Frenkie de Jong

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khaled_a_d

Senior Member
Who represents this other extreme? Can you quote or mention anyone, who has said, that we need ONLY midgets? The most recent BBZ shitshow is about Rabiot vs De Jong, where he claims that Rabiot is great physical warrior, while de Jong is "choir boy" in comparison, which is bullshit. Everyone also seem to like Vidal despite him being the physical. Rakitic gets a flak because he's donkey, not because he's physical. What else? Don't remember anyone saying that we should play with Arthir, Coutinho, Puig or smth.

Won't go out there to bring quotes (too much effort) but gasgas has done that few time iirc. at least in suggestions of a midfield of midget players.
Many also said things like "this is barca, we shouldn't care of players height" etc
 

Gnidrologist

Senior Member
From what i see for the most part it was just a huge strawman. Contrarianism for its own sake. Also ignoring the fact that Arthur, for example, can't be bullied off the ball despite being short, while Rakitic looses it constantly (or makes half field back passes) because of shit agility and awareness.
 
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D10S_JC

Member
The height argument is utterly ludicrous. The one who’s obsessed with tall players should watch Mourinho’s Man Utd.
 

BBZ8800

Senior Member
I have no idea whether some guys here have ever played foorball in their life (those who are claiming that physique is not important).

This is my personal experience after playing football on an amateur level for 30 years against 1000s of teams and footballers.

I am 186cm tall, of an average strength and of average pace.

Now, a few of my close friends are 194-195cm tall and both are very strong and muscled. They have like 10-15 kgs more than me, and playing against them was a pain.
For example, I would lose every aerial duel against them.
Every 1 vs 1 duel with some pushing, shielding, fight with shoulders were tough for me.

So, these guys usually bullied me in physical duels and whenever I had the ball, my thought was: fuck it, I need to avoid a contact with this guy.
And either outplay him with 1-2s or pass the ball to a teammate who is covered by some lighter guy.

On the other hand, I was able to bully majority of 170-175-180cm guys, UNLESS if they had physique like Gattuso or Vidal.

In short, in areal duels, in tackles, light pushing, battles with shoulders and similar: I was bullied by 194cm guys, and I bullied easily 170-180cm guys, without making a foul.
I was just bigger and stronger and won majority of close or physical duels.

On the other hand, 194cm tall guys were slow.
They weren't dangerous in dribbles and counters.
But they were good defenders and pivots.

On the other hand, I have a friend who has a physique of Denis, 170cm tall, light, skinny.
But he is a good dribbler and extremely fast.
If he got a ball on the counter, he would dribble past me easily.
But against a parked buses, he didn't have any room and he was just bullied and dispossessed easily by any physical guy.

So, similar to a real life, shorter guys are usually lighter, more mobile, faster, have a better acceleration.
And their feet work is faster.
But they suck against a tight defense/parked buses.
They suck in attacking and defensive aerial duels.
And they suck in tight duels/tackles/pushing.

Taller and stronger guys:
Were very slow. They had a slow acceleration. Their off the ball movement is weaker.
Their feet work and dribbles (paired with a poor acceleration and slower body movements) were poor to average.
But they are better in aerial duels, tackles, defending, bullying, shielding the ball with the body.

But also, if you would put too many tall guys in a team, they would lack speed, creation, movement.
If you would put too many light, short, fast guys in a team, they would have a lot of movement and counters.
But often they would be bullied by more balanced and slightly stronger teams.

And then, I remember some posters from this topic who claimed that it is irrelevant in defense whether you are man marked/tackled/pushed by someone like Paulinho/Vidal/Rakitic or by Denis/Coutinho.

Denis and Coutinho can play a pressing.
But they can't man mark/tackle/push/bully opponents like Paulinho.
Imagine if you were a footballer.
If you had the ball and you are trying to create something, would you rather be man marked by Coutinho or Paulinho/Vidal.
I would try to avoid Paulinho/Vidal when I would have the ball.

This is why I would like some balance.
For example, a lot of guys have asked for this lineup:
Busi, Arthur, Cou - Dembele, Suarez, Messi.

Now imagine playing in a CL against Juve, Bayern or Atletico.
Who will kick, tackle, push, bully our opponents?
Messi, no way.
Suarez, somewhat
Dembele, no way.
Coutinho, a good joke.
Arthur, he can fight on the ground, not in the air.
Busi, tall but quite physically weak.

So, in that lineup, our 2 strongest guys are a 31 years old Suarez and a short Arthur.

Now, let's go back to pre-Pep era, when Barca was physcally more balanced.
2006 Chelsea:Barca:
Ronaldinho, Etoo, young Messi - Motta, Edmilson, Deco

Motta, strong like a bull
Edmilson, also
Ronaldinho, stronger and a bigger fighter than majority of current guys
Etoo, a crazy fighter and a defender
The only meh guys were Messi and Deco.

So, we had a team where 4 guys can fight and not get bullied.
Today we have only Arthur and somewhat Suarez in that lineup.

Why am I calling for Rabiot and some stronger players?
Look at our future team:
Dembele, light as a mosquito
Cou, only slightly stronger than Denis
Puig, no comment
Frenkie, not the strongest guy on a planet either
Alena, meh
Arthur, okish on the ground

So what, we will have one guy in a team who is able not to get bullied by majority of defenders?

Again, I don't want a team full of tall players, because they would suck, lack speed, lack movement, lack dribbles.
Just like on amateur level.

But I will repeat, imo, Arthur-Cou-Busi is defensively not good enough for a Cl level.

Or combinations for the future: Frenkie, Arthur, Puig/Alena.
That team can play only against technical and light teams like Ajax, Porto, Arsenal.
Or against opponents who are way inferior technically, like bottom table La liga teams.

Btw, Ndombele guy is an upgrade also since he has both technique, height, pace and muscles.
 
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Jombi

New member
Stop with the Puig and Alena nonsense. There is a 1% possibility that they will be starters for us.

They are not the future starters for us.
 

Vilarrubi

New member
From what i see for the most part it was just a huge strawman. Contrarianism for its own sake. Also ignoring the fact that Arthur, for example, can't be bullied off the ball despite being short, while Rakitic looses it constantly (or makes half field back passes) because of shit agility and awareness.

+10000
 

Gaudi

Senior Member
I don't know about current mood here but from what I saw (limited though) I wouldn't pay 150 mills for him and de Ligt.
 

DonAK

President of FC Barcelona
Ruud Gullit saying Barca should sign him too. Also said he's physically good enough to play in the Premier League.
 

messi2140

6racies Xavi
He is quite impressive going forward ,very technical aswell (just scored and assisted today against Graafschap). He does really need to work on his defensive aspects though , especially his positioning.
 

kollegah

Senior Member
imo overhyped.
if he didnt play at ajax and wouldnt be wanking about barca in every interview, no one would notice him.
madness to pay like 75mio for him.
 
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