Ivan Rakitić

[BBZ8800]

as for CL, you only care about the trophy count at the end of the day, regardless of how it was achieved. that's antithetical to being a barca fan IMO. I agree that the team and Messi have been bad in CL last 3 seasons, but if they give 100% and put on a great fight next season, while falling short of winning it, I would be content. you'd probably still be peddling these 20 paragraph posts on what went wrong while continually changing the goalpost.

Giving a fight is subjective.
It means something different for each of us.
Bayern 2013
Atletico 2014
Atletico 2016
Juventus 2017
Roma 2018

For me, we played below our level in every single match.

The last time when we fought was 2010 and 2012.
After that it was all downhill and deja vu each new season.

About how are you happy if we give a fight and lose, I am happy for you.
Some others will be happy with a beautiful play and a defeat also.
Me, on the other hand, I would rather take an ugly play, lucky wins and winning a Cl in undeserved way than losing in a brave way.
A win is a win.

But imo, for fans who grew up in Pep's era, they think that a win alone is not enough.
It needs to be achieved in an orgasmicly beautiful way.
Fine, if we can win in that way, fine.
If not, any kind of a win is good enough for me.

You see, I started to follow Barca in a Cl in 1994.
94, 95, 96, 97, 98, 99, 00, 01, 02, 03, 04, 05.
Imagine a kid watching Barca for 12 years in a row and losing in all kinds of crazy unlucky ways year after year.
And all you want to see is one Cl win, nothing more.
Yet, we couldn't even reach a final after 1994'.

When you grow up in that way, you don't ask for a beautiful play.
All you want is a trophy.
Even with Edmilson, VanBommel/Motta as starters.

So, your remark how Barca's fan should aim for a beautiful play... that's your opinion.

I watched a club when we were a disaster.
And imo, having Messi and winning only 3 real Cls with him is somewhat an underachievement.
A lot of players are guilty for that.
But, imo, people will now find scapegoats in Lucho, Ev and Rakitic.
While Messi, Busi and Iniesta could habe done way more based on their potential and skills.
We could have won more, imo.
And please don't reply with a luck part when RM managed to win 3 in a row without too much sweat, tbh.

But, we are offtopic.

 

[KingLeo10]

Giving a fight is subjective.
It means something different for each of us.
Bayern 2013
Atletico 2014
Atletico 2016
Juventus 2017
Roma 2018

For me, we played below our level in every single match.

The last time when we fought was 2010 and 2012.
After that it was all downhill and deja vu each new season.

About how are you happy if we give a fight and lose, I am happy for you.
Some others will be happy with a beautiful play and a defeat also.
Me, on the other hand, I would rather take an ugly play, lucky wins and winning a Cl in undeserved way than losing in a brave way.
A win is a win.

But imo, for fans who grew up in Pep's era, they think that a win alone is not enough.
It needs to be achieved in an orgasmicly beautiful way.
Fine, if we can win in that way, fine.
If not, any kind of a win is good enough for me.

You see, I started to follow Barca in a Cl in 1994.
94, 95, 96, 97, 98, 99, 00, 01, 02, 03, 04, 05.
Imagine a kid watching Barca for 12 years in a row and losing in all kinds of crazy unlucky ways year after year.

When you grow up in that way, you don't ask for a beautiful play.
All you want is a trophy.
Even with Edmilson, VanBommel/Motta as starters.

So, your remark how Barca's fan should aim for a beautiful play... that's your opinion.

I watched a club when we were a disaster.
And imo, having Messi and winning only 3 real Cls with him is somewhat an underachievement.
A lot of players are guilty for that.
But, imo, people will now find scapegoats in Lucho, Ev and Rakitic.
While Messi, Busi and Iniesta could habe done way more based on their potential and skills.

But, we are offtopic.

Barca has a long standing tradition of playing beautiful football dating back even before cryuff's days. So it's not a recent invention or expectation due to the success under pep. We routinely paid top money for superstars that didn't always translate into CLs/european cups. I'm just saying to view things holistically. your only aim is CL count (you openly say Liga doesn't matter so I'm not sure if there can ever be a middle ground on this).

 

[serghei]

Me, on the other hand, I would rather take an ugly play, lucky wins and winning a Cl in undeserved way than losing in a brave way.
A win is a win.

That's basically anti-Barca man. You expect the club to throw everything else aside in desperation to win the CL at any cost? There are more important things than the CL count.

 

[khaled_a_d]

About how are you happy if we give a fight and lose, I am happy for you.
Some others will be happy with a beautiful play and a defeat also.
Me, on the other hand, I would rather take an ugly play, lucky wins and winning a Cl in undeserved way than losing in a brave way.
A win is a win.

Football is an entertaining industry, that is something that is very important to understand.
It isn't a history class, winning without playing beautifully isn't good.
It simply takes the whole industry from its meaning

 

[serghei]

Exactly. Barca wouldn't be probably the most popular club at the moment without its brand of football being what it is.

 

[kattanib]

Football is an entertaining industry, that is something that is very important to understand.
It isn't a history class, winning without playing beautifully isn't good.
It simply takes the whole industry from its meaning

To build on this I doubt people will remember the Madrid team that won 3 champions in 4 years as the greatest team In thier history or some shit like that. They will remember Ronaldo though. The likes of Casimero, Navas, Varane, Marcelo, Cravajal and Benzema can never be considered the greatest. That is an insult to the likes of Raul, Casillas, Roberto Carlos, Mekalele, Hierro ... etc

 

[BBZ8800]

Football is an entertaining industry, that is something that is very important to understand.
It isn't a history class, winning without playing beautifully isn't good.
It simply takes the whole industry from its meaning

I am not saying that I don't like beautiful play, but there are priorities.
And a trophy IS more important than a beautiful play.

In order from the best option to worst, in my eyes:
1. A win + a beautiful play
2. A win + a mediocre play
3. A win + a horrible football
4. A defeat + a beautiful football
5. A defeat + a mediocre football
6. A defeat + a horrible football

So, if we can achieve no1, awesome.
If not, move to no2 etc.

On the other hand, some here would take a defeat and playing beautiful over a win with mediocre or horrible football.

Again, I would also rather have both.
But if that is not possible, then a win is more important than aestethics.

Plus, we never actually play horrible.
Even EV's Barca in our worst days was still one of the teams who play a nicer football in Europe.

 

[George_Costanza]

what all non sense are you spouting . 2014-15 Barca style was nowhere Close to Pep's style . it was much direct and reliant on counters against Big teams . Xavi was able to adjust to that style and played direct football compared to slow passing style under Pep . Iniesta too was excellent in that system . That system was wrecked because Alves left and there was none to create in Rw wing When Messi drifts to center , that leaves Rakitic babby sitting for Sergi who was extremely vulnerable against decent attacks .

You are right Raki would have been benched under Pep because he had two goat midfielders in Xavi and Iniesta . still he had to sign Saidu keita ,a Rakitic profile player and had Yaya toure in his first two seasons ( A destroyer ) .Shows the importance of players like Rakitic in any system . Even if it's a bench role

The first season Barca under Lucho was still the Barcelona we are familiar with. Of course, it was more direct that's why I said it was tweaked! Lucho benefited from Guardiola system's of attacking football philosophy of the club, but going somewhat more direct when required. Xavi still played the same and influenced Lucho to keep the tiki-taka (And Messi's criticism to Lucho also helped), that's why we had a successful season and as soon as he left our midfield kinda collapsed. It took Iniesta a while to adapt to his new role under Lucho, he wasn't that impressive in 2014/15 season because he had to drop deeper and further away from Messi and closer to Busquets, while previously he operated close to the box and Messi.

 

[soul24rage]

I am not saying that I don't like beautiful play, but there are priorities.
And a trophy IS more important than a beautiful play.

In order from the best option to worst, in my eyes:
1. A win + a beautiful play
2. A win + a mediocre play
3. A win + a horrible football
4. A defeat + a beautiful football
5. A defeat + a mediocre football
6. A defeat + a horrible football

So, if we can achieve no1, awesome.
If not, move to no2 etc.

On the other hand, some here would take a defeat and playing beautiful over a win with mediocre or horrible football.

Again, I would also rather have both.
But if that is not possible, then a win is more important than aestethics.

Plus, we never actually play horrible.
Even EV's Barca in our worst days was still one of the teams who play a nicer football in Europe.

I agree with you. If I had a choice, I would choose #1 anytime. However, if it's choosing between Chelsea (bad football + winning trophies) and Arsenal (beautiful football + not winning trophies), I would go for Chelsea's strategy. The feeling of winning trumps the feeling of beautiful football for me everytime. But everybody is different so this topic is a classic case of "agreeing to disagree"

 

[khaled_a_d]

I am not saying that I don't like beautiful play, but there are priorities.
And a trophy IS more important than a beautiful play.

Again, it is entertaining industry,so by definition win isn't more important than beautiful football.
You rather win than entertain, ok. But that isn't the fans perspective. That isn't football perspective
That is a limited, generally unpopular opinion

 

[Arizona Scott]

Neither Messi nor Rakitic share the largest blame last few years Barca blew chunks in some really big stretches of CL ties. They are not chiefly why some not very potent teams for Serie A were able to score 3 goals in pivotal matches, nor why we gave up 4 to PSG in one match (though overcame with brilliant offense, motivation and pressure). Maybe they had a greater role in the Atleti loss, but Atleti is always the toughest nut in the world to crack and sometimes you just got to scratch a 0-0 result at their place.

In short I am thrilled Barca have both of these two--think both have pretty much played their guts out to the degree fatigue allows (which is partly a manager and roster issue), and seem to have strengthened the squad around them.

 

[SeloBarca]

<-- Real Madrid way of playing football is that way.

No thuggish longball football in my Barcelona please.

 

[Joan]

Again, it is entertaining industry,so by definition win isn't more important than beautiful football.
You rather win than entertain, ok. But that isn't the fans perspective. That isn't football perspective
That is a limited, generally unpopular opinion

Don't think you're right. Most Barca fan on this board would prefer to win anyhow but lose playing beautiful football, I believe. We had a similar poll. Same goes for every club I imagine. Also think boards rate winning higher. That's why bus parking coaches have jobs or pricks like Mourinho. I'd say it's all about winning in the end.

 

[BarcaMessi]

A top team needs everything. Not just trying to pass or dribble the ball into the net.

Recent UCL failures have proven that.

 

[Voldblake]

I am not saying that I don't like beautiful play, but there are priorities.
And a trophy IS more important than a beautiful play.

In order from the best option to worst, in my eyes:
1. A win + a beautiful play
2. A win + a mediocre play
3. A win + a horrible football
4. A defeat + a beautiful football
5. A defeat + a mediocre football
6. A defeat + a horrible football

So, if we can achieve no1, awesome.
If not, move to no2 etc.

On the other hand, some here would take a defeat and playing beautiful over a win with mediocre or horrible football.

Again, I would also rather have both.
But if that is not possible, then a win is more important than aestethics.

Plus, we never actually play horrible.
Even EV's Barca in our worst days was still one of the teams who play a nicer football in Europe.

Yea and we played no.6 against Roma. A really terrible defeat.

we weren't playing just possession football under Ev . Our defenders were comfortable even without the ball and didn't had much possession against Chelsea compared to past . That's not creating false narrative . It's a fact . You don't need to conduct a poll to find out who all are shitting on Rakitic ; just need to observe .

Yes we were. We were the highest possession team in Europe and that's how we play, keep the ball safe and maintain a defensive shape. It's a fact as well.

90% is total bullshit. No need to observe.