Trickykid
Active member
Sorry man, but that's just bullshit. He produced good displays and even better numbers as a LW. Go look up the stats, if you like.
Gerard Deulofeu
- Thread starter IraqiCulé
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Sorry man, but that's just bullshit. He produced good displays and even better numbers as a LW. Go look up the stats, if you like.
BBZ8800
Senior Member
if you think i'm lying go rewatch Arda Vs Hercules from last season, you'd destroy your monitor
For some time, Arda played better than Neymar as a LW (me and Neyhaters, for example).
A team played more fluid, kept the possession more, had more control, played more like Barca and we were winning 4:0 on average.
If you expect crazy skills, crazy dribbles and Omg moments, then Arda sucks as a Lw.
If you are satisfied with Pedro level displays as long as a team is playing fluid and dominating, then he was very good.
Deulo probably has way more skills, but also, with him and Neymar on wings, don't be surprised if majority of our actions will end in 10-15 seconds either with an awesome assist or with a lost ball after dribbling attempt through 4 defenders.
Each playing style has pros and cons.
Guys who love control and possession will say that it is better when we keep the ball and waiting for a perfect moment to make a final pass.
Also, we are less prone to counters, since logically, we are keeping the ball all the time. And our midfielders don't get tired too much.
With run and gun football, like in the last season, you get more dangerous actions when a winger dribbles successfuly past opponents (but that doesn't happen more often than 1 in 3 or 1 in 4 actions). But in other 3 out 4 actions, you get lost balls, counters against your team, chaotic system, wingers needing to run like crazy up and down 50 times per match to recover a ball which they lost too easily, our granny midfielders running up and down all the time to recover all those lost balls and to prevent counters and then having to run up again to make themselves available in our attacking action (which will again be finished in 15 seconds after a crazy suicidal winger action through 4 defenders).
In short, it is not that simple that Arda is a horrible winger, that wingers who are good in dribbles are awesome, that the worst kind of Deulo will be better than Arda/Pedro type of a player for our team etc.
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serghei
Senior Member
That part is down to the manager. Lucho for example, I'm pretty sure about that, gave the ball to Neymar out wide and told him to dribble through 1, 2, or 3 opponents. That's one of the few ways Lucho knew how to create superiority, by trying to exploit Neymar incisiveness with his dribbling. This sometimes worked against the smaller teams, but resulted in too many turnovers against any worthy opponent, especially in CL.
The manager makes the tactics. The players usually follow the tactical plan. Almost all the time. You make it sound as if Neymar knows only one way to play and he will play the same way no matter what the manager has to say. Which is false. For example, in 2014-15 he had way fewer moments where he took actions on his own. Actually, he was more off the ball making runs, than on the ball trying to dribble his way through from the left wing inside.
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God Serena
New member
He produced good numbers but that was entirely in the first half of the season and many of those good performances came against either minnows, or in dead rubber matches. I remember at one point people were hailing him for like 7 goals in 3 games or something but he scored two hat tricks against one of the bottom table teams and a Bayer Leverkusen side who were knocked out of the CL no matter what the result was in the final group stage round. In the second half of the season Arda went back to providing very little if anything from LW and his poor attitude played a large role in that.
Trickykid
Active member
Considering how few games he managed to start as LW, I don't agree at all that that is was mostly against minnows or in dead rubber matches he accumulated his numbers. According to Whoscored he started just 7 matches as LW - mainly during the beginning of the season when Neymar didn't play. 2 super cup matches against Sevilla and a rough league match as San Mamés. He had 3 goals and 2 assists in the matches (and 1 goal and an assist against Betis in between). His LW matches were scattered from the on, meaning its of course tough to produce on a regular basis. Hopefully Deulo can top that, but at his worst he sure a hell won't, which was promoted my initial reaction.
God Serena
New member
In the start of the season he did play very well, but that lasted for such a short time. After Neymar returned his performances at LW did only come in easier or meaningless games and that's where he put up his most impressive statistics. After the turn of the calendar year he stopped being able to even reproduce those stats even against weak opposition and it looked more like it was because he had no interest, rather than because he was struggling. That's been the general story of Arda's career here, imo. Most of his screw ups or lackluster showings both in midfield and up top are due to him simply not giving a fuck, which is worse than anything, imo.
Granted, Deulofeu at his worst wouldn't be able to top Alex Song at CB, so yeah, hopefully that's not the player we see when it comes time for him to step out there for us.
Trickykid
Active member
Again, his starts as LW were so few that your argument about him only really producing against bad teams simply doesn't hold up.
I do agree, however, that most of his problems in regards to lackluster performances later on during the season stem from his weak psyche, which is one of quite a few reasons I want him sold.
God Serena
New member
In reality it's probably more 50/50 as far as the quality of his opposition is concerned, it's just the games against weaker opponents do such a huge job of padding his stats that were done in those games that it makes them seem more numerous to me (Pretty sure he was our 4th highest goal scorer last season almost entirely from November-December when most of his games were easy). Regardless, it's all a moot point because his horrendous attitude takes precedence over everything. I want to vomit every time I see someone blindly hating on a player so much they resort to saying they'd rather see Arda play there instead of them. Whether it's a La Masia graduate failing to make the step up to the top level, a new signing struggling to find his feet, or a prospective signing working his ass off for his club and dreaming of playing for us one day, the thought of someone preferring to see a player who would rather take a nap in our goal and collect his paycheck than defend our badge rubs me the wrong way. In that sense I'd rather watch Deulofeu at his worst try in earnest to win us over than see Arda's name even make the bench.
Trickykid
Active member
In reality we don't disagree that much. The main gulf being your usual rabid hateful views on the players you dislike, and my perhaps too lenient stance on said players.
I would actually prefer to bet on Deulo being able to outperform the Turk, but if Valverde manages to kick Arda into mental and physical shape, I doubt it's going to happen.
springfield
New member
Turan was great at Atletico, he played there mostly as a so called winger, but you can't compare it at all with Barcelona. Barcelona has a totally different playing style. And while Barcelona typically plays with a 433, Atletico almost always play with a 442. It's totally different in tacticts and what you need to do, it requires other skills. That's probably also the reason why he had some difficulties at Barcelona.
iniesta_8
New member
God Serena
New member
This guy would get injured only because of traveling anyways
You must think you're in the Vermaelen thread or something, cuz Deu is not injury prone like that.
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