Joan Laporta

[JamDav1982]

If you think a manager with an average tactical application on the game can really develop players to the level required at Barca, you're clueless. If you think Koeman is top in the tactical area, you're just as clueless.

Nah you are clueless as per usual.

Koeman has developed players at Barca and before.

Vast majority of top young players do not come through the elite 'tactical' coaches.

Shite point that makes no sense as usual.

 

[serghei]

Nah you are clueless as per usual.

Koeman has developed players at Barca and before.

Vast majority of top young players do not come through the elite 'tactical' coaches.

Shite point that makes no sense as usual.

First let's see him winning a game vs a comparable club. Managed to even lose at home 0-3 to the worst Juve in a decade.

 

[JamDav1982]

First let's see him winning a game vs a comparable club. Managed to even lose at home 0-3 to the worst Juve in a decade.

Differnt point.

Players develop under all different kinds of coaches and vast, vast majority nowhere near an 'elite' tactical coach.

Nice deflecting.

 

[serghei]

Differnt point.

Players develop under all different kinds of coaches and vast, vast majority nowhere near an 'elite' tactical coach.

Nice deflecting.

Sure, both a Ferrari and a turtle achieve the goal of forward motion. At different levels.

 

[JamDav1982]

Sure, both a Ferrari and a turtle achieve the goal of going forward. At different levels.

There we go as expected.

Players like Pedri develop massively under Koeman but 'reasons' nothing to do with the coach.

 

[FinBarcelonafan]

Nah you are clueless as per usual.

Koeman has developed players at Barca and before.

Vast majority of top young players do not come through the elite 'tactical' coaches.

Shite point that makes no sense as usual.

I agree with this. Players can still develop even if the manager isn't tactically genius.

 

[serghei]

There we go as expected.

Players like Pedri develop massively under Koeman but 'reasons' nothing to do with the coach.

I just told you. Playing young players who have talent is already enough to see improvement. The higher the talent the more it is visible. But it's not enough. It's simply not. You reach a point where the player needs a better manager to inspire him and give him better tactics.

Pedri and Koeman is already platoeing as a manager-player relationship. People already are building more anticipation and expectations from him. Koeman can't give him anything more than what he already gave him in his first season.

 

[wisconsincule]

You can't just keep Koeman, because you lose time, time in which you can develop these youngsters to play the modern stuff they should be playing. It's actually the perfect time to bring in a long-term manager and give him 1-2 seasons of low pressure to get the foundation going in the right direction.

Do you have anyone in mind to lead that project? All signs point to Xavi but how do we know he is that guy? I highly doubt he?s going to be the second coming of Pep.

We have pigeon holed ourselves to managers who have some sort of connection to Barca. At some point if we want to sign a true world class manager we need to step outside of that box.

 

[serghei]

We have pigeon holed ourselves to managers who have some sort of connection to Barca. At some point if we want to sign a true world class manager we need to step outside of that box.

Most of the top-class managers have connections to Barca style and probably all cited it as a big influence in their managing career. The big mistake IMO was going simply after ex-Barca players rather than managers who have the vision to implement many of the ideas of play that we popularized in Europe. We ditched that.

Someone like Tuchel is 10 times more Barca-like manager than Koeman. Even though Koeman is a Barca legend and Tuchel never set foot in the club. It's all about ideas. Not actually playing for a club. Of course, the chances to be invested in a way of playing is more likely if you've been part of a club that shares it institutionally for so long. But it's not a rule.

If we have money to build a team made of world superstars we can pick a manager who is more conservative and focus on the ability of that manager to govern the locker-room. You can do without much tactical-ability from the manager, because the players are exceptional. I'm sure that if in some parallel universe Koeman gets at Barca in a stable period with mature superstars, he could have been very successful, not much different than Lucho's era in terms of results.

But if you don't have that luxury, you need managers who add a lot of value in a team. Basic conservative manager won't bring you much in this scenario, nor is handling a locker-room. This is a key point when you have big, bold players with an ego to handle. When you have talented kids, managing a locker-room gets easier, but your tactical ability has to dictate your managerial trajectory.

 

[vegitot]

So if Pedri plays better this season, is it his own talent or Koeman's coaching???

Btw, De Jong plays his best under Koeman so saying Koeman doesn't do anything to develop his players is not true.

 

[serghei]

So if Pedri plays better this season, is it his own talent or Koeman's coaching???

Btw, De Jong plays his best under Koeman so saying Koeman doesn't do anything to develop his players is not true.

It's almost impossible that he will play better IMO, he will follow a linear trajectory from now until we replace the manager with someone better. Look at the situations on the field. I'm more worried people will start to blame him more and more as he will be unable to shine in this poor system. He is not fast enough to beat players individually, and the tactics are not good enough to allow him key passes each game. He will spend a lot of time passing the ball sideways and he will try. We have to lower our expectations with him for the time being.

The only players who will shine are flair players like Depay with plenty of ability to beat players in individual actions. Pedri has none of that as he is a pretty slow player. The midfielders don't get enough from the manager. Look at the Getafe game. We should have bossed that midfield, and yet Getafe looked to control the game for big spells.

 

[vegitot]

It's almost impossible that he will play better IMO, he will follow a linear trajectory from now until we replace the manager with someone better. Look at the situations on the field. I'm more worried people will start to blame him more and more as he will be unable to shine in this poor system. He is not fast enough to beat players individually, and the tactics are not good enough to allow him key passes each game. He will spend a lot of time passing the ball sideways and he will try. We have to lower our expectations with him for the time being.

The only players who will shine are flair players like Depay with plenty of ability to beat players in individual actions. Pedri has none of that as he is a pretty slow player. The midfielders don't get enough from the manager. Look at the Getafe game. We should have bossed that midfield, and yet Getafe looked to control the game for big spells.

Too early to say Pedri will not play better, even under Koeman's poor tactic. Sure Koeman gives him different role and responsiblity than Lucho. Pedri has enough of flair. Just he plays in a role that doesn't require it much.

Slow players can take on his opponents if he is skilled enough. Pedri shows it before. Now he doesn't try to attempt it.

 

[serghei]

manager Marco rose from bundesliga

Dortmund already. Might as well stay at Dortmund and prove himself to succeed Naggelsmann at Bayern.

 

[serghei]

Too early to say Pedri will not play better, even under Koeman's poor tactic. Sure Koeman gives him different role and responsiblity than Lucho. Pedri has enough of flair. Just he plays in a role that doesn't require it much.

Slow players can take on his opponents if he is skilled enough. Pedri shows it before. Now he doesn't try to attempt it.

He doesn't have flair imo. He has passing ability, but that is trimmed off by poor and/or chaotic movement around him as is the case with the technical good-passer midfielder who lack 1 vs 1 ability.

Under Koeman, the midfielders who can make the best progress are box to box. Players who combine defensive output like tackles, interceptions etc., with shots and goals at the other end. Koeman's style is direct, no wonder he spent some years in England, I can see why teams there gave him a shot. Players with a good understanding of possession and players who are comfortable dictating the play in more neutral build-up areas will suffer or at least they won't develop at a fast rate. These are CM types, like Pedri. No wonder he instructs the CMs to go up and act like AMs. The CM position is a bit lost on Koeman as is the role of controlling the flow of the game.

Pedri will never be a world-class AM or a box-to-box, he lacks some key athletic abilities that would allow him to quickly appear in the box and score many goals (for midfielder standards). He is a CM. And would suit a system where more control is given to the midfield. This is imo the weakest part of Koeman. He seems to not have a clue how to set up a dominant midfield in terms of possession. Our games look like roller-coasters, often with weaker sides dominating us in midfield.

This is entertaining sometimes, and competitive, but games vs Getafe and Granada should be one-sided when looking at these teams and Barca. They are so competitive and end to end because Koeman sucks at setting up a controlling midfield. He pushes so midfielders so high up that the midfield is under-manned and weak in support.

 

[vegitot]

He doesn't have flair imo. He has passing ability, but that is trimmed off by poor and/or chaotic movement around him as is the case with the technical good-passer midfielder who lack 1 vs 1 ability.

Under Koeman, the midfielders who can make the best progress are box to box. Players who combine defensive output like tackles, interceptions etc., with shots and goals at the other end. Koeman's style is direct, no wonder he spent some years in England, I can see why teams there gave him a shot. Players with a good understanding of possession and players who are comfortable dictating the play in more neutral build-up areas will suffer or at least they won't develop at a fast rate. These are CM types, like Pedri. No wonder he instructs the CMs to go up and act like AMs. The CM position is a bit lost on Koeman as is the role of controlling the flow of the game.

Pedri will never be a world-class AM or a box-to-box, he lacks some key athletic abilities that would allow him to quickly appear in the box and score many goals (for midfielder standards). He is a CM. And would suit a system where more control is given to the midfield. This is imo the weakest part of Koeman. He seems to not have a clue how to set up a dominant midfield in terms of possession. Our games look like roller-coasters, often with weaker sides dominating us in midfield.

This is entertaining sometimes, and competitive, but games vs Getafe and Granada should be one-sided when looking at these teams and Barca. They are so competitive and end to end because Koeman sucks at setting up a controlling midfield. He pushes so midfielders so high up that the midfield is under-manned and weak in support.

Pedri has flairs. His days at Las Palmas, youth NT, first few months at Barca or even in Euro with Spain show it. He doesn't lack of 1v1 ability, just he doesn't try to attempt it often at Barca except when he first arrived here. His game vs Juventus is a Iniesta/Zidane dribble style. Or this
https://youtu.be/k4DMn9UOjtY

He now plays in a role that doesn't require his flair, and in a team like you describe.