Are you as hopeful for his future as you are Samper, Munir, Adama, and Halilovic? Or do you only care about him succeeding because he kind of played for Everton?
Gerard Deulofeu
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Are you as hopeful for his future as you are Samper, Munir, Adama, and Halilovic? Or do you only care about him succeeding because he kind of played for Everton?
BarcaJack
New member
I hate to say this but IMO Gerard seems to lack confidence when passing balls. He looks comfortable (sometimes too comfortable) when making all his skill moves but looks really nervous when trying to play a Don-like through ball. Maybe he knows that he's not good at passing and he's having some issues.
BBZ8800
Senior Member
He isn't ready yet even for games against Celta and Rayo.
He still has a lot to improve.
In teamplay, passing and defensive duties.
If you have the best player in the world, like Messi, who works less defensively, a team can survive with that.
But when your youngster who is currently the 5th choice in your attack, doesn't work too much for the team, that isn't good enough and can cost you even against the weakest La liga teams.
He will have to improve a lot to earn anything more than being a super-sub for the last 10 Minutes against weaker teams.
Simply put, I disagree with you.
You don't just ask a player to improve in order to get more minutes. Giving a young player more minutes is how you help them improve.
Alarcón
New member
Yeah you seem to know it better than Lucho. Please tell me how giving a youngster more minutes will improve his work rate.
BBZ8800
Senior Member
I know.
But too many of our fans here think that the young players improve in a Football manager style.
1. you have a young gem
2. you give him minutes in the first team
3. you let him play more and more
4. he becomes a new Xavi or Messi, for example
Look around on some other topics. Probably 90% of our fans think that we have 7-8-10 awesome gems in our youth team, and that we "only" need to give them a chance and minutes in the first team and that's it.
In reality, 1 out of our current 10 gems/players will turn into something.
I say into something.
They may turn into a new Xaxi, or "only" into a new Bartra.
9 out of 10 will end up as Cuenca, Montoya, Roberto, Jds, Muniesa or like 1000s of others, players who ended much worse.
Look, the jump from juniors to seniors is huge.
And 90% of junior gems NEVER turn into anything.
Not because they weren't given an opportunity. But because they weren't good enough to turn into something on the highest level.
I am not that "romantic" about La Masia players and I don't believe the hype about the current gems that much.
I don't believe that anything will come from Montoya, Sergi Robertoo, Deulofeu and other guys.
Currently, I have hopes only about Sergi Samper, that he could turn into a starter one day.
Deulofeu, he is "already" 20 and he will get only misery amounts of Minutes this Season.
I just don't see how he will turn into a starter in Barca one day.
Anything can happen, but imo, he will just end up as another Gio dos santos, Bojan, Tello etc.
He has some nice skills, but a lot of flaws also.
Also, we have a lot of players on his position, plus I am not too sure that he is "smart enough" and that he will ever be able to "cure" his selfishness.
But I will be extremely glad if I am wrong and if he ends up as a Barca's starting 11 material one day..
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Richard.H
Senior Member
I agree with you BBZ. The jump from junior level to first division, pro level is quite the change. It's something that not only takes talent, but also the right mental game.
What is also disappointing is that a youth player can look extremely promising now but as he gets closer and closer to first team action, he can crack under pressure. Bojan is a good example of that. It's something that takes a lot of mental fortitude.
I remember Carles Planas and Romeu being extremely hyped too. Both are very talented players and play for great clubs now. However, to play for Barca is a ridiculous jump in talent. It's truly the pinnacle of club football and many fans really don't understand just how hard it is to get a spot in the A team.
What is also disappointing is that a youth player can look extremely promising now but as he gets closer and closer to first team action, he can crack under pressure. Bojan is a good example of that. It's something that takes a lot of mental fortitude.
I remember Carles Planas and Romeu being extremely hyped too. Both are very talented players and play for great clubs now. However, to play for Barca is a ridiculous jump in talent. It's truly the pinnacle of club football and many fans really don't understand just how hard it is to get a spot in the A team.
BBZ8800
Senior Member
Yes
People remember only Xavi, Iniesta, Busi, Pedro, Valdes.
But they forget at least 20 huge talents like Gio dos santos, Gai Assulin, Bojan who were destined to be the next big thing.
And then 100s of players who had lesser talent than Bojan and Gio, and of course, they haven't turned into anything although the press and the fans expected huge things from them.
I am a Barca fan since 99', and in the last 15 years I have seen too many talents who haven't turned into anything, and honestly, 1 out of 10 is about the right ratio to expect something from our players.
And then, when I see some posts when people say: we will have a future team consisted of Bartra, Montoya, Ie, Deulofeu, Adama (and we only need to give them a chance and some minutes) etc, you have to ask yourself:
-- this is either an extremely young Barca fan
-- or he is playing a Football manager slightly too much
-- or he is just extremely romantic and not objective about our young players
But those fans will also learn. They just need to remember the current generation of "gems" and look back in 2016 or 2017 to see how many of them turned into anything.
Richard.H
Senior Member
Yep, definitely. It's just that I hate seeing forum members here treat a player like dirt just because he couldn't make it to the A team. For most of the young players, even playing for a club like Celta is a great achievement.
Also, I forgot about Gai Assulin. He was hyped so much. I even remember the comparisons to Messi. Another great example of how much pressure these youngsters have.
What are you on about? His work rate is far from the only thing he needs to work on. Even if he pressed and tracked back as much as Pedro he'd still need improvements in his passing and his teamplay, and that's something that will improve with game time. I never said I know it better than Lucho, but he does seem to understand the concept of letting young players play, as that's kind of been his thing. Unless you're trying to say all of the young players he's managed had all improved in practice prior to him deciding to utilize them in league games, which would be a funny, but obtuse, declaration.
I don't know what your problem is but the fact remains that if he sits on the bench because his passing isn't on a high enough level he might as well pack his bags and go to a team actually willing to use him.
KingMessi
SiempreBlaugrana
Give the kid a break. He's probably been the best attacker on every team he's played at so far (La Masia teams and Everton) and his mentality is understandable based on that. With one year at Everton he's already immensely improved his work rate and team play, and I think he'll continue to improve training under Lucho. You guys are a bit too harsh on our Barca B youngsters too. They've obviously got talent. But for every talent, even for the likes of Xavi/Iniesta/Messi/Puyol 10-15 years ago, it's never certain that they'll make it. You just have to be optimistic. Realism is no fun.
Alarcón
New member
That wasn't the point. Lucho specifically said that he didn't give him more minutes because he has to do more in defense. Work rate isn't something that improves with more playing time. If the coach isn't happy with someone's work rate in a team that relies heavily on pressing, quickly recapturing the ball and players helping each other out in every part of the pitch, then that's that. Deulofeu has to work harder to justify more playing time.
I get what you're saying completely. It's been clear to me that we won't be starting a CL final with all La Masia players one day, despite the hype being on enough players for us to actually do that if they did live up to it. Their time developing with Barca B is probably the most critical stage of their development. Even if only 1 or 2 out of our current gems becomes the star we've been hoping for, that's good enough for me. Say from our current list of promising talents kids like Munir, Adama, Grimaldo, Ie, Bagnack, Suarez, Halilovic, Dongou, Sandro, and Deulofeu all fail, leaving Samper and Rafinha (I list Rafinha because he's already turning into that success) as our only up and coming gems to live up to the hype.
I'd be overjoyed.
A half of me is able to objectively look at these youngsters and see them for all their attributes, both positive and negative. I am well aware most of them won't. I'd love to see them do well and will convince myself that they will, but I'm not exactly having high hopes. Even now I'm hoping Sergi Roberto shows us something to make him being at the club justifiable despite him obviously not showing us anything. I wish Munir had scored those goals against Napoli because it would have impressed Lucho even though I know he needs several years with Barca B regardless.
From what I've been told and from what I've seen of Lucho, I'm sure Deulofeu will get more minutes than the average person seems to think he will. Lucho wouldn't demand he come back from loan if he wasn't going to work on his development himself. Yeah, he has flaws and all, but he's still 20. Imagine how much of a different player he'd be at 25 if given time to develop.
I think that if any one attacker is going to break into this team, it's Deulofeu. His quality in the attack is just too good. His selfishness seems to be down to the circumstances he finds himself in. I didn't see a very selfish Gerard when he was playing with the Spain NT, despite it being just a friendly that he traditionally likes to show off in. It will be hard to justify giving him minutes over Neymar, Messi, and Suarez, but these three can't play every game. The key for him is to get a spot higher in the pecking order than Pedro, but in order to do that he'd have to work on his tracking back, which he and Lucho have said time and time again they're working on. He is already better in the attack than Pedro and would likely bring us more goals if given an equal amount of playing time.
But even if he doesn't make it in the long run, I wouldn't be sad. As you've pointed out, I've seen quite a fair share of youngsters at this club fail to impress. If they don't live up to the hype it's just "Oh well". Time to move onto another one. However, I believe Deulofeu has what it takes to make it at this club, if not now, then in 3-4 years in the future.
Then yes, I agree with you on that. At one point at Everton he was making last man tackles in his own box, though, so he's certainly shown he's capable. I'd think that if anyone can make him work more defensively, Lucho can. I'm sure he even knew Gerard had that issue when he brought him back on loan, as they'd worked together previously. I'm optimistic that his defensive work rate can and will improve over time. Even if it takes him all season, he'll improve.
BBZ8800
Senior Member
Ok
But the trick is that Barca is a very expensive business.
For example, if you have Messi worth 200 Millions, Neymar worth 100 Millions, Suarez worth 80 Millions etc, then you just "must" win trophies every Season to get good deals from sponsors and similar things.
There is no room for bad Seasons and for too many experiments.
Now, in some Seasons, like in the last Season, 1-2 points decided La Liga champion (Atletico, Barca, Real).
Now, giving 10-20 Minutes to youngsters is possible only when you have injured players and you don't have other options, or when you are winning 3:0 in the 70th or 80th Minute. Or in the cup matches, Group stage CL matches, friendlies and similar.
If the matches are tight, like 0:0, 1:0, 2:1 and similar, you can't gamble and play with youngsters in the last 10-20 Minutes.
Further, you can't just start La Liga match with Bartra, Montoya and Deulofeu on the field, for example.
There is a huge chance that something will go wrong and that you will end a match with 1:1, for example.
My point is, from 10 youngsters that we have today:
-- the 1st will be worth 0 Millions in 3 Years
-- the 2nd will be worth 0 Millions in 3 Years
-- the 3rd will be worth 2 Millions in 3 Years
-- the 4th will be worth 2 Millions in 3 Years
-- the 5th will be worth 2 Millions in 3 Years
-- the 6th will be worth 2 Millions in 3 Years
-- the 7th will be worth 3 Millions in 3 Years
-- the 8th will be worth 5 Millions in 3 Years
-- the 9th will be worth 5 Millions in 3 Years
-- the 10th will be worth 20 Millions in 3 Years
Now, people will say: Ok, even if one turns out to be a 20 Million player, that is awesome.
But the thing is that people would want to give chances to all 10 players, to see which one or two of them will develop into a 10 or 20 M player.
But let's go back to the beginning, Barca is a huge and expensive business.
You don't have too much time and opportunities to test which one out of 10 players will turn into something.
To "earn" minutes in the first team, a player needs to be:
1. a beast in younger teams
2. very good whenever he gets a chance in the first team
3. and then he needs some luck and a lot of other factors to continue showing good displays whenever he gets a chance in the first team
Imo, Deulo hasn't done anything special in Everton, he hasn't earned a chance there to play for Barca in this moment.
And then, if he plays poorly/average/or if he is lacking is some crucial skills in Barca's friendlies, there isn't too much time/opportunities left for him
= and that is totally understandable
The team can't give an unlimited amount of chances to players like Deulo, Montoya, Roberto and similar if they don't deliver anything special when they play.
You can't waste Messi's, Iniesta's or Suarez's best years and lose trophies by 1-2 points because you wanted to see whether something will turn out from players like Deulo, Montoya and similar.
-- so, you can't gamble with players worth 400 or 500 Millions, to see whether one young player will be worth 0, 2 or 10 Millions
You get 2-3-5-10 chances:
= you either have to show IMMIDIATELY that you deserve more chances
= or you will have to go on loan and be the best player there to earn yourself another chance at Barca.
Deulo hasn't done anything in Everton and is showing nothing special in Barca's preseason friendlies.
Just a small reminder, Xavi and Messi looked much better whenever they had an opportunity with the first team.
Deulo currently looks more like another Tello than a new first team player.
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