Ivan Rakitić

[Rory]

I can think of a better one. How about Bbz and a handful of you who have a combined IQ of Miley Cyrus get banned?

Why not just add bbz to ignore list? That's what I did, I highly recommend

 

[Givenchy]

sure BBZ, lets continue playing a player we made clear has no future here, aging and pretty much useless over a player like Arthur who has immense potential, young and here for the future

 

[Total-Football]

I'm done with Rakitic and I ma big fan of his. But I will 1lways put him above current Buskets. Our midfield really is miserable'

 

[Raketa10]

First of all I am 100% for selling Rakitic in January even if that means we'll miss him in some games. It's time to move on and same goes for Vidal and Busi. As things stand right now I would rather we end third in La Liga and go out against Napoli with some youngster in our team than continue watching this utter shit. Anyone who would says that Raki had a good game against Real would be lying but we should also consider one more thing.

Real played with 4 midfielders and 2 strikers in that game and all of those 6 players tracked back, they were all running and moving all of the time. On the other side we were playing 4-3-3. If you forget about those 4 at the back in more than 50% of the game we were playing 4 (or 3) vs 6 since Messi and Suarez weren't contributing and helping midfield 90% of the time. That's a recipe for disaster!

I can understand that Messi should be excused of some defensive duties but FFS we need to stop tolerating that "walking mode" during the game. Let's go back to Pep time or Enrique's first season! All players were pressing and playing defense! Look what is happening now! Those front 3 are basically walking when our opponent is attacking us or they are just standing and waiting ball during the attack. None of Dembele, Suarez and Messi even tries to defend. Griezmann is basically the only one who contributes in defense. Now take that fact put Liverpool on the other side and you have that 4-0 game. Same thing happened in Rome. We need to stop blaming only our midfield for all the bad stuff that's happening to us. I would say our attack is our big problem as well.

When you are aware that you have inadequate midfield you NEED to compensate that by working hard (just look at Lpool) and in our team none of the attackers is working at all during the time we defend. As I said I can understand that Messi's "walking mode" has to be tolerated but than you have to put two hard working attackers beside him and not FUCKING SUAREZ who runs and moves even less than Leo! Until we solve that problem we could have De Jong, De Bruyne and Kross midfield and we would still suffer because there is no team in the world who can compensate for 2 or 3 players who tend to walk 50% of the game.

In the end I can understand and tolerate the lack of talent but I will never tolerate "not giving a fuck" or "not trying" because that shows the lack of respect towards the club and your teammates.

 

[JohnN]

First of all I am 100% for selling Rakitic in January even if that means we'll miss him in some games. It's time to move on and same goes for Vidal and Busi. As things stand right now I would rather we end third in La Liga an go out against Napoli with some youngster in our team than continue watching this utter shit. Anyone who would says that Raki had a good game against Real would be lying but we should also consider one more thing.

Real played with 4 midfielders and 2 strikers in that game and all of those 6 players tracked back, they were all running and moving all of the time. On the other side we were playing 4-3-3. If you forget about those 4 at the back in more than 50% of the game we were playing 4 (or 3) vs 6 since Messi and Suarez weren't contributing and helping midfield 90% of the time. That's a recipe for disaster!

I can understand that Messi should be excused for some defensive duties but FFS we need to stop tolerating that "walking mode" during the game. Let's go back to PEP time or Enrique's first season! All players were pressing and playing defense! Look what is happening now! Those front 3 are basically walking when our opponent is attacking us or they are just standing and waiting ball during the attack. None of Dembele, Suarez and Messi even tries to defend. Griezmann is basically the only one who contributes in defense. Now take that fact put Liverpool on the other side and you have that 4-0 game. Same thing happened in Rome.

When you are aware that you have inadequate midfield you NEED to compensate that by working hard (just look at Lpool) and in our team none of the attackers is working at all during the time we defend. As I said I can understand that Messi's "walking mode" (who is indisputable GOAT) has to be tolerated but than put two hard working attacker beside him and not FUCKING SUAREZ who runs and moves even less than Leo! Until we solve that problem we could have De Jong, De Bruyne and Kross midfield and we would still suffer because there is no team in the world who can compensate for 2 or 3 players who tend to walk 50% of the game.

In the end I can understand and tolerate the lack of talent but I will never tolerate "not giving a fuck" or "not trying" because that shows the lac of respect towards the club and your teammates.

But pressing is a team effort. What happens with us, is that some players decide to press while others don't and vice versa. It's not a structured pressing pattern. Messi did press hard for his standards this game and did win the ball a couple of times. But it's mostly running in vein when it's up to the individual. We need a plan, even for this.

 

[Raketa10]

But pressing is a team effort. What happens with us, is that some players decide to press while others don't and vice versa. It's not a structured pressing pattern. Messi did press hard for his standards this game and did win the ball a couple of times. But it's mostly running in vein when it's up to the individual. We need a plan, even for this.

Exactly! Pressing is absolutely impossible if all 11 players don't press at the same time. If there is only one player who is walking and not giving a fuck than pressing becomes impossible and we always have at least 2 of them on the field. What I am trying to tell is that all of us should try to look at a bigger picture and not just our midfield because problem is much bigger than that.

 

[BBZ8800]

First of all I am 100% for selling Rakitic in January even if that means we'll miss him in some games. It's time to move on and same goes for Vidal. Anyone who would say that Raki had a good game against Real would be lying but we should also consider one more thing.

Real played with 4 midfielders and 2 strikers in that game and all of those 6 players tracked back, they were all running and moving all of the time. On the other side we were playing 4-3-3. If you forget about those 4 at the back in more than 50% of the game we were playing 4 (or 3) vs 6 since Messi and Suarez weren't contributing and helping midfield 90% of the time. That's a recipe for disaster!

I can understand that Messi should be excused for some defensive duties but FFS we need to stop tolerating that "walking mode" during the game. Let's go back to PEP time or Enrique's first season! All players were pressing and playing defense! Look what is happening now! Those front 3 are basically walking when our opponent is attacking us or they are just standing and waiting ball during the attack. None of Dembele, Suarez and Messi even tries to defend. Griezmann is basically the only one who contributes in defense. Now take that fact put Liverpool on the other side and you have that 4-0 game. Same thing happened in Rome.

Don't bother.

I personally find it fun (the level of delusion and how fans deliberatly opt to live on clouds which have nothing with a reality).
I posted a long post yesterday on Frenkie's thread asking coaches from Barca forum how would they set up our attacking line, 3 midfielders and a RB, considering:
1. that Messi doesn't defend and he needs a babysitter
2. Suarez needs to play since Messi needs a No9 besides him. And if Messi+Suarez play together, then we need 2 babysitter covering for them
3. the only true babysitter is Rakitic. People don't want him in a lineup since he is ruining a build up.
4. Frenkie ventures into the attack, and he himself usually had another babysitter in a Dutch NT and at Ajax in De Roon and Schone.
Here, NOT only that he don't have a babysitter and a corrector for him, but he is supposed to cover for Messi/Suarez and even for the likes of Arthur, lol.
5. do I even need to comment on ideas from some fans that Dembele-Suarez/Griezz-Messi is a way to go? Lol. Messi and Dembele in the same lineup. That needs like 9 babysitters in midfield against big teams.
And you guys wonder why "a stupid EV" hasn't played Dembele in Rome or against Liverpool? Because we would have conceded like 5-6 until a half time with that team setup with zero defending.
To make it more fun, imagine Dembele-CF-Messi, Alena-Arthur-Frenkie against big teams. A horror show.
No one is defending in attack and except Frenkie, no one is defending in midfield.

But, do you know what people will reply?
= but this is HOW we play, we are Barca, we played THAT WAY under Pep!

And then when I tried to explain that our style of play NEVER brought any results in Europe, until we have finally had Messi-Xavi-Iniesta in the same era.
So, basically, people are calling for returning to extra attacking and extra technical team which never worked without Messi in a team.
Then people say: look at what happened in Rome or Liverpool.
Well, flashnews: before Messi, and after Messi, the same will happen all the time if we will play with too light players or with EV's tactics.
The goal is to find a middle ground.

But a middle ground doesn't exist for majority of fans.
I have seen 100s of posts with: sell Raki and Vidal and keep: Frenkie, Arthur, Busi, Alena, Puig.
Like wtf?
Frenkie: can defend
Arthur: can't defend
Busi: old and done
Alena: can't defend
Puig: can't defend
In which universe does this set of players makes any sense?
= except here. Where people are looking football in a simplified and onedimensional way: we need to attack! we need to keep possession!
Well, surely, we do.
But no matter what you, you won't have the ball in 30-40% of a match.
All the possession and technique won't help you, if you will concede 3-4 easy goals per match if none of attackers/midfielders will be able to defend.
Should I even dare to mention physique of Arthur/Alena/Puig?
We are the only team in a universe who is playing with these type of players.
I know, I know, people will pull again: BUT BUT BUT we are Barca, Xavi-Iniesta were the same.
Lol, again.
Xavi-Iniesta were the best ever. And even they won because they had Messi to save their asses.
Xavi-Iniesta alone probably couldn't do anything in club football today (CL) without Messi.
And not to mention that our next gen of midfielders are not Xavi-Iniesta.
Now: if those players are way weaker copies of Xavi-Iniesta, and we won't have Messi, and if other opponents have evolved and are running like crazy (Liverpool, City, even RM), does it make any sense to play with weak copies of something which worked once in 2011?

Some smartasses will reply: you want us to play like Stoke.
Wtf.

No.
But:
1. Alenas and Puigs won't work
2. Raki-Vidal won't work
3. Arthur and similar without defending won't work

This is why I am saying:
= this is the worst Barca's team since 2003.
All players are good in 1-2 areas and flawed in 5 other areas.
No matter which lineup you create, it will suck either in build up or in defending.
And then people have those dreamland ideas: but let's try Puig or Alena.
They are as equally as shit, or way, way, way more shit.

In short: all midfielders except Frenkie are way behind current CL top level.
And youngsters from La Masia are horrible.
On top of that, our attacking line is horribly flawed, and it works only due to Messi.

People want solutions RIGHT now. But there are no solutions right now. It is what it is.
Also, people want something to hope for the future and this is why they are overrating Arthur, Fati, Alena, Puig.
Well, in this moment, those are only wishful thinking. A creation of your desires and dreams.

TLDR:
1. we have the worst board ever
2. we have horrible sporting directors
3. we have the oldest team ever
4. we don't have motivation anymore due to winning too much in recent years
5. we have the worst and the most overrated team since 2003
6. all midfielders bar Frenkie are bad
7. we don't have any aggression, a fighting spirit, leaders, captains
8. all youngsters are more or less bad to average at best
9. a present is not too shiny and the short term future also doesn't look too bright (except desperate delusional overhyping of our youngsters)

In the past I used to think that we will need 1-2 years for an overhaul.
Today I am closer to accepting that we will need at least 4-5 years of AWESOME decisions, some luck on transfers, some luck with youths, an awesome coach, players who will turn as awesome professionals etc.
Then again, if Barto or his man wins the elections, we will stay on this place for the next 10 years.
Without Messi and with random superstars who don't fit and with 10s of washed up signings like Thiago, Neymar and similar.

I am really not trolling or anything.
Our situation and rooster is so BAD, that there is a high chance that in 2-3 years, we will look back to a December of 2019 and say: oh, remember those good old days in 2019, when we were mediocre, we were at least capable to win some matches and be on top of the table.

Yes, we are nowhere near the bottom.
We will sink miles, miles, miles deeper than today, when you remove Messi and when we will be left with the current youngsters.

 

[BBZ8800]

But pressing is a team effort. What happens with us, is that some players decide to press while others don't and vice versa. It's not a structured pressing pattern. Messi did press hard for his standards this game and did win the ball a couple of times. But it's mostly running in vein when it's up to the individual. We need a plan, even for this.

But do you think that EV or Lucho told to our players: guys, don't press.
I mean, they are not retarded.
They have a team of coaches who work as coaches their whole life.
They read papers and places like this forum.

Do you think that NO ONE ever got to an idea: guess, what? Why don't we press as a team, with a plan?

The simple answer is: they don't do that because Messi is 32.
He is a human, who played for 15 years with 60 matches per season.
Messi is barely breathing and walking.
Even when he walks and don't defend, he doesn't have legs and lugs for more than 8-10 attacking moves/runs per match.
Now, imagine if Messi would do 20-30 defensive runs per match?
He would be dead tired after 30 minutes and he would do nothing in attack.

So, Messi doesn't press because he physically can't.
Raki? The same. Played 130 matches in the last 2 years. And he was the most used player for 5 years.
If he will ty to attack, he will be dead tired in defense. He can't do both. So, he is just defending currently.
Arthur. A kid who is dead tired after 60 minutes.
And there is a high chance that it will be even worse in the future.
Busi? Where will he press, the same as Raki.
Then add Dumbele. Even if you tell him what to do, he probably won't understand.

And what do you have then?
Messi who can't run.
Raki-Busi who can't press.
Arthur who isn't much better or faster physically than those 2 grannies.
Then Frenkie, who can run.
Then Griezz who can also run, but he drops so deep, that he is useless in attack. And since Raki and Busi can't attack since they are shit and old, and Arthur can't do anything in attack, then Griezz dropping deep is a problem.
But:
1. on one hand, Griezz needs to drop deep since Messi, Suarez, Dembele, Arthur, Roberto can't defend.
If he won't drop deep, we will be even worse at defending.
2. and if he DOES drop deep, then Messi is again alone in the attack surrounded by Semedo (lol), Arthur (who is useless in the attacking 3rd), Frenkie (the same), Raki (old and walking around our box), Busi the same.

So, once again:
NO MATTER WHAT YOU WILL DO, our team will suck this way or another.
So, there is NO SOLUTION.
The only option is: to pick whether you want to suck in a WAY NO1 or in a WAY NO2.

80% of midfielders can't defend.
80% of midfielders are useless in the attacking 3rd.
Attackers don't press.
Suarez can't play a simple pass.
Dumbele doesn't understand whatever you tell him.
Semedo is a comedy on a RB.
Alba is dumb as fuck and even scared lately (like Raki) on a LB.
Pique is a businessman.
Umtiti is done.
Lenglet is average.
Mats is always on a verge of conceding 4 due to his mental weaknesses.

And again, people will say: but but but Alena and Puig!
Please, I am rolling eyes so hard while writing this that I will need to see a doctor later today.

A team is fucked up on so many levels.
And then you guys compare this with Pep's days where:
Pedro attacked and pressed.
Messi attacked and pressed.
Villa attacked and pressed.
Xavi attacked, pressed and created.
Iniesta attacked, pressed and created.
Busi attacked, pressed and created.
Alves attacked, pressed and created.
And all of them were somewhat young and motivated.

And now again, try to do this with:
Messi aged 32, Suarez 32, Griezz 28, Raki 31, Busi 31, Alba 30.

I have told you a lot of times, only one person in the world could make this team slightly better.
And his name is:

 

[Raketa10]

Don't bother.

I personally find it fun (the level of delusion and how fans deliberatly opt to live on clouds which have nothing with a reality).
I posted a long post yesterday on Frenkie's thread asking coaches from Barca forum how would they set up our attacking line, 3 midfielders and a RB, considering:
1. that Messi doesn't defend and he needs a babysitter
2. Suarez needs to play since Messi needs a No9 besides him. And if Messi+Suarez play together, then we need 2 babysitter covering for them
3. the only true babysitter is Rakitic. People don't want him in a lineup since he is ruining a build up.
4. Frenkie ventures into the attack, and he himself usually had another babysitter in a Dutch NT and at Ajax in De Roon and Schone.
Here, NOT only that he don't have a babysitter and a corrector for him, but he is supposed to cover for Messi/Suarez and even for the likes of Arthur, lol.
5. do I even need to comment on ideas from some fans that Dembele-Suarez/Griezz-Messi is a way to go? Lol. Messi and Dembele in the same lineup. That needs like 9 babysitters in midfield against big teams.
And you guys wonder why "a stupid EV" hasn't played Dembele in Rome or against Liverpool? Because we would have conceded like 5-6 until a half time with that team setup with zero defending.
To make it more fun, imagine Dembele-CF-Messi, Alena-Arthur-Frenkie against big teams. A horror show.
No one is defending in attack and except Frenkie, no one is defending in midfield.

But, do you know what people will reply?
= but this is HOW we play, we are Barca, we played THAT WAY under Pep!

And then when I tried to explain that our style of play NEVER brought any results in Europe, until we have finally had Messi-Xavi-Iniesta in the same era.
So, basically, people are calling for returning to extra attacking and extra technical team which never worked without Messi in a team.
Then people say: look at what happened in Rome or Liverpool.
Well, flashnews: before Messi, and after Messi, the same will happen all the time if we will play with too light players or with EV's tactics.
The goal is to find a middle ground.

But a middle ground doesn't exist for majority of fans.
I have seen 100s of posts with: sell Raki and Vidal and keep: Frenkie, Arthur, Busi, Alena, Puig.
Like wtf?
Frenkie: can defend
Arthur: can't defend
Busi: old and done
Alena: can't defend
Puig: can't defend
In which universe does this set of players make any sense?
= except here. Where people are looking football in a simplified and onedimensional way: we need to attack! we need to keep possession!
Well, surely, we do.
But no matter what you, you won't have the ball in 30-40% of a match.
All the possession and technique won't help you, if you will conceded 3-4 easy goals per match if none of attackers/midfielders will be able to defend.
Should I even dare to mention physique of Arthur/Alena/Puig?
We are the only team in a universe who is playing with these type of players.
I know, I know, people will pull again: BUT BUT BUT we are Barca, Xavi-Iniesta were the same.
Lol, again.
Xavi-Iniesta were the best ever. And even they won because they had Messi to save their asses.
Xavi-Iniesta alone probably couldn't do anything in club football today (CL) without Messi.
And not to mention that our next gen of midfielders are not Xavi-Iniesta.
Now: if those players are way weaker copies of Xavi-Iniesta, and we won't have Messi, and if other opponents have evolved and are running like crazy (Liverpool, City, even RM), does it make any sense to play with weak copies of something which worked once in 2011?

Some smartasses will reply: you want us to play like Stoke.
Wtf.

No.
But:
1. Alenas and Puis won't work
2. Raki-Vidal won't work
3. Arthur and similar without defending won't work

This is why I am saying:
= this is the worst Barca's team since 2003.
All players are good in 1-2 areas and flawed in 5 other areas.
No matter which lineup you create, it will suck either in build up or in defending.
And then people have those dreamland ideas: but let's try Puig or Alena.
They are as equally as shit, or way, way, way more shit.

In short: all midfielders except Frenkie are way behind current CL top level.
And youngsters from La Masia are horrible.
On top of that, our attacking line is horrible flawed, and it works only due to Messi.

People want solutions RIGHT now. But there is no solutions right now. It is what it is.
Also, people want something to hope for the future and this is why they are overrating Arthur, Fati, Alena, Puig.
Well, in this moment, those are only wishful thinking. A creation of your desires and dreams.

TLDR:
1. we have the worst board ever
2. we have horrible sporting directors
3. we have the oldest team ever
4. we don't have motivation anymore due to winning too much in recent years
5. we have the worst and the most overrated team since 2003
6. all midfielder bar Frenkie are bad
7. we don't have any aggression,a fighting spirit, leaders, captains
8. all youngsters are more or less bad to average at best
9. a present is not too shiny and the short term future also doesn't look too bright (except desperate delusional overhyping of our youngsters)

In the past I used to think that we will need 1-2 years for an overhaul.
Today I am closer to accepting that we will need at least 4-5 years of AWESOME decisions, some luck on transfers, some luck with youths, an awesome coach, players who will turn as awesome professionals etc.
Then again, if Barto or his man wins the elections, we will stay on this place for the next 10 years.
Without Messi and with random superstars who don't fit and with 10s of washed up signings like Thiago, Neymar and similar.

I am really not trolling or anything.
Our situation and rooster is so BAD, that there is a high chance that in 2-3 years, we will look back to a December of 2019 and say: oh, remember those good old days in 2019, when we were mediocre, we were at least capable to win some matches and be on top of the table.

Yes, we are nowhere near the bottom.
We will sink miles, miles, miles deeper than today, when you remove Messi and when we will be left with the current youngsters.

I agree but I would add only one more thing. Even with Xavi-Iniesta-Messi (the best trio ever) we pressed like crazy during Pep's era. When that stopped we started having problems (Pep's final season). Lucho brought that back but he almost got sacked during his first season since he forced some players to run and dared to sub them off in some games. He also forced them to play more positional football and we can remember it was not accepted well at all by some players. What I am trying to say is that even that best ever trio worked hard in both directions. If they did't do that they wouldn't have won anything regardless of the immense talent they had.

[MENTION=16942]BBZ8800[/MENTION] I also agree with everything you wrote in your second post except the fact that Mats is mentally weak. What did you mean by that?! He is actually one of the few players I am delighted we have.

 

[BBZ8800]

I agree but I would add only one more thing. Even with Xavi-Iniesta-Messi (the best trio ever) we pressed like crazy during Pep's era. When that stopped we started having problems (Pep's final season). Lucho brought that back but he almost got sacked during his first season since he forced some players to run and dared to sub them off in some games. He also forced them to play more positional football and we can remember it was not accepted well at all by some players. What I am trying to say is that even that best ever trio worked hard in both directions. If they did't do that they wouldn't have won anything regardless of the immense talent they had.

Ok, but I have wrote, what we have learned from Pep's 4th season at Barca and Pep's 4th season at City.
WHAT IF every player has a certain amount of energy which he can offer in his career (I know that things don't work like that, but you get the point).
Let's say it this way: what if a player plays on an average level of exhaustion (let's say a current Barca's level)=he will be able to play for 10 years at a top level.
But if a player will play at Klopp's level of running and pressing or at Pep's level=that player is more or less done and finished for a top level after 4 years since his body is destroyed.
Again, don't take this literally, but only to a certain extent.

My prediction is:
Klopp's Liverpool will be on this level for 1-2 more years and then they will fall/lose the energy and they will never return to this level.
UNLESS if they will sell majority of current players and buy a new team.
So, you see, my point is:
= players can run like crazy like under Pep/Klopp ONLY:
1. if they are more or less young
2. if they are motivated and haven't won too much in their careers
3. if they are physically capable to run and press
4. and they will be able to repeat this only for 3-4 years.
After that their bodies and stamina will be heavily damaged.
And they will win a lot of trophies so their minds won't be at 120% ever again.

Now, the question is:
1. what will happen with Pep's city and his players once when he will leave?
You will have a bunch of players who's bodies are damaged and who won a lot of trophies, so their motivation dropped.
Also, majority of them were 23-24 when Pep bought them, and they will be 28 when Pep will leave.
When a new coach will come, what is more likely:
1) that City will run like crazy
2) or that they will look like a team of old, drained, unmotivated grannies?
2. the same with Klopp's Liverpool.
Imagine their attack in 3-4 years.
Do you think that 32 years old Firmio, Salah and Mane will run and press like aged 26?
I don't think so.

Now, if we agree on this, let's move to Barca.
What do we have today in our team?
= we have a team (core) who was destroyed (physically and mentally) during Pep.
Their bodies are damaged and drained forever.
Their motivation is gone due to winning too much.
And players aged and are now 31 or 32.

So, my point is: when you have physically demanding coaches like Simeone, Pep, Klopp, it will work for some time and after 5 years, you can literally throw those players into a garbage can.
Remember Arda and other midfielders from Atletico.
They were dead aged 28. They couldn't run anymore after a few years under Simeone.
A coincidence?
And today, we have a team full of these drained players.
And then people here wonder: how come that we don't run anymore? Is EV an idiot? Why doesn't he have a plan.

A test: imagine if you have Raki, Busi and Arda.
All physically and mentally drained players.
And you are a coach.
How to make them run and press for 90 minutes/60 times per season, lol?
They will run for 30 minutes and start walking after that.
And then fans would say: this new guy is an idiot: why isn't our team pressing? Why doesn't he have any plan?
Again=lol. These players can't run.
And then again we have to go back to my long post:
Messi has to play. He is not pressing.
Suarez is his friend and Messi needs a no9.
Those 2 don't press.
But then you need Raki-Busi to babysit for them.
And those 2 can't press because they are old, slow and tired.
They will babysit positionally, but they won't press and Raki will be bad in a build up.
And now you have 4 players who don't press.
If you remove Raki-Busi: you get more pressing from Arthur-Alena, but you lose 2 babysitters positionally in defense.
So, again: do you want to lose in THIS or THAT way?
There is NO WINNING way.

Klopp and Pep are smart.
They take a team who is rich, young, motivated.
And they buy players who can pass, run, press and defend.
Then they get 120% out of them in 4 years.
Then those coaches run away because they know that their team is finished.
And then you have naive coaches like Lucho, EV and similar who are trying to do something with that sinking ship.

Pep and Klopp would never take a team like a current Barca.
Because players are old, mentally drained, tired and damaged.
Even 10 Klopps and Peps couldn't make this team run for more than 3 matches.

 

[mc_lovin]

Jesus, you are negative ;D

I dont think our future is that bleak. We are one midfielder away from having one of the best midfields in world football again, a very young one as well. And that midfielder doesnt even need to be a standout player, but a good counterpart to Arthur and Frenkie - maybe a real workhorse, not freaking Rakitic. Our attack is a mess, but one good fit can turn that around as well.

The funny thing about you is that you are so adament about our shit, worn out players >30 and ironically you defend Rakitic to absolute ridiculous degrees. Without Rakitic (and Suarez in more of a part time role) our team looks much younger already. We obviously wont reach 2009-2015 heights, but to look better than the shit we are served right now should be our goal at least, which really isnt too unrealistic.


No idea why you have such a defeatist attitude @BBZ.

 

[BBZ8800]

Jesus, you are negative ;D

I dont think our future is that bleak. We are one midfielder away from having one of the best midfields in world football again, a very young one as well. And that midfielder doesnt even need to be a standout player, but a good counterpart to Arthur and Frenkie - maybe a real workhorse, not freaking Rakitic. Our attack is a mess, but one good fit can turn that around as well.

I like you as a poster, but this is such a dumbing down of everything.
When you say that we are one midfielder away from having one of the best midfields, remember that this is a team sport.
Busi-Xavi-Iniesta weren't good ONLY because they were good as a trio.
They were good because they had 3 attackers who moved, dropped back and created with them, plus they had "a false midfielder" in a RB Dani Alves.
So, our magic in Pep's days came from a creative effort of 7 players (3 attackers, 3 midfielders, Dani Alves).

Now, just a test.
Imagine that a time travelling is possible.
And we bring back prime Xavi-Iniesta-Busi into today.
And now, imagine a lineup: Griezz-Suarez-Messi, magic 3, and let's say Alba and Semedo on flanks.
If you pass to Suarez, he will ruin every action.
If you pass to Semedo, nothing will ever happen.
If you pass to Messi, he will be playing somewhere deep at a CM position.
Or imagine pressing: Xavi, Busi and Iniesta are pressing.
But Suarez is walking and waving his hands.
Messi is sulking and fixing his beard.
So, even if you check creation and pressing, we would be probably 50% weaker in both areas even with Xavi-Iniesta-Busi today here.

So, NO. I don't think that we are 1 midfielder away from a functional team.
We are 5 players away from a weaker copy of Pep's system (3 attackers, 1 midfielder and 1 RB).
Even so, if you think that we have Frenkie and Arthur today, remember that Arthur played 45% of matches in these 2 seasons.
So, if CL semis comes, and Arthur is sidelined for unknown reasons, that means that you need 6 players to create a weaker copy of Pep's system.

The funny thing about you is that you are so adament about our shit, worn out players >30 and ironically you defend Rakitic to absolute ridiculous degrees. Without Rakitic (and Suarez in more of a part time role) our team looks much younger already. We obviously wont reach 2009-2015 heights, but to look better than the shit we are served right now should be our goal at least, which really isnt too unrealistic.
No idea why you have such a defeatist attitude @BBZ.

About Rakitic, my view is that we are LESS BAD with him over a course of a season.
He is not the answer for Anfield.
But neither is any other option.
And with him (and Busi), we can at least win La Liga.
Which again, I am not sure whether we can win it with other options since we are even more chaotic without them (remember away matches early in this season and almost being KOd in a group stage of a CL).

Why am I so negative?
Well, if you are a younger fan, even you have learned something in the past 2 years when we bought Dembele and Malcom.
2-3 years ago, you probably thought: these guys are awesome.
Now, after seeing 2 guys like them, would you buy easily Sancho or would you be more CAUTIOUS this time?

Or, when you have seen 3-4-5 young La Masia talents who failed.
When we will have a 6th guy, would you be still 100% optimistic or will you be more cautious in the 6th case?

Well, I have seen 100s of Puigs over the last 25+ of watching football.
20s Dembeles and Malcoms.
And lots of teams like Milan, Juve, Barca, Galacticos, Ferguson's United who were in the same situation where we are now.

Each case is of course, somewhat unique.
But if you had 5 Puigs and they all failed, you can be 90% sure about the 6th Puig how will his career develop.
If you have seen numerous Galacticos and Milans who went through the same process as a current Barca, should I be a false optimistic and pretend that we are: one midfielder away from greatness, that everything could be fixed with a manager who knows how to press or that Alena/Puig can't be worse than current players?

Look, I am negative (and I would say realistic).
But I am still finding joy in watching Barca and football.
I am happy watching even current Barca and EV.
Imo, our future is not bright and will be way worse than now.
But still, I will survive even if we won't win anything for 10 or 20 years. (Messi2140 or someone could say: oh, so you are fine with mediocrity?)
No, I don't want us to be mediocre.
But do you think that a current Milan or Man Utd wanted to be where they are today?
Of course they didn't.
But they went through the same: a team who won too much and lasted for too long.
And then they had a couple of bad presidents, bad sporting directors, bad coaches, unlucky transfers, money wasted on wrong players, dry youth academy products and=this is where they are now.

The only good thing about our future is that we are insanely rich.
We will need a new team with lots of new players.
The only question now is: whether we will be able to buy/create a new team in 3, 5, 10 or 20 years?

Also remember: other teams are not idiots.
They also have money.
We can't buy whomever we want.
La Masia is dry because we cheated and today everyone can copy La Masia's system of training.
Regarding scouting of young players, everyone have scouts today, and I would say that we aren't too good in that area.
Other teams are using psychology, psychological profiles, IQ, physique, science, numbers, stats when buying players. We still rely mostly on technique and on players whom we see in La Liga (Dani Parejo).

When we turned into a current Barca (since 2004):
1. we had a better president
2. Txiki was a sporting director (he is now at City). He knew how to pick players
3. we were lucky with La Masia, plus we used to have a monopoly back then and we cheated with buying tons of foreign kids which is not allowed
4. if it was today, maybe we would never be able to get Iniesta or Busi, for example. Today all Spanish teams are scouting for local players
5. if it was today, maybe we would never be able to get young Messi. Maybe he would have been caught by current rich teams as Psg, City, Liverpool, Bayern, Red Bull etc.

So, when you look at things in a more objective way: circumstances behind our rise since 2003-2004 were very different.
We are in a way weaker position today (La Masia, monopoly over Spanish youths, more rich European teams, rich EPL teams, worse board/directors/coaches).
So, we are not 1 midfielder away from a great team.
We are like 10 different factors away from Pep's era.
Majority of those factors will never return in our favor (La Masia foreign kids, La Masia monopoly over Spanish kids, EPL wasn't rich, oil clubs didn't exist back then, Italian Seria A who were the strongest league from 1990-2004 was dead back then so it was easier to steal all big names and to rise and dominate in Europe).
So, imo, even if we would do EVERY SINGLE thing perfectly from today, we will never rich a level from 2009.
And then, if you add Barto, his directors, our granny team... this could easily turn into Mand Utd/Milan, except that we are richer and we have only 2 or 3 big clubs in our league so we can't fall lower than the 3rd place.
I hope that you understand now why I am less optimistic than you.

 

[messi2140]

BBZ , did you just call someone out for dumbing down things ?

 

[mc_lovin]

I like you as a poster, but this is such a dumbing down of everything.
When you say that we are one midfielder away from having one of the best midfields, remember that this is a team sport.
Busi-Xavi-Iniesta weren't good ONLY because they were good as a trio.
They were good because they had 3 attackers who moved, dropped back and created with them, plus they had "a false midfielder" in a RB Dani Alves.
So, our magic in Pep's days came from a creative effort of 7 players (3 attackers, 3 midfielders, Dani Alves).

Of course my post was rather simplistic. But you missed my point. Its not about reaching Guardiolas heights. You dont need 5 all time greats (Alves, Busquets, Xavi, Iniesta, Messi) to play decent football. Its not about creating a weak copy as well. A physical DM+Frenkie alone would be completely different to Guardiolas appraoch irregardless of the 3rd midfielder. And you are right, football is a team sport, but whats your point here exactly? That prime Buquets-Xavi-Iniesta would be irrelevant if we dont have a good attack? ;D So, just give up on one part of the team as long as the team as a whole is not fixed? Step by step... we cant fix it all in one go. And you are forgetting that pretty much every other team has their issues as well.

Of our older guard (Busquets, Rakitic, Messi, Alba, Pique and Suarez) Rakitic and Suarez (to a degree, hes still very valuable, just inconsistent as fuck) are the obvious ones to get rid of first. And in Rakitics case thats precisely what Valverde tried this season. Injuries obviously ruined that, but we have to try and depend on younger guys like Arthur. But its a learning experience, the potential is there. It wont be perfect from the start and him missing like 50% of our games is a big concern, but discarding him would be unreasonable. We just need better luck, a bit like with Iniesta back then.

Regarding our attack: its a mess. Griezmann, Coutinho and Dembele were all shit transfers for different reasons, but our biggest problem has been the combination of Suarez and Messi together (a bit like in midfield the combination of Busquets and Rakitic). If we find a good alternative to Suarez we are down to one "walker". Same in midfield where one good transfer can make a world of difference.

Regarding Semedo, yeah hes a bit shit, I agree. And I actually prefer Roberto, but our defense line is our least concern for now. We can survive with Semedo, Roberto and Alba. A new cb would be nice, but normally you find those the easiest.


That makes two essential transfer in my oponion and we are good enough to compete (heck, we are even competing right now). The future is not half as sinister as you make it out to be. And every (!!!) other team has their issues as well. Just dont expect perfection.

 

[JohnN]

I like you as a poster, but this is such a dumbing down of everything.
When you say that we are one midfielder away from having one of the best midfields, remember that this is a team sport.
Busi-Xavi-Iniesta weren't good ONLY because they were good as a trio.
They were good because they had 3 attackers who moved, dropped back and created with them, plus they had "a false midfielder" in a RB Dani Alves.
So, our magic in Pep's days came from a creative effort of 7 players (3 attackers, 3 midfielders, Dani Alves).

Now, just a test.
Imagine that a time travelling is possible.
And we bring back prime Xavi-Iniesta-Busi into today.
And now, imagine a lineup: Griezz-Suarez-Messi, magic 3, and let's say Alba and Semedo on flanks.
If you pass to Suarez, he will ruin every action.
If you pass to Semedo, nothing will ever happen.
If you pass to Messi, he will be playing somewhere deep at a CM position.
Or imagine pressing: Xavi, Busi and Iniesta are pressing.
But Suarez is walking and waving his hands.
Messi is sulking and fixing his beard.
So, even if you check creation and pressing, we would be probably 50% weaker in both areas even with Xavi-Iniesta-Busi today here.

So, NO. I don't think that we are 1 midfielder away from a functional team.
We are 5 players away from a weaker copy of Pep's system (3 attackers, 1 midfielder and 1 RB).
Even so, if you think that we have Frenkie and Arthur today, remember that Arthur played 45% of matches in these 2 seasons.
So, if CL semis comes, and Arthur is sidelined for unknown reasons, that means that you need 6 players to create a weaker copy of Pep's system.



About Rakitic, my view is that we are LESS BAD with him over a course of a season.
He is not the answer for Anfield.
But neither is any other option.
And with him (and Busi), we can at least win La Liga.
Which again, I am not sure whether we can win it with other options since we are even more chaotic without them (remember away matches early in this season and almost being KOd in a group stage of a CL).

Why am I so negative?
Well, if you are a younger fan, even you have learned something in the past 2 years when we bought Dembele and Malcom.
2-3 years ago, you probably thought: these guys are awesome.
Now, after seeing 2 guys like them, would you buy easily Sancho or would you be more CAUTIOUS this time?

Or, when you have seen 3-4-5 young La Masia talents who failed.
When we will have a 6th guy, would you be still 100% optimistic or will you be more cautious in the 6th case?

Well, I have seen 100s of Puigs over the last 25+ of watching football.
20s Dembeles and Malcoms.
And lots of teams like Milan, Juve, Barca, Galacticos, Ferguson's United who were in the same situation where we are now.

Each case is of course, somewhat unique.
But if you had 5 Puigs and they all failed, you can be 90% sure about the 6th Puig how will his career develop.
If you have seen numerous Galacticos and Milans who went through the same process as a current Barca, should I be a false optimistic and pretend that we are: one midfielder away from greatness, that everything could be fixed with a manager who knows how to press or that Alena/Puig can't be worse than current players?

Look, I am negative (and I would say realistic).
But I am still finding joy in watching Barca and football.
I am happy watching even current Barca and EV.
Imo, our future is not bright and will be way worse than now.
But still, I will survive even if we won't win anything for 10 or 20 years. (Messi2140 or someone could say: oh, so you are fine with mediocrity?)
No, I don't want us to be mediocre.
But do you think that a current Milan or Man Utd wanted to be where they are today?
Of course they didn't.
But they went through the same: a team who won too much and lasted for too long.
And then they had a couple of bad presidents, bad sporting directors, bad coaches, unlucky transfers, money wasted on wrong players, dry youth academy products and=this is where they are now.

The only good thing about our future is that we are insanely rich.
We will need a new team with lots of new players.
The only question now is: whether we will be able to buy/create a new team in 3, 5, 10 or 20 years?

Also remember: other teams are not idiots.
They also have money.
We can't buy whomever we want.
La Masia is dry because we cheated and today everyone can copy La Masia's system of training.
Regarding scouting of young players, everyone have scouts today, and I would say that we aren't too good in that area.
Other teams are using psychology, psychological profiles, IQ, physique, science, numbers, stats when buying players. We still rely mostly on technique and on players whom we see in La Liga (Dani Parejo).

When we turned into a current Barca (since 2004):
1. we had a better president
2. Txiki was a sporting director (he is now at City). He knew how to pick players
3. we were lucky with La Masia, plus we used to have a monopoly back then and we cheated with buying tons of foreign kids which is not allowed
4. if it was today, maybe we would never be able to get Iniesta or Busi, for example. Today all Spanish teams are scouting for local players
5. if it was today, maybe we would never be able to get young Messi. Maybe he would have been caught by current rich teams as Psg, City, Liverpool, Bayern, Red Bull etc.

So, when you look at things in a more objective way: circumstances behind our rise since 2003-2004 were very different.
We are in a way weaker position today (La Masia, monopoly over Spanish youths, more rich European teams, rich EPL teams, worse board/directors/coaches).
So, we are not 1 midfielder away from a great team.
We are like 10 different factors away from Pep's era.
Majority of those factors will never return in our favor (La Masia foreign kids, La Masia monopoly over Spanish kids, EPL wasn't rich, oil clubs didn't exist back then, Italian Seria A who were the strongest league from 1990-2004 was dead back then so it was easier to steal all big names and to rise and dominate in Europe).
So, imo, even if we would do EVERY SINGLE thing perfectly from today, we will never rich a level from 2009.
And then, if you add Barto, his directors, our granny team... this could easily turn into Mand Utd/Milan, except that we are richer and we have only 2 or 3 big clubs in our league so we can't fall lower than the 3rd place.
I hope that you understand now why I am less optimistic than you.

But even with this drained out team of elders and bad presidents coaches, sporting directors etc, we were one goal away from another CL final and most probably victory. That was without FDJ and Griezmann. Which should mean that with a better coach, even this shadow of the legendary Barca would still be able to do that one more step. How is this far fetched?

Who on their right mind would expect our current team, or any team at this point, to reach Barca's 2009 Level of perfection. This is not what people are asking or expecting.