Ivan Rakitić

[BBZ8800]

Messi won us matches v juve, chelsea, atletico, real. Rakitic was only great in the Real games of those. Both Messi and Rakitic were flops VS Roma. So this is just absurd, as are some of your comments about "CR7 insane warrior strength". That insane warrior mental strength didn't win shit when Barca was at the top of the world between 08 and 2012. So, this MIA and mental strength arguments are out of place and purely supported by cherry picked time periods/stats.

I meant, in a Cl.
The whole team and Messi goes missing too often.

I surely wasn't talking about Cdr, and Atletico in La liga.

Paris, Rome, Torino, Atletico twice in a Cl, well you can count a lot of MIA matches for Messi, Iniesta, Busi, everyone.

About Cr vs Messi, it works both ways:
Messi was winning Cls only with a prime team.
Cr7 won CLs also with a prime team.

Yet, Cr7 won 4 out of 5 with his prime team, and 3 in a row.
Messi won only 2 out of 4.

I know: luck will be eternal answer.

We are going offtopic.
Cold reality: cr won more on a biggest stage than Messi.
Iniesta, Busi, Messi are all gone missing too often on a big stage, not only Raki.

Our last 4 knockout matches away:
Psg 0:4
Juve 0:3
Chelsea 1:1
Roma 0:3

1:12 in total.
For a team with Messi, Iniesta, Busi.
Something is just wrong.
NOT only poor scapegoat Rakitic and even EV.

Stop kidding yourselves, Busi is more important than Rakitic to our team.

Shouldn't be surprised when on this board people will go as far as saying that Raki has been better than Lionel fucking Messi. That is the level of delusion around here.

Busi was an important player in 2009-2012 when we played a heavy possession football, the same as Spain.

Today, in 2018, he is not THAT important player.
He is just "a player", one out of 11 guys on a field today.

My reasoning is simple:

I won't play a 4-4-2, but if they do I would choose Busquets because I would prefer the control he provides and play Coutinho and Vidal. Both bring more pace and Vidal brings the the defending ability of Rakitic + aggression and more dynamism. You replace Rakitic's output, but retain some level of control in the midfield so it isn't Klopp level rock and roll suicidal midfield football.

It's not me shitting on Rakitic or glorifying Busquets like he's some untouchable demigod right now. Nor am I clueless, it's an opinion, deal with it. One of the reasons we've struggled is because we've played two slow DMs with limited mobility. Don't need two, can only afford one such player in the midfield.

I've already pointed out how Busquets might decline earlier than Xavi or Iniesta and that we might need to replace him sooner and the same goes for Rakitic. Both of these two players have been among our worst players in key, high intensity games the last 2-3 seasons and that's a problem.

I won't overlook Rakitic's flaws in my opinion just because he's sacrificing himself. He's sacrificing himself for Barca and I commend him for that. Great player and seem to be a good person too, but not the first player that has sacrificed his potential for the sake of the team, nor will he be the last one.

I was talking about 433.
Arthur can play a Cdm and bringing the ball from our box, and then Raki is a Cm, who will do a dirty work. Coutinho, one winger and Messi are 3 creatove guys.
Or, Rakitic could be a Cdm, and Arthur will help in bringing ball out of our box.
Even Roberto played awesome as a Cdm during preseason and we had way more pay and mobility.

Call me crazy, but I am looking forward when we won't have granny Iniesta and granny Busi in our team anymore.
Iniesta was a burden in the last 2 years.
Busi is coming into that era, imo.
I think that a team will be equally as good/bad with or without Busquets in a team.

We will get more pace, mobility, pace in defense, more aggression, a player with more testosterone etc.

I'd guess that about 95% of Barca fans would take Busqs over Rakitic . I dread the day that Busqs retires .

When he plays , we play

95% of our fans think that playing with short, technical players, through the middle (like in 2008-2012), without muscles, pace, stamina, aggression, thugs, mental strength is still the way to go in 2018'.
90% of our fans think that Dembele will succeed at Barca and similar.

I wouldn't take an opinion of majority seriously.
A lot of guys are too young, casual football fans, biased, too emotional, too positive and naive towards young gems and similar.

But Barca shouldn't have to be resorting to using gap-filling midfielders , that's the point .

What is your solution for 2018?
Copy 2009 and play a good old, slow, sterile, possession football with Messi as a false 9 and hope for the same results as back then even though it stopped working for both Spain and Barca looong, loong time ago.
For a reason.

The problem is that Busi is hugely overrated in this forum and he lives on his past glory. If you dare to criticize him you are classified as an enemy while criticizing Rakitic is welcomed. I agree that he was perfect in 4-3-3 with Xavi and Iniesta but today when tiki-taka is no longer alive he is not a top class player anymore.

True.
Even Iniesta was praised too highly in the last 2-3 years, even though he was horrible to average for me.
Whenever he played, he offered SOME nice moves here and there.
He was slow like a granny, he was dead tired after 25 minutes, he was pushed and outrun like a little kid in defense.
Offered zero goal threat, not too much around the box and nothing in defense.
But "the Don is entering" the field whenever he would step in.

People are still living in 2008-2012 era.
Guys, look at the bottom right corner of your screens, it says: August 2018' on my computer.

Reality check:
1. Xavi is gone
2. Iniesta was a horrible for the last few years
3. Busi is nowhere near old Busi from his prime days
4. and something which will always bring a lot of hate: even current Messi is not more than 70% of a player whom he used to be, and it will be even worse and worse each new Month

People are always whining how our midfield is bad.
How Messi drops deep because our midfield sucks.
How Busi is bad because Rakitic sucks.

Lol, everyone are grannies, everyone are past their prime and that's it.
In 2011', when we won the 2nd CL under Pep:
Messi was 24
Busi was 23
Iniesta was 27
Alves was 28
Pedro was 24
Villa was 30
Xavi was 31

So, these were our 7 playmakers.
Average age: 26,7 with a KEY difference maker Messi aged 24.

Last season in May/June:
Messi 31
Suarez 31
Rakitic 30
Busquets 30
Paulinho 30
Iniesta 34

This was our lineup in a CL in some matches, right?
Average age: 31, with a key player Messi: aged 31

So, for YOU guys who dream about a copy of Pep's era, this is not even funny anymore.
1. not only that we'll never have Xavi-Iniesta-Busi-Alves-Messi anymore
2. not only that the opponents have figured us out
3. but, there is: TIME and AGEING

People say that Rakitic is guilty because our midfield wasn't able to dominate against Roma or Chelsea.
Lol, this Barca would probably lose 4:0 against Pep's prime Barca.

We can't run, we don't have stamina, we don't have courage, we are sooo old.
True, we don't even have technical quality as back then. But face it, NO TEAM will ever have it.

I am only sad that we will lose Messi.
About Luis, Busquets, Rakitic, Iniesta and all grannies: they will be somewhat replaceable quite soon.

I know that my post is all over the place now.
But, people acting as if Iniesta and Busi are still Gods of football, lol.
I am quite sure that if Roberto could play as a CDM in the next season, that our team would have been equally the same as with Busi.
Busi is not a gamechanger anymore.

 

[Judoman]

That has nothing to do with Busquets himself but rather the ever-changing system and weak midfield. His been crowded out too often and left on his own with too much defensive work to do on his own. With an aging Iniesta and Racktic had to cover for S.Roberto defensive on the RB side, it obvious that Busquets carried the midfield on his own shoulder. The only relief came with EV switched to double pivot system.

Funny thing is, you can exchange both names (Busi-Raki) in your statement and it would be as truthful as this one is.

 

[Raketa10]

That has nothing to do with Busquets himself but rather the ever-changing system and weak midfield. His been crowded out too often and left on his own with too much defensive work to do on his own. With an aging Iniesta and Racktic had to cover for S.Roberto defensive on the RB side, it obvious that Busquets carried the midfield on his own shoulder. The only relief came with EV switched to double pivot system.

It has to do a lot with Busi himself since he will never have another Xavi or Iniesta next to him. Without them and in a more direct way of playing his flaws are much more visible and his virtues in a play buildup are not that crucial anymore.

I am not saying he should not be a starter anymore, he should, but let's be realistic and honest. When we talk about any player we should be objective regardels of the fact is his name Rakitic or Busi or someone else.

 

[Sorin]

Rakitic and Messi doesn't play in same position.

What does it matter if they play different positions? Raki was considered better and more important than Lionel Messi last season for a board member. It's asinine regardless of what position they occupy. For example, I consider Ter Stegen second to Messi in importance and quality last season. Do they have to play the same position to compare them?

It's weird that you don't have a problem with that statement but you refuted my point by bringing an irrelevant point into the argument. Position.

You can deny it as much as you want . Still it won't change the fact that Rakitic was better last season . You don't even have stats to back up your claim . Not even in forward passes an aspect in which Rakitic gets shitload of blame from this forum

Dude, that's the role of the more attacking pivot. From what I observed over the time every team that plays 442 or 4231 has one more defensive one and one more attacking pivot. Of course he has more forward passes than Busi. Does he have enough for what he's supposed to at FC Barcelona?

Rakitic is better suited to a double pivot than Busi. That much I agree. Though, in my opinion, we should change the double pivot with 3 mids for next season. Busquets is better than Rakitic as a single pivot, therefore I consider Busquets more important than Rakitic going forward. That's my opinion.

 

[RMU ReBorn]

What does it matter if they play different positions? Raki was considered better and more important than Lionel Messi last season for a board member. It's asinine regardless of what position they occupy. For example, I consider Ter Stegen second to Messi in importance and quality last season. Do they have to play the same position to compare them?

It's weird that you don't have a problem with that statement but you refuted my point by bringing an irrelevant point into the argument. Position.



Dude, that's the role of the more attacking pivot. From what I observed over the time every team that plays 442 or 4231 has one more defensive one and one more attacking pivot. Of course he has more forward passes than Busi. Does he have enough for what he's supposed to at FC Barcelona?

Rakitic is better suited to a double pivot than Busi. That much I agree. Though, in my opinion, we should change the double pivot with 3 mids for next season. Busquets is better than Rakitic as a single pivot, therefore I consider Busquets more important than Rakitic going forward. That's my opinion.

Raki better than Messi is an outright joke . I haven't seen anyone saying that .

last season
messi
Mats
Raki

That has nothing to do with Busquets himself but rather the ever-changing system and weak midfield. His been crowded out too often and left on his own with too much defensive work to do on his own. With an aging Iniesta and Racktic had to cover for S.Roberto defensive on the RB side, it obvious that Busquets carried the midfield on his own shoulder. The only relief came with EV switched to double pivot system.

If he can't adjust to a different system that shows that he is a system player and is not the best anymore . You answered the query pretty much. which was exactly what Raketa was talking about . Xavi was able to adjust , Messi too was excellent under all the managers and their system , so was Don . But Busi somehow s not the same player in a system that doesn't suit his less mobile style .

 

[Raketa10]

What does it matter if they play different positions? Raki was considered better and more important than Lionel Messi last season for a board member. It's asinine regardless of what position they occupy. For example, I consider Ter Stegen second to Messi in importance and quality last season. Do they have to play the same position to compare them?

It's weird that you don't have a problem with that statement but you refuted my point by bringing an irrelevant point into the argument. Position.



Dude, that's the role of the more attacking pivot. From what I observed over the time every team that plays 442 or 4231 has one more defensive one and one more attacking pivot. Of course he has more forward passes than Busi. Does he have enough for what he's supposed to at FC Barcelona?

Rakitic is better suited to a double pivot than Busi. That much I agree. Though, in my opinion, we should change the double pivot with 3 mids for next season. Busquets is better than Rakitic as a single pivot, therefore I consider Busquets more important than Rakitic going forward. That's my opinion.

What???

 

[Sorin]

Raki better than Messi is an outright joke . I haven't seen anyone saying that .

last season
messi
Mats
Raki

What???

You mean, Rakitic goes missing surrounded with turtleslow-pasthisprime Iniesta, Busi, Luis, Messi and similar?
Raki goes missing the same as the hole team against any bigger team.

He wasn't any worse than the best player in the world, more or less.
Raki went MIA is less matches than Messi.

 

[George_Costanza]

If he can't adjust to a different system that shows that he is a system player and is not the best anymore . You answered the query pretty much. which was exactly what Raketa was talking about . Xavi was able to adjust , Messi too was excellent under all the managers and their system , so was Don . But Busi somehow s not the same player in a system that doesn't suit his less mobile style .

Xavi was able to adjust to what exactly? Surely you are not talking about 2014/15 system which pretty much a Barca system with a little tweak. And I'm not following his career in Qatar so can't comment on that.

Barca supposes to have a unique identity and system. Busquets playing in that system since his days in La Masia. Now, the board supposes to recruit managers that implement that system not the other way around. Sure they can adjust, tweak and evolve the system but it's still a Barca system. That's why our brand of football is so unique. EV playing somehow Catenaccio system should be questionable not the players with Barca DNA not thriving in the new system. Raki would have been benched by Pep Guardiola.

 

[RMU ReBorn]

How did you manage to conclude that i didn't had a issue with that. I don't agree with majority of Bbz's opinion apart from one that we need a mobile midfield with one player who can do the dirty work along with players with ariel prowess to win a Cl

Xavi was able to adjust to what exactly? Surely you are not talking about 2014/15 system which pretty much a Barca system with a little tweak. And I'm not following his career in Qatar so can't comment on that.

Barca supposes to have a unique identity and system. Busquets playing in that system since his days in La Masia. Now, the board supposes to recruit managers that implement that system not the other way around. Sure they can adjust, tweak and evolve the system but it's still a Barca system. That's why our brand of football is so unique. EV playing somehow Catenaccio system should be questionable not the players with Barca DNA not thriving in the new system. Raki would have been benched by Pep Guardiola.

what all non sense are you spouting . 2014-15 Barca style was nowhere Close to Pep's style . it was much direct and reliant on counters against Big teams . Xavi was able to adjust to that style and played direct football compared to slow passing style under Pep . Iniesta too was excellent in that system . That system was wrecked because Alves left and there was none to create in Rw wing When Messi drifts to center , that leaves Rakitic babby sitting for Sergi who was extremely vulnerable against decent attacks .

You are right Raki would have been benched under Pep because he had two goat midfielders in Xavi and Iniesta . still he had to sign Saidu keita ,a Rakitic profile player and had Yaya toure in his first two seasons ( A destroyer ) .Shows the importance of players like Rakitic in any system . Even if it's a bench role

 

[Joan]

BBZ is clearly not talking about a season but big matches in the CL. Fact is that Rakitić isn't the only one who goes missing. Did he blow it out of proportions? Yeah, probably.

 

[Raketa10]

Xavi was able to adjust to what exactly? Surely you are not talking about 2014/15 system which pretty much a Barca system with a little tweak. And I'm not following his career in Qatar so can't comment on that.

Barca supposes to have a unique identity and system. Busquets playing in that system since his days in La Masia. Now, the board supposes to recruit managers that implement that system not the other way around. Sure they can adjust, tweak and evolve the system but it's still a Barca system. That's why our brand of football is so unique. EV playing somehow Catenaccio system should be questionable not the players with Barca DNA not thriving in the new system. Raki would have been benched by Pep Guardiola.

Pep had the best Barca team EVER. Give him last year Barca squad and I guarantee you Rakitic would start most of the games. Who would he be benched for? Gomes? Denis? Rafinha? Come on be serious! If anyone would be benched if Pep was here it’s Suarez.

If we buy Pogba or develop Arthur, Alena, Puig or De Jong than we can talk about benching Rakitic.

 

[FCBfan22]

BBZ is clearly not talking about a season but big matches in the CL. Fact is that Rakitić isn't the only one who goes missing. Did he blow it out of proportions? Yeah, probably.

Than he should write it. If he can write those posts that are longer than the Transsiberian railway, he could add in CL to that post.

 

[Sorin]

How did you manage to conclude that i didn't had a issue with that. I don't agree with majority of Bbz's opinion apart from one that we need a mobile midfield with one player who can do the dirty work along with players with ariel prowess to win a Cl

Because when I brought it up you didn't have any problem with me mentioning the crass overrating of Rakitic in that comment. You brought up position, so it seemed to me that you low-key considered it valid. My bad. That's fair enough, however BBZ is one of the more vocal ones on these forums so it pops up more when he posts this kind of non-sense.

Anyway, let's leave it as it is since i'm not necessarily disagreeing with but I have slightly different views with how we should play and what's best going forward. Could be wrong as I don't pretend to be a know-all expert but yeah.

Edit: [MENTION=22463]Joan Laporta[/MENTION] Stop defending him since what Messi did against Chelsea in CL last blows anything Raki did out of the water CL+League combined. Wasn't that a big game too? Or is the Roma the only one? How about against Juve? Against Atleti? Sevilla from 2 up? Aren't those big matches? He straight up went full-retard, there's no two ways about it.

 

[Joan]

Than he should write it. If he can write those posts that are longer than the Transsiberian railway, he could add in CL to that post.

Or we can look at the post he's quoting and replying to.

What elite midfields did Rakitic come up against in the WC? In the UCL he always comes up missing when the team needs the midfield to assert itself on the game.

etc.

Edit: [MENTION=22463]Joan Laporta[/MENTION] Stop defending him since what Messi did against Chelsea in CL last blows anything Raki did out of the water CL+League combined. Wasn't that a big game too? Or is the Roma the only one? How about against Juve? Against Atleti? Sevilla from 2 up? Aren't those big matches? He straight up went full-retard, there's no two ways about it.

All I said is that BBZ didn't state Raki was better and more important than Lionel Messi last season. He was talking about big matches in the CL. And I agree, he's blown it out of proportions. But so do you now.

 

[soul24rage]

Messi went missing once against Roma.. but you realise in games like that not every player is equally responsible.

The MIDFIELD for me was by far the most responsable for that defeat.. even though the defence had a shocker.

Umtiti and Pique got bullied but there didn’t need to be that much pressure put on them which was down to the midfield.

Iniesta, Busi, Rakitic and Roberto were all shocking in that game, ZERO control.. made the whole team nervous, couldn’t find a forward pass to save their lives. But we’ve seen this sort of play from Rakitic in the tough games more than others, the backpasses, the lack of agility and ability to turn a man in midfield. Rakitic is great for La Liga though.. but tougher games goes missing more than most.

Even more responsible for that defeat than the midfield was the formation and the tactics from EV

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