Ibrahimovic or Bojan?

Ibrahimovic or Bojan?


  • Total voters
    36

Metaphysical

Bomb Dropper
Great argument Meta, that's a new tactic.

it's a not a tactic, it's a response. "cut our losses"? bitch please.

but okay, let's do this.

Well seen as Cesc seems likely to arrive you can then add Iniesta to the LW options.

no you can't, his scoring ratio is pathetic. despite all his talents he can't shoot for toffee.

Is Zlatan going to accept sitting on the bench next season as well?

so he sat on the bench for, what, 4 games at the end of the season (after an injury he never seemed to fully recover from) and that's your basis for next season's tactics? did the end of last season give you a clue that pedro would feature so heavily this season? or about the 4231 pep would adopt?

no.

last summer pep asked for zlatan and a replacement for henry. he only got one of those. we made do through the season thanks to some tactical improvisation from pep, and pedro stepping up was vital, but he didn't replace the threat of henry despite all his goals.

this summer, pep has finally gotten his henry replacement. so I'm gonna go ahead and guess we'll be looking at a trident of messi-zlatan-villa to start the season in the base 433. throughout the campaign, however, I expect there will be plenty of rotation.

Messi will always play. That leaves two positions for Villa Ibra Pedro Bojan and quite possibly Iniesta. You can't accomodate all of them.

yes you can.

pep likes rotation - this is obvious from 08/09. we got LUCKY this season that messi picked up 0 injuries and xavi was rarely out for more than a week. I'm not talking about insane rotation, just something similar to 08/09.

following a world cup messi and villa will need rotation. we will be able to rotate the forward line adequately while not losing quality. this will not only keep players physically and mentally fresh, but will keep us more unpredictable and more difficult to plan for.

and then there's injuries which throw a spanner into any works.

Plus the fact Ibra is losing value all the time. We should cut our losses.

this is just nonsensical. "cut our losses" what losses? I mean, what great affront to fc barcelona did zlatan ibrahimovic commit? us getting KO'd from the copa del rey where he, coming on a sub, scored one of our two goals in the tie? or how about the CL? where not only did he not "chock" the KO rounds, but he scored crucial away goals in stuttgart and london to get us to the semi-final where, while not fully fit, he could not get the best of arguably the best-drilled defence in the CL this season? who else stepped up in those games? where was messi? he wasn't even half-fit! what was his excuse?

at xmas all but the hardiest of haters were cooing like smitten girls because zlatan was in good form. his performances dipped in the second half of the season, largely influenced by injury, and now he's such a liability that we should cut our losses?

try not to have such a short-term memory.

sweet jesus.
 

Barcaman

Administrator
Staff member
Glad to see people are acknowledging Bojan as our best #9.
Pep trusting him in the final games of the season says much about the confidence he gained with our manager, despite being overlooked for the most part of the season. Villa will teach him few tricks of the trade and in few years we could have a world class striker in Bojan.
 

Cal-FCB

Wurzeltron
Anyway. Iniesta has and will play at LW Meta. His scoring ratio is irrelevant, he will be pushed out there at times. We can't play a midfield of Cesc-Xavi-Iniesta against well organised, physical teams, let alone top ones. Plus having Cesc in midfield means a far greater goal threat from there, which means Iniesta's impotency doesn't matter.

It's hardly short term memory considering Ibra has barely found form since Christmas. Before then he was ELECTRIC and a major influence in every game. His form has been generally woeful, his link up play sloppy, movement nonexistent and finishing wasteful. Yes he's scored some important goals but so did Samu over many seasons before. This injury excuse is bullshit, Xavi has been outstanding despite his torn calf.

In 4 games against Inter he has done absolutely nothing, and was replace by Bojan in two of them (followed by losing his place for the remaining key games of the season). He was bought to unlock bus defences because the likes of Messi, Xavi, Iniesta struggle. Seen as Andres was injured they were able to focus on on Leo and Xavi, it was the perfect chance for Ibra to step up. He did not. He's a 65m striker, he should not just be there 'as an option'. We'll get some money back for him now. Another average season and another year older, what sort of value will he have then?
 

Olsend

New member
This is so hard when such class team has so many class acts :D I rly can't make my mind up how we could use all our players in right ways. I heard Ibra last year was some kind of supporting striker for Inter, how does such formation looks?

And CAL-FCB we should learn from RM, Arjen and Wesley are smiling a lot. We should be a team and get best from our players, since Ibra has to offer us a lot - we keep him. Pep will have to decide how to use our material best and to do no harm to any of our players' career. We will be even better next season, relax there.
 
Last edited:

Metaphysical

Bomb Dropper
Anyway. Iniesta has and will play at LW Meta. His scoring ratio is irrelevant, he will be pushed out there at times. We can't play a midfield of Cesc-Xavi-Iniesta against well organised, physical teams, let alone top ones. Plus having Cesc in midfield means a far greater goal threat from there, which means Iniesta's impotency doesn't matter.

It's hardly short term memory considering Ibra has barely found form since Christmas. Before then he was ELECTRIC and a major influence in every game. His form has been generally woeful, his link up play sloppy, movement nonexistent and finishing wasteful. Yes he's scored some important goals but so did Samu over many seasons before. This injury excuse is bullshit, Xavi has been outstanding despite his torn calf.

In 4 games against Inter he has done absolutely nothing, and was replace by Bojan in two of them (followed by losing his place for the remaining key games of the season). He was bought to unlock bus defences because the likes of Messi, Xavi, Iniesta struggle. Seen as Andres was injured they were able to focus on on Leo and Xavi, it was the perfect chance for Ibra to step up. He did not. He's a 65m striker, he should not just be there 'as an option'. We'll get some money back for him now. Another average season and another year older, what sort of value will he have then?

your entire argument is based on a first principle that zlatan won't start.

which is an assumption based on the run-in to this season.

and, well, that's not any proof of anything.

you also assume we'll play xavi, iniesta and cesc at the same time. what your proof is for this, I don't know. it's been made quite plain that pep likes rotation and pimping out the first XI is not the way to win trophies as reial madrid found out this season.

regarding injury; we saw even at the start of the season that 6'4 tank-like zlatan takes time to get up to full fitness. if he's carrying a knock (which he blatantly was) then he's gonna struggle even more. plus there had to be a confidence issue given how much people were shitting on him, as though his outstanding first-half never happened and he'd been shit all along. I know xavi's been outstanding despite his injury but for fucks sake it's xavi. he's the best midfielder in the world.

also what eto'o's goalscoring has to do with anything I don't know. so both players have scored important goals? okay? eto'o didn't leave because of any footballing failures - although it should be noted that eto'o has a useless CL SF record (did he fail to step up as well?) and last season only notched 2 goals in the rounds leading up to the final, both of which were fairly inconsequential. zlatan, meanwhile, scored crucial away goals in the EF and SF to keep us alive in the tourney. yeah eto'o's scored twice in 2 finals, but how many finals has zlatan played in? just sayin'...

(actually it's quite clear we need a SF goalscorer since we usually meet a bus team at this stage which rules leo out. pedro could be it but I'm unsure, ditto a fully-fit zlatan. my money's on villa).

also you completely distort the facts of the matter to make your point. inter were able to focus on all three of our main threats. this is a real bone of contention for me, because people see the inter games as great zlatan failures and a reason for why he should be sold. when frankly pep made a mistake which had us fall right into jose's trap, and there was a key deficiency in quality in one area of the team which basically fucked it all up.

I'll spell it out so there can be no confusion:

FIRST LEG
i. because henry is a waste, pep played the 4231 in the sansa.
ii. because pep played the 4231, messi played centrally but slightly aligned to the right.
iii. because of messi's position, he was walking into the double-piviot of cambiasso and motta, who blocked his path to goal.
iv. deeper, sneijder buzzed around xavi, preventing him for finding the freedom he'd like.
v. this left the half-fit zlatan isolated against both lucio and samuel, who beat up on him all day. he was not free of focus at all.

SECOND LEG
i. pep played 433, huzzah!
ii. messi was on the right, but was negated largely by zanetti and cambiasso.
iii. dani, who can help messi find space, was tracked/blocked in his forward runs by chivu (later eto'o), but also zanetti. on the other side maxwell was blocked by eto'o (later milito).
iv. xavi was again tracked by sneijder, but also zonally blocked by cambiasso and motta (later chivu), as was keita.
v. this AGAIN left the half-fit zlatan isolated against both lucio and samuel, who beat up on him all day. he was not free of focus at all. what on earth are you talking about?! lucio and samuel mugged (a fully-fit) drogba coz chelsea didn't support him, we let them do the same to zlatan.
vi. HOWEVER this set-up, with zlatan and leo being double-teamed, did leave pedro relatively 1v1 against maicon, a player he roasted earlier in the season. and it was quite notable that pedro saw an awful lot of the ball. what was also notable was that he did sweet crap all with it. and barely even once attacked maicon or tried to take him on. constantly cutting back and crab-passing with his right-foot. pedro, for me, was the greatest failure of the second leg because the system was set-up for HIM to get the 1v1 and he couldn't fucking deliver. this was when I knew we needed villa.

it should be noted that pep did change things. he brought on jeffren and bojan and pushed piqué up-front, moving messi further back into midfield and putting pedro on the right. pedro didn't do much there, either, but messi (away from the argentines) found space easier and did manage that glorious pass to bojan, where he fluffed the header. on the left jeffren took maicon on and beat him a few times, validating that decision. and piqué found more space than zlatan because he couldn't be double-teamed by the CB's as bojan was up in the box now as a second presence. the 424 squared inter's defence and midfield up 1v1 with our attackers/midfielders/FB's and instantly more space was found. as much as pedro fucked up, pep did too by not switching to this much sooner than he did.

sorry, it's just people blaming zlatan when pep's tactics left him 2v1 against the best drilled CB pairing in europe while not even fully fit, is just ridiculous. fucks me right off. and I love pep 10000 times more than I like zlatan, so you know this isn't a question of bias.

anyway, you just seem to have a bunch of opinions (we'll start all 3 of xavi, cesc, iniesta... zlatan will be on the bench... he'll have an average season... etc.) and are trying to make arguments to fit them.

but because they're artificial arguments made to fit these opinions, none of them work.

better to just say you want him to leave and be done with it, rather than try to justify yourself with a faux objectivity.
 
V

Valon

Guest
I guess he was half fit most of the second part of the season...
 

Metaphysical

Bomb Dropper
I guess he was half fit most of the second part of the season...

nah he was straight-up crap 'til the stuttgart game (or thereabouts). I dunno what happened but it's like he never recovered from the celebrations of winning the CWC or somethin'.

he got himself back on track 'til injury fucked his season up, though. damn shame.
 

adil_909

New member
your entire argument is based on a first principle that zlatan won't start.

which is an assumption based on the run-in to this season.

and, well, that's not any proof of anything.

you also assume we'll play xavi, iniesta and cesc at the same time. what your proof is for this, I don't know. it's been made quite plain that pep likes rotation and pimping out the first XI is not the way to win trophies as reial madrid found out this season.

regarding injury; we saw even at the start of the season that 6'4 tank-like zlatan takes time to get up to full fitness. if he's carrying a knock (which he blatantly was) then he's gonna struggle even more. plus there had to be a confidence issue given how much people were shitting on him, as though his outstanding first-half never happened and he'd been shit all along. I know xavi's been outstanding despite his injury but for fucks sake it's xavi. he's the best midfielder in the world.

also what eto'o's goalscoring has to do with anything I don't know. so both players have scored important goals? okay? eto'o didn't leave because of any footballing failures - although it should be noted that eto'o has a useless CL SF record (did he fail to step up as well?) and last season only notched 2 goals in the rounds leading up to the final, both of which were fairly inconsequential. zlatan, meanwhile, scored crucial away goals in the EF and SF to keep us alive in the tourney. yeah eto'o's scored twice in 2 finals, but how many finals has zlatan played in? just sayin'...

(actually it's quite clear we need a SF goalscorer since we usually meet a bus team at this stage which rules leo out. pedro could be it but I'm unsure, ditto a fully-fit zlatan. my money's on villa).

also you completely distort the facts of the matter to make your point. inter were able to focus on all three of our main threats. this is a real bone of contention for me, because people see the inter games as great zlatan failures and a reason for why he should be sold. when frankly pep made a mistake which had us fall right into jose's trap, and there was a key deficiency in quality in one area of the team which basically fucked it all up.

I'll spell it out so there can be no confusion:

FIRST LEG
i. because henry is a waste, pep played the 4231 in the sansa.
ii. because pep played the 4231, messi played centrally but slightly aligned to the right.
iii. because of messi's position, he was walking into the double-piviot of cambiasso and motta, who blocked his path to goal.
iv. deeper, sneijder buzzed around xavi, preventing him for finding the freedom he'd like.
v. this left the half-fit zlatan isolated against both lucio and samuel, who beat up on him all day. he was not free of focus at all.

SECOND LEG
i. pep played 433, huzzah!
ii. messi was on the right, but was negated largely by zanetti and cambiasso.
iii. dani, who can help messi find space, was tracked/blocked in his forward runs by chivu (later eto'o), but also zanetti. on the other side maxwell was blocked by eto'o (later milito).
iv. xavi was again tracked by sneijder, but also zonally blocked by cambiasso and motta (later chivu), as was keita.
v. this AGAIN left the half-fit zlatan isolated against both lucio and samuel, who beat up on him all day. he was not free of focus at all. what on earth are you talking about?! lucio and samuel mugged (a fully-fit) drogba coz chelsea didn't support him, we let them do the same to zlatan.
vi. HOWEVER this set-up, with zlatan and leo being double-teamed, did leave pedro relatively 1v1 against maicon, a player he roasted earlier in the season. and it was quite notable that pedro saw an awful lot of the ball. what was also notable was that he did sweet crap all with it. and barely even once attacked maicon or tried to take him on. constantly cutting back and crab-passing with his right-foot. pedro, for me, was the greatest failure of the second leg because the system was set-up for HIM to get the 1v1 and he couldn't fucking deliver. this was when I knew we needed villa.

it should be noted that pep did change things. he brought on jeffren and bojan and pushed piqué up-front, moving messi further back into midfield and putting pedro on the right. pedro didn't do much there, either, but messi (away from the argentines) found space easier and did manage that glorious pass to bojan, where he fluffed the header. on the left jeffren took maicon on and beat him a few times, validating that decision. and piqué found more space than zlatan because he couldn't be double-teamed by the CB's as bojan was up in the box now as a second presence. the 424 squared inter's defence and midfield up 1v1 with our attackers/midfielders/FB's and instantly more space was found. as much as pedro fucked up, pep did too by not switching to this much sooner than he did.

sorry, it's just people blaming zlatan when pep's tactics left him 2v1 against the best drilled CB pairing in europe while not even fully fit, is just ridiculous. fucks me right off. and I love pep 10000 times more than I like zlatan, so you know this isn't a question of bias.

anyway, you just seem to have a bunch of opinions (we'll start all 3 of xavi, cesc, iniesta... zlatan will be on the bench... he'll have an average season... etc.) and are trying to make arguments to fit them.

but because they're artificial arguments made to fit these opinions, none of them work.

better to just say you want him to leave and be done with it, rather than try to justify yourself with a faux objectivity.

lol meta has way too much time on his hands
 

Beast

The Observer
2000 words of EXCUSES

Even Pep the main culprit in buying Ibra woke up and benched him and the first order of business was buying a consistent goal scorer ..but no Meta has to find a new excuse for Zlatan

here is a nice one from Gabi about Pep and the signings .. enjoy

Pep Guardiola shows his genius with ability to get more from great team


Well before Lionel Messi’s goal gave Barcelona a 3-0 lead at home to Valladolid yesterday that all but sealed La Liga, something was obvious. This is an outstanding team, perhaps one of the greatest most of us have seen.

The record books will tell you that they won La Liga with a record-breaking 99 points while winning the Club World Cup and Spanish and European Super Cups. Tinpots they may be — usually to those who don’t win them — but you still have to go out and beat your opponents. On the flip side they will also register Barcelona’s shortcomings, namely that they went out in the round of 16 of the Copa Del Rey, to Seville, and, most notably, the semi-finals of the Champions League, to Inter Milan.

A layman might look at this and suggest that Barcelona took a step back this year compared with last. After all, they won fewer trophies and failed to reach the Champions League final. But, in fact, Barcelona’s greatness this season lies in its evolution in the way that there was a transition into something different.

Last summer Pep Guardiola avoided the biggest pitfall facing successful coaches. He understood that there is no such thing as standing still at the top. You can change and take a chance on progressing or you slide backwards. There is no such thing as: “If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it.” And when you change, you necessarily expose yourself to mistakes and criticism. But the measure of a coach is how he handles that criticism and resolves those mistakes. Dmytro Chygrinskiy was one such mistake. A 6ft 4in hulk of a defender who cost £22 million, he was supposed to add depth to the back four and, ideally, become a regular by mid-season. Instead, he turned out to be a colossal dud and Guardiola was forced to move to a Plan B. With Carles Puyol showing signs of age, trusting him in central defence could have been problematic.

Well before Lionel Messi’s goal gave Barcelona a 3-0 lead at home to Valladolid yesterday that all but sealed La Liga, something was obvious. This is an outstanding team, perhaps one of the greatest most of us have seen.

The record books will tell you that they won La Liga with a record-breaking 99 points while winning the Club World Cup and Spanish and European Super Cups. Tinpots they may be — usually to those who don’t win them — but you still have to go out and beat your opponents. On the flip side they will also register Barcelona’s shortcomings, namely that they went out in the round of 16 of the Copa Del Rey, to Seville, and, most notably, the semi-finals of the Champions League, to Inter Milan.

A layman might look at this and suggest that Barcelona took a step back this year compared with last. After all, they won fewer trophies and failed to reach the Champions League final. But, in fact, Barcelona’s greatness this season lies in its evolution in the way that there was a transition into something different.

Last summer Pep Guardiola avoided the biggest pitfall facing successful coaches. He understood that there is no such thing as standing still at the top. You can change and take a chance on progressing or you slide backwards. There is no such thing as: “If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it.” And when you change, you necessarily expose yourself to mistakes and criticism. But the measure of a coach is how he handles that criticism and resolves those mistakes. Dmytro Chygrinskiy was one such mistake. A 6ft 4in hulk of a defender who cost £22 million, he was supposed to add depth to the back four and, ideally, become a regular by mid-season. Instead, he turned out to be a colossal dud and Guardiola was forced to move to a Plan B. With Carles Puyol showing signs of age, trusting him in central defence could have been problematic.

So Guardiola created a defensive scheme that masked Puyol’s inadequacies and highlighted his strengths, effectively forming a defensive triangle with his fellow centre half, Gerard Piqué (who in the meantime has grown into one of the best in the world at the position), and whichever player was sitting deep in midfield — usually Sergio Busquets or Yaya Touré.

Given that Barcelona usually had the bulk of possession and faced opponents who played a lone striker, the defensive “triangle” meant that the side were rarely short-handed, while ensuring Puyol was hardly ever left to defend one-on-one. At the same time, this co-ordinated defending exalted Puyol’s pace and, especially, his ability to read the game.

Barcelona’s biggest signing of the summer was also their biggest flop.

Zlatan Ibrahimovic was acquired in exchange for Samuel Eto’o , a package approaching £70 million. Ibrahimovic ended the season on 20 goals — ordinarily not a terrible return — but his apparent sluggishness and lack of movement ultimately led to him being dropped for the title run-in. Again, that is something that took courage of the kind Guardiola has displayed throughout his time in charge at the Nou Camp.

With Thierry Henry also on the slide (he would finish with only four league goals) and Andrés Iniesta injured (he would not start a game after March) this meant that Barcelona entered the crucial weeks of the season without three quarters of their front four. Admittedly, it helped that the one quarter that was unchanged was Messi, who finished the year with 47 goals in all competitions, surpassing Cristiano Ronaldo’s feat of 42 two years ago.

Guardiola found his solution. He added more muscle to the midfield, handed Xavi Hernández more attacking responsibility and inserted Pedro Rodríguez and, eventually, Bojan Krkic into the front three. What Barcelona lost in size, they gained in sharpness and movement. Which was exactly what they needed at the time. Because that’s the other quality of great coaching. Once you identify a solution, you need to be aware that it’s not permanent. A front line of Bojan (5ft 7in), Messi (5ft 6in) and Rodríguez (5ft 6in) is not viable in the modern game, unless you leave La Liga and join the “Smurf League”. But in a certain time and place — Spain, May 2010 — it was exactly what was needed.

Getting to the top is tougher than staying there. It’s a cliché, but it’s true. Guardiola has had to adapt and make adjustments. Odds are, he will have plenty more to sort out over the summer. But the way he has handled things thus far, you would not bet against him. Not because his bold moves succeeded — they didn’t — but because once they failed, he quickly readjusted, adapted and found a solution.
 

Ryan_Cule

barça amor d mi alma
Only what matters , really is scoring ! You are a CF & you know what`s your work. Bojan at his age shows much much more consistency than of Ibra ! Bojan works hard & creates ! And with Villa around , the formation we would play , Bojan would be a great sub . But quoting Taxi , ` FCB is looking for a solution @ Ibra` ...that doesn`t mean we are selling Ibra, but if Cesc is sure, Ibra must go. Stuffing the squad like this is a bad thing when you have great home talents .

BOJAN BOJAN BOJAN !
 

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