Ivan Rakitić

[Cool]

Why are you all pushing Messi on CF?

Because as an RW he spends most of the game playing as a 10, vacating his position and leaves the wing exposed hence messing with the team structure.

So, when you play him as a false nine you get to:
1) Have functional winger in Dembele, him and Semedo can combo together and you get some wing play, it also helps to stretch out the opposition team.

2) Messi can comfortably drop in the midfield and then Griez will tuck inside and Alba will push up to play as the LW.

Our right side is dead, once you shut down the left flank, then our game is figured out.

 

[FinBarcelonafan]

Because as an RW he spends most of the game playing as a 10, vacating his position and leaves the wing exposed hence messing with the team structure.

So, when you play him as a false nine you get to:
1) Have functional winger in Dembele, him and Semedo can combo together and you get some wing play, it also helps to stretch out the opposition team.

2) Messi can comfortably drop in the midfield and then Griez will tuck inside and Alba will push up to play as the LW.

Our right side is dead, once you shut down the left flank, then our game is figured out.

Well said. This has been problem for a long time. People keep complaining about Semedo but there's no one on his side who will help him. Semedo and Dembele compliment each other very well.

 

[tacticvarium]

I would still rather play Shitberto (or Busi) than Shitinho in the midfield. Both are super limited in their own way but Shitberto will at least provide more dynamics and defensive contribution than Shitinho although he lacks individiual defensive skills. The current midfield is saturated only in terms of quantity. Quality-wise Barça still needs 1-2 more competitive midfielders and one of them should be a proper pivot/DM who can provide some physique, height and technique at the same time.

 

[Never_Forget40]

................Suarez.......
Dembele...Messi....Griezmann
.......De Jong........Arthur
Alba...Pique...Umtiti...Semedo
..............Ter Stegen........

Why not 4-2-3-1 ?

 

[Ustari]

--------------De Jong---------
-------Arthur-------Coutinho
Messi-----Griezmann----Dembele

RIP on both flanks

 

[Aryagorn]

................Suarez.......
Dembele...Messi....Griezmann
.......De Jong........Arthur
Alba...Pique...Umtiti...Semedo
..............Ter Stegen........

Why not 4-2-3-1 ?

I hope this happens because this would be very much similar to Real's hat trick CL champions! Except for CR7's areal threat but Messi makes up for whatever we lack

 

[khaled_a_d]

The diference is that you, like Valverde, make faulty prediction after faulty prediction, but keep double downing on the same shit in face of reality.

How is that a difference between most members here? People on this forum have been expecting us to be the next Milan for over half decade now.

 

[Aryagorn]

How is that a difference between most members here? People on this forum have been expecting us to be the next Milan for over half decade now.

tbh the only reason it didn't happen is Messi! having that said, the board seem to have finally come out of that shit

 

[Gnidrologist]

How is that a difference between most members here? People on this forum have been expecting us to be the next Milan for over half decade now.

Being pesimistic about Messi-less future of Barce under current management isn't far fetched, but it's a long time projection. BBZ's hell bent stance on muh tall physical players has been dismantled two years in a row already. It has happened NOW.

 

[Raketa10]

................Suarez.......
Dembele...Messi....Griezmann
.......De Jong........Arthur
Alba...Pique...Umtiti...Semedo
..............Ter Stegen........

Why not 4-2-3-1 ?

This looks more like 4-2-4

 

[BBZ8800]

Being pesimistic about Messi-less future of Barce under current management isn't far fetched, but it's a long time projection. BBZ's hell bent stance on muh tall physical players has been dismantled two years in a row already. It has happened NOW.

Short, techical Barca Dna midfielders won 1 mighty CL in a 107 years long history before Messi.

These stupid arguments work both ways.

2013 Bayern 4:0
Alves, Busi, Xavi, Iniesta, Messi, Alexis
2014 Atletico 1:0
Alves, Busi, Xavi, Iniesta, Messi, Neymar, Fabregas.
We can't score on an away match no matter what we do.
2016 Atletico 2:0
Alves, Busi, Iniesta, Raki, MSN.
No goals, as always.
Psg 4:0
Juve 3:0
Roma 3:0
Liverpool 4:0

In reality, Barca's DNA football won only 1 CL in 107 years.
In 2006, we won a CL, but even then Messi helped in some matches before an injury.
Iniesta played a role, and Xavi played in the first part of a season.

Basically, all Barca's and Spanish NT success came with Xavi-Iniesta (and Messi, of course).

There really aren't any proofs that a pure Barca DNA football can bring success without prime Messi, Xavi, Iniesta.
Barca tried after 2011 with a 1/8 success ratio.
Or 1/6 if you remove EV's 2 attempts.
Pep tried without Messi-Xavi-Iniesta with 0/6 ratio in a CL till now.
Spain tried after 2012 with a 0/3 ratio.

So, both sides have proofs on their side.
You can say that more physical players don't work.
I can tell that Barca's DNA without prime Xavi-Iniesta-Messi has around 1/10 success ratio at best.

For replies how Real played like Barca, lol.
They had 3 attacking options in possession football, counters and crosses.
We have only a sterile-pass to Messi football for years.
Real has a bone breaker Casemiro who already has several CL titles with Real and a Copa Amrrica title with Brasil.
On the other hand, we have a bone-breaker Busi, lol.
No wonder that we concede 3-4 goals on all away matches.
Real has several aerial towers in Benz, Cr7, Casemiro, Ramos, which make them strong at attacking corners and at defensive corners.
Unlike us, who concede 1 corner-header per tie in a CL.
So, the only similarity between RM and Barca is that they had 2 technical CMs, nothing else.

So, maybe it is time to accept that Pep's football in a CL can work only if you have a perfect team (Messi-Xavi-Iniesta) and opponents who don't know yet how to play against that style.

So, if you don't have Messi, Xavi and Iniesta, and if the year is not 2008-2011 anymore, then the answer is probably:
= Barca's DNA possession based attacking football as a core mixed and upgraded with a modern requirements like some counters, some headers, more pace, more stamina, more fighting spirit etc.

Basically, Pep's Barca mixed with let's say Klopp's Liverpool.
That should be a future of Barca.
And not Pep's Barca from 2011.

 

[serghei]

Sure. 2009 Barcelona is what you are looking for. Combination of physical but still technical players with short passing magicians.

Not sure why you're backing the likes of Rakitic though, since he is neither Yaya Toure like, Neiher Xavi Iniesta like. He is not even as good as Keita was.

 

[Raketa10]

He is not even as good as Keita was.

At some point this thread became absurd. Keita? Really dude?

 

[Danny Ocean]

Short, techical Barca Dna midfielders won 1 mighty CL in a 107 years long history before Messi.

These stupid arguments work both ways.

2013 Bayern 4:0
Alves, Busi, Xavi, Iniesta, Messi, Alexis
2014 Atletico 1:0
Alves, Busi, Xavi, Iniesta, Messi, Neymar, Fabregas.
We can't score on an away match no matter what we do.
2016 Atletico 2:0
Alves, Busi, Iniesta, Raki, MSN.
No goals, as always.
Psg 4:0
Juve 3:0
Roma 3:0
Liverpool 4:0

In reality, Barca's DNA football won only 1 CL in 107 years.
In 2006, we won a CL, but even then Messi helped in some matches before an injury.
Iniesta played a role, and Xavi played in the first part of a season.

Basically, all Barca's and Spanish NT success came with Xavi-Iniesta (and Messi, of course).

There really aren't any proofs that a pure Barca DNA football can bring success without prime Messi, Xavi, Iniesta.
Barca tried after 2011 with a 1/8 success ratio.
Or 1/6 if you remove EV's 2 attempts.
Pep tried without Messi-Xavi-Iniesta with 0/6 ratio in a CL till now.
Spain tried after 2012 with a 0/3 ratio.

So, both sides have proofs on their side.
You can say that more physical players don't work.
I can tell that Barca's DNA without prime Xavi-Iniesta-Messi has around 1/10 success ratio at best.

For replies how Real played like Barca, lol.
They had 3 attacking options in possession football, counters and crosses.
We have only a sterile-pass to Messi football for years.
Real has a bone breaker Casemiro who already has several CL titles with Real and a Copa Amrrica title with Brasil.
On the other hand, we have a bone-breaker Busi, lol.
No wonder that we concede 3-4 goals on all away matches.
Real has several aerial towers in Benz, Cr7, Casemiro, Ramos, which make them strong at attacking corners and at defensive corners.
Unlike us, who concede 1 corner-header per tie in a CL.
So, the only similarity between RM and Barca is that they had 2 technical CMs, nothing else.

So, maybe it is time to accept that Pep's football in a CL can work only if you have a perfect team (Messi-Xavi-Iniesta) and opponents who don't know yet how to play against that style.

So, if you don't have Messi, Xavi and Iniesta, and if the year is not 2008-2011 anymore, then the answer is probably:
= Barca's DNA possession based attacking football as a core mixed and upgraded with a modern requirements like some counters, some headers, more pace, more stamina, more fighting spirit etc.

Basically, Pep's Barca mixed with let's say Klopp's Liverpool.
That should be a future of Barca.
And not Pep's Barca from 2011.

Tough to disagree with that.

 

[BBZ8800]

Sure. 2009 Barcelona is what you are looking for. Combination of physical but still technical players with short passing magicians.

Not sure why you're backing the likes of Rakitic though, since he is neither Yaya Toure like, Neiher Xavi Iniesta like. He is not even as good as Keita was.

Ok 2009 was at least more dimensional than 2011'.

We at least had Messi, Henry, Etoo attack who could have scored from possession-dribbles-1/2s.
All 3 of them had pace for counters.
And 2 of them could have scored headers (188cm Henry and 181cm Etoo).

After that, Pep changed his style and started to play with 6 cloned players in midfield and attack where every single player looked like and played like a mixture of David Silva and Iniesta.
That system works perfectly against 95% of teams and until when you are figured out.
After that, you are dead.
Just like Pep's last 7 CL's attempts.

Anyway, if you only look at this part with a three way attacking options, look at our Dembele-Griezmann-Messi attack and compare it with 2006 or 2009:

Possession:
2006: 3/3, Ronnie, Etoo, Messi
2009: 3/3, Messi, Henry, Etoo
2015: 2,5/3, Messi, Neymar, 1/2 Suarez
2020: 3/3, Messi, Griezz, Dembele

Counters, pace:
2006: 3/3, Ronnie, Etoo, Messi
2009: 3/3, young Messi, Etoo, Henry
2015: 2/3, Messi, Neymar
2020: 1/3, Dembele

Crosses and headers:
2006: 3/4, Larsson, Etoo, Ronnie
2009: 2/3, Etoo, Henry
2015: 1/3, Suarez
2020: 0/3

Then I don't get how people can think that the current team is the best in Europe and a multidimensional in attack.

2006 team: 3+3+2,75=8,75 points
2009=8 points
2015=5,5 points
2020=4 points

1. Our attack is not as multidimensional as in previous years
2. We don't have Xavi and Iniesta anymore
3. Messi will be 33
4. We don't have a RB

I see that people are already commenting: omg, Messi-Griezz connection will be crazy.
Yes, lol. Only on the ground.

The last team who won a CL without too much pace, counters and headers was Barca in 2011.

After that, except lucky Chelsea in 2012, all champions excelled in 2 out of 3 or 3 out of 3 from:
1. Goals from possession/Barca's type of football
2. Goals from counters due to 2-3-4 pacey atrackers and wingers
3. Goals after crosess and corners due to tall Cfs or tall CBs

Again, what does a current Barca have?
Only a possession play.
Our heading game is dead with midget players.
And our counters game is dead due to one fast player in a team, Dembele, on whom you can't rely in the box either way.

Anyway, my head will explode of simplifying posts like: Real played like Barca.
Or this team is multidimensional and the best in Europe.
Or selling Rakitic will solve our problems. Lol, will we suddenly have a multidimensional attack without Raki? No.
Will we suddenly be able to defend corners in Europe with our midget team (Messi, Griezz, Cou, Arthur, Alba, Semedo etc)? No.

Our team has 100 flaws for a Cl.
Yet people are obssessed with Frenkie-Arthur off the ball movement.

Again, will they improve our attack? No
Will they improve our defending of corners? No
Will they improve Messi's sulking habits? No