Frenkie de Jong

[Andrew M]

The number of excuses for Frenkie is very strange. "He plays out of position, he drank tea instead of water, he put wrong hair gel" Bla bla. Why don't I see these excuses for other players? Truth be told, Frenkie has been displaying performances very similar to Andre Gomes in the past few months.
Busquets will not be dropped because he is the best DM on the team, and the only midfielder that can make a pass through the defensive block. I think at the moment Vidal and Busquets should be starters, the 3rd spot should be rotated with the others depending on the match.

You reckon it's psychological with Frenkie or something else?

 

[boixos]

You reckon it's psychological with Frenkie or something else?

Much more likely Frenkie is a limited player. I wrote about this earlier, but [MENTION=26713]MrBombastic[/MENTION] recent post here summarizes it well. He is just not as good as Barca fans think he is.

 

[Raketa10]

Much more likely Frenkie is a limited player. I wrote about this earlier, but [MENTION=26713]MrBombastic[/MENTION] recent post here summarizes it well. He is just not as good as Barca fans think he is.

Yeah they are all limited. Griezmann, De Jong, Coutinho. All of them are trash players. It has nothing to do with the amount of chaos in Barca. It's not like all of them already showed they can perform on the highest level.

 

[DonAK]

A person from Rotterdam not rating a former Ajax player.

I am shocked!

 

[Mrgandalf]

The number of excuses for Frenkie is very strange. "He plays out of position, he drank tea instead of water, he put wrong hair gel" Bla bla. Why don't I see these excuses for other players? Truth be told, Frenkie has been displaying performances very similar to Andre Gomes in the past few months.
Busquets will not be dropped because he is the best DM on the team, and the only midfielder that can make a pass through the defensive block. I think at the moment Vidal and Busquets should be starters, the 3rd spot should be rotated with the others depending on the match.

Comparing him with Gomes? There is big possibility that you are high. Or maybe I'm wrong and Gomes was the best ucl midfielder back then. Definitely One of us is high.

 

[Cool]

Van Gaal spoke about the possibility of fielding De Jong as CB next to Pique, what do you guys make out of this idea?

Umtiti cant defend with one knee, Lenglet passing range as Barca center is not up there, plus, we can field Vidal as third midfielder instead of trying to play him in this weird wing role that is not doing anyone good.

 

[evilhita666]

It's Van Gaal, there's nothing to make out of it, hahaha...

 

[jamrock]

Piss poor but the horrible tactics didn't help

 

[mc_lovin]

You can see with Frenkie the exact problem you get playing with 4 midfielders: theres simply not enough space in midfield for all of them, some of them need to take wide positions or lurk at the opponents defensive line. Thats why in a classic 4-4-2 the RM and LM are winger/midfield hybrids.

Putting 4 midfielders in our starting 11 is just a half measure, we need to depend on younger talents like Frenkie and Arthur - have them play the main roles in midfield. When you put Vidal or Rakitic in they will just take the comfortable positions. A younger player wont shine in a setup like this, gets forced into unnatural midfield positions and wont (or more precisely cant) take any responsibility.

Another problem is our offensive line creating zero space for our midfield. Suarez or Dembele would have really helped with that. With Messi and Griezmann the opponent can basically pick how high he wants to defend without repercussions.


But, hey, maybe hes just shit. Thats the easy (and populist) thing to say without the need of deeper analysis.

 

[BBZ8800]

But, hey, maybe hes just shit. Thats the easy (and populist) thing to say without the need of deeper analysis.

He is not shit.
But it helps if players are able to adapt.

With your logic, there will always be an excuse.
Either a coach is bad (EV is bad, Setien is bad).
Or a teammate in midfield is not perfect.
Or someone in the offensive line is not perfect or not moving enough.
Or we don't have enough of width.
Or a RB is bad in the attack.

A team will never be perfect (except in 2008-2011).

 

[mc_lovin]

He is not shit.
But it helps if players are able to adapt.

With your logic, there will always be an excuse.
Either a coach is bad (EV is bad, Setien is bad).
Or a teammate in midfield is not perfect.
Or someone in the offensive line is not perfect or not moving enough.
Or we don't have enough of width.
Or a RB is bad in the attack.

A team will never be perfect (except in 2008-2011).

Nope, you can still rate players individually . For example Frenkie is athletic, works hard and is technically great--> hes potentially a worldclass player (Andre Gomes for example is not).

And its not about perfection, but about the different roles pretty much any team requires: CF, wingers and so on. Can you honestly name Messis, Frenkies, Griezmanns or Vidals role in the clasico? If not its not really fair to judge.

If we played

Winger - CF - Messi
CM-DM-Frenkie

for example it would be much fairer to judge him. And I dont necessarily talk about all time great CFs, LWs or anything, talented la liga proven players would do (Ferran Torres for example). With a Griezmann-Vidal-Messi frontline only guys like Iniesta at his best would make a difference.


The only issue I have with Frenkie is that hes a DM/CM hybrid, so we need to find a proper role for him - or he adapts to DM/interior for us - not impossible given its his first year. But that requires patience, something guys like you dont have.

 

[Calidad]

You can see with Frenkie the exact problem you get playing with 4 midfielders: theres simply not enough space in midfield for all of them, some of them need to take wide positions or lurk at the opponents defensive line. Thats why in a classic 4-4-2 the RM and LM are winger/midfield hybrids.

Putting 4 midfielders in our starting 11 is just a half measure, we need to depend on younger talents like Frenkie and Arthur - have them play the main roles in midfield. When you put Vidal or Rakitic in they will just take the comfortable positions. A younger player wont shine in a setup like this, gets forced into unnatural midfield positions and wont (or more precisely cant) take any responsibility.

Another problem is our offensive line creating zero space for our midfield. Suarez or Dembele would have really helped with that. With Messi and Griezmann the opponent can basically pick how high he wants to defend without repercussions.


But, hey, maybe hes just shit. Thats the easy (and populist) thing to say without the need of deeper analysis.

So much sense in one post.

 

[omidferoz]

you can see talent in a player even when he plays bad. This guy got talent. He is being used as freaking attaking midfield but he is more of a DM. If you put busquet as an attacking midfield he will suck as bad.

 

[MrBombastic]

you can see talent in a player even when he plays bad. This guy got talent. He is being used as freaking attaking midfield but he is more of a DM. If you put busquet as an attacking midfield he will suck as bad.

It's just deception.
There are a lot of players who have talent.
Talent doesn't make you a worldclass player.
If people are judging players on the base of 'made up' subjective potential instead of his actual performances
they already admitting that he is not as far as they wish him to be.
So their brain immidiately starts to judge him on this subjective potential to fit their presupposition that he is a great player in their mind.
That's how a lot of brains work to fit to their presupposition.
It's very simple. You said that his best position is DM.
Can I ask you this question.
Which qualities should a DM of Barcelona. Name me all qualities that are essential for the position at Barcelona? We have to set up first the criteria if we want to be objective otherwise you get politics because of taste.

 

[omidferoz]

It's just deception.
There are a lot of players who have talent.
Talent doesn't make you a worldclass player.
If people are judging players on the base of 'made up' subjective potential instead of his actual performances
they already admitting that he is not as far as they wish him to be.
So their brain immidiately starts to judge him on this subjective potential to fit their presupposition that he is a great player in their mind.
That's how a lot of brains work to fit to their presupposition.
It's very simple. You said that his best position is DM.
Can I ask you this question.
Which qualities should a DM of Barcelona. Name me all qualities that are essential for the position at Barcelona? We have to set up first the criteria if we want to be objective otherwise you get politics because of taste.

A barca DM should have Vision(he has), Passing(he has), Mobility(he has), Strenght(he has), Getting the ball from defence to attack(he has), Position himself properly(he has), Speed( pretty fast for a Dm), quick one two with teammates(he has), high workrate(he has). he lacks a bit of dribbling and long balls ala Alonso. I cant fathom that people dont rate him that high. Every other club in the world will line up to pick him up for their midfield.