Gerard Piqué

[jamrock]

VVD is widely considered the best CB of the current era (2018 going forward) so I see no shame if we say that he can replace Pique in the 2011 team.
Doesn't say much really, Pique wasn't more lucky than most world class players, who had to play along other world class player in order to stand out.
He won it all, multiple times and under different good coaches. That count for something.
And Pique has also made his own luck, moving away from Barca looking for better chance, then going on loan to Zaragoza and performing as one of Liga best Cb at the age of 19.
Then refusing to renew for Manu when they were the best team in the world, and returning to Barca whom many thought were declining, and he was still able to earn a starting place there.

Excellent.

 

[JamDav1982]

Typical British shite. Acting like a butcher on the field elevates your status to a good footballer.

Waiting for the "master of the dark arts" narative to pop up.

Typical Romanian shite having chip on shoulder and no idea what British folk prefer as defenders.

Most folk would rate Rio Ferdinand or Terry as best British CB of last 30 odd years and both were very good on ball.

While VVD is held up by many as best CB the EPL seen because of how he plays both on and off the ball.

Pique and Godin are completely different players.. Godin could never have played as part of that peak Barca side expected to play on half way line and take ball out.

Pique couldnt have been the penalty box defender Godin was either but one style was an important part of some of greatest ever teams and it wasnt Godin.

 

[jamrock]

I don't know how anyone can seriously make out a serial winner like pique at his best to be just another defender.

 

[jamrock]

Who is a top class different in the game right now outside of VVD that's comparable to someone like even godin at his best?

VVD is no doubt great but also not much competition compared to when pique, Ramos, puyol, vidic, Ferdinan, godin, the list can keep going, VVD is great but he also stands out so much because most CB these days aren't that great

 

[JamDav1982]

Pique will go down as all time great for his trophies but will never be in discussions of top CBs of all time.

He was a part of the greatest ever team and played part in that.. since that team broke up Pique has had a hell of a lot of woeful games in CL etc when asked to do more defending and without those team mates.

Wouldnt have him close to type of player VVD has been in recent years at any point in his career.

 

[jamrock]

If their is one thing I like about the American sport culture is their emphasis on winning, football picks & chooses who it wants to add that requirement to.

Pique has won every single thing a player has any business winning while being excellent in all of them.

If someone asked me, which was asked earlier, Am I replacing VV & Pique with Allison & VVD in our greatness team ever, The answer is helllll fucking nooo

why? Because one set are proven serial winners,while playing against better opposition I might add, while the others struggle to get it over the line, not to take away from VVD & Allison's great Talent, but if you not turning that talent into winning then what are we even talking about?.

Could Valdez have made that save against Vini jr? Idk maybe not but I'm backing Valdez to go crazy in a final more than Allison, winning matters.

If I'm picking two starting CB in my team to go out and win, that I have personally seen play multiple games, it's Ramos - Pique every single time, VVD & the likes ain't getting In, VVD is gonna play like a beast but still not show up in the same way they did when it really matters.

Talent VVD & Allison > pique & Valdez not by much especially in the case of pique vs VVD.

But winning? pique, Valdez,>>>>>>>>>> those other two.

Winning matters and those two didn't luck their way to winning not did their team win inspite of them.

VVD has to do it 2,3,4 times then a couple of more time before I ever consider him to replace pique in anything.

 

[JamDav1982]

'Winning' is not the whole story.

It is about level shown on the pitch.

It matters who you play with. When VVD has played with best midfield of all time, best player of all time and best front line of all time then it becomes a relevant point to compare on that side of it in terms if who is better player.

Plenty players have better resumes for trophies than Maradona/Brazilian Ronaldo etc.

Mascherano has won more CLs than VVD, Ferdinand, Vidic etc.

Pedro has better trophy cabinet than Ronaldinho... there are ton of examples.

Only Barca fans will consider Pique up there with likes of VVD and other top defenders. Will never really get mentioned in disucssions in general.

 

[jamrock]

Maradona & Ronaldo one the one thing that should be one, they reached the mountain top.

Talented as they are If they don't win the WC their legacy is vastly different I don't think anyone would deny that.

Because while winning is definitely not the entire story, it's the biggest part.

People act like at his best pique wasn't playing against better attackers than now & locking them down just the way VVD is doing now.

VVD is definitely great though always want to make taby clear.

 

[JamDav1982]

Maradona & Ronaldo one the one thing that should be one, they reached the mountain top.

Talented as they are If they don't win the WC their legacy is vastly different I don't think anyone would deny that.

Because while winning is definitely not the entire story, it's the biggest part.

People act like at his best pique wasn't playing against better attackers than now & locking them down just the way VVD is doing now.

VVD is definitely great though always want to make taby clear.

Nah changing argument.

It is about who 'wins' more then Pedro is more a winner than Ronaldinho. Who won more CLs and both won the WC.

It is lame argument and doesnt back who is the better player.

Masch as good a he was is nowhere near as good a CB as many of those that won less than him.

If it is about 'reaching the top' then likes of Alves/Maldini have a ton of full backs that have won WC and nowhere near their standard.

Griezmann has more WCs than Messi..It means nothing.

Pique was never playing like VVD has recently. He was part of better team and played his role in that but not to same level. If anything Masch was better than him for long spells at Barca when both CBs.

Also what would hold Pique back in that argument for me is the amount of god awful performances and him lacking as a leader as other top defenders are.

Jordan Henderson isnt a bigger winner of better player than Stevie Gerrard because he won the league when Gerrard couldnt. The team around these players matter.

 

[jamrock]

If VVD wins 1 more CL, 2 more league titles I'm taking him over pique in Barca's greatest XI at least he'd then show that all is talent isn't just for show.

I doubt he'll get that though.

 

[Fati_Future_BallonDor]

Football is still a team sport, trophies are one factor among other factors. Most people would say peak Messi is the best of all time even without winning the WC. Liverpool was Loserpool before VVD came to them, with him 1 PL title, 2 very close and 3 cl finals in 5 years. He isnt a GOAT defender but still his impact has been more than impressive.

 

[Fati_Future_BallonDor]

If VVD wins 1 more CL, 2 more league titles I'm taking him over pique in Barca's greatest XI at least he'd then show that all is talent isn't just for show.

I doubt he'll get that though.

Dude Pique played in Pep era + with peak MSN, Liverpool isnt near to that team. Trophies argument doesnt make sense in this case.

 

[jamrock]

Nah changing argument.

It is about who 'wins' more then Pedro is more a winner than Ronaldinho. Who won more CLs and both won the WC.

It is lame argument and doesnt back who is the better player.

Masch as good a he was is nowhere near as good a CB as many of those that won less than him.

If it is about 'reaching the top' then likes of Alves/Maldini have a ton of full backs that have won WC and nowhere near their standard.

Pique was never playing like VVD has recently. He was part of better team and played his role in that but not to same level. If anything Masch was better than him for long spells at Barca when both CBs.

Also what would hold Pique back in that argument for me is the amount of god awful performances and him lacking as a leader as other top defenders are.

Nah not changing anything said multiple times pique won while not being a water carrier or is teams winning inspite of him, he was a vital part of winning.

So miss me with the X average player has won more than X great player, that one was too easy to see coming.

Which is again why I made it clear he Won while playing great in all those winning teams he was not just average player or anything like that.

 

[JamDav1982]

Nah not changing anything said multiple times pique won while not being a water carrier or is teams winning inspite of him, he was a vital part of winning.

So miss me with the X average player has won more than X great player, that one was too easy to see coming.

Which is again why I made it clear he Won while playing great in all those winning teams he was not just average player or anything like that.

He was an important part.. maybe the 6/8th best player in those teams but played his part.

It isnt about trophies as so many examples will show.

Mascherano won while playing 'great' as did Pedro who played better in CL win than Ronaldinho ever did.

Pedro has better trophy cabinet than Ronaldinho is one example of many and of course it is an easy come back that is the point.

For Liverpool there are a ton of players with better trophy cabinets than Gerrard who were nowhere near the player he was.

Pique was important part and suited the system but not an all time great CB even despite his trophies. Making out he was shite and Godin better is nonsense he was a good defender who played his part in very good teams.

There are two sides for him.. some of worst performances will see from CBs in CL also.

 

[jamrock]

He was an important part.. maybe the 6/8th best player in those teams but played his part.

It isnt about trophies as so many examples will show.

Mascherano won while playing 'great' as did Pedro who played better in CL win than Ronaldinho ever did.

Pedro has better trophy cabinet than Ronaldinho is one example of many and of course it is an easy come back that is the point.

For Liverpool there are a ton of players with better trophy cabinets than Gerrard who were nowhere near the player he was.

Pique was important part and suited the system but not an all time great CB even despite his trophies. Making out he was shite and Godin better is nonsense he was a good defender who played his part in very good teams.

There are two sides for him.. some of worst performances will see from CBs in CL also.

5th or 6th is fair tbh, that's about where I'd have him as well, and in my opinion the 5th/6th best player in the greatest team ever keeps his place over VVD until VVD can turn his talent into wins.

Again tho not comparing average players who won to great players, clearly Gerrand is better than Henderson you don't compare to the two even if Henderson has won more, though not by much Liverpool are loser afterall lol.


Same for Pedro vs Ronaldo but that one is just a bad comparison if we being real.

the difference between pique & VVd isn't the difference between the previous two mentioned.

If we gonna compare Gerrand to Lampard, then we have to take winning into consideration.