Joan Laporta

Messigician

Senior Member
Ok, let's agree that I don't think that Pep is an idiot, that he is that bad, that his football is that bad etc.
I am just pissed at a cult following of 2008-2011 and on illusions which came from that era (some of them: we are more than a club, we don't buy a team = we produce it, lol or: La Masia is golden).
On top of those illusions, among our fans we have heavily overrating of everything from that era, where (only) our fans consider it as the best team ever, where Iniesta is ranked among Top 2-3 midfielders of all time and similar.
So, that era was one of the best of all time, but everything around it is overhyped at least a double among our fans.

Now, regarding Pep and our football.
For years, for majority of our fans, Barca's style is = Pep's style.
Which I don't agree since for example, Rijkaard's style was different, with more height, more counters, long shots, more corners, more crosses, more long balls, and less of Pep's mathematical football where he moved towards more possession-tiki-taka-triangles perfection and played less of long balls, long shots, true corners, crosses + headers. And of course, he "invented" Iniesta/David Silva type of players where Pep's favorite midfield and attacking line would consist of 6 David Silvas.
Further, he moved away from a No9 and he traded it for a mobile No9, false 9 or a midfielder at a no9 to get more movement and triangles.
So, while Pep's football in it's core is very similar to what we have played since 1991, but deep down it is a different version of Barca's football prior to Pep.

Now, regarding Pep's era, we often say: we shouldn't compare Pedri, Frenkie or anyone with Xavi or Iniesta because no one will be a new Xavi.
Maybe we should set the new rule: don't compare anyone with Pep in terms of Barca's football.
My point is: WHAT IF, as I am saying for years = our football in general is meh and not too good for the highest level, which stats are confirming?
Rememeber that since 1899 to 2006, we won only 1 CL.
Since 1990, we played Cruijff's football, yet during 16 years until 2006, we had one lucky CL win in 1992, one 0:4 defeat against Milan in 1994 and more or less group stage KOs, or quarterfinal defeats year after year against ANYONE.
So, if Cruijff's football from 90s is that good, why did we suck at it until 2006?

Further, the same with Spanish football. Till 2008, they had one final in 100 years of their history.
How on Earth can we claim that Spanish type of technical football is a successful football then?

And here is the answer: WHAT IF BOTH Barca's and Spanish football are historically meh but they reached World class status due to 3 factors:
1. the only coach in the world who can make that style work perfectly = Pep
2. the best midfielder of all time for that style, Mr TikiTaka himself = Xavi (paired with Iniesta)
3. GOAT in his prime who was again paired = with the best coach for this style (Pep), the best midfielder ever for this style (Xavi), second best midfielder for this style (Iniesta)?

Now, if you analyze it deeper, you can see that BOTH Spain and Barca worked perfectly only in a short time span from 2008-2012, when we had:
1) Pep, prime Xavi, prime Iniesta, prime Messi at Barca
2) prime Xavi and prime Iniesta/Busi at Spain

And now, 90% of our fans (ok, this is my estimation) believe differently.
They don't think that Pep's era is an exception, but a rule.
Aka = Pep's football and how we played is something normal/given.
While for me, Pep's era is a freak incident when you consider how shit both Barca and Spain were since 1900 with our style of playing.

And now, for years, we have fans, socios and presidents who try to replicate Pep's era.
But my opinion is = we will never be able to replicate it.
And then people reply: ok, we don't need to be as good as back then, it will be good enough if we just come CLOSE to it.
BUt when Barca was close to it (pre Pep) and Spain (pre Xavi and post Xavi), they haven't won shit.
So, my question is: is a budget version of Pep's football good enough for anything except La Liga here and there?
I don't think so.

About Pep/Xavi/Messi/Barca/Spain, look at this:
Spain:
era 2008-2012:
Number of tournaments in total: 3
Wins: 3 out of 3

Barca:
2008-2012:
Number of CL attempts: 4
Wins: 2 out of 4

So, during that era, which for me is a freak accident, Barca and Spain combined played 7 big tournaments and won 5 out of 7.

But, now, the funny twist, look at what happened once when Pep-Messi-Xavi weren't together anymore:
Barca after 2012:
9 CL attempts, 1 win
Spain:
4 NT attempts, 0 wins
Pep:
8 CL attempts, 0 wins

So: Pep/Barca/Spain/Messi/Xavi had 5 out 7 wins from 2008-2012.
And after that they have: 21 attempts, 1 win

On the other hand, if we would add stats from pre-Pep/Xavi/Messi, it would look the same.
So, Barca's and Spanish history looks like this in short:
1900-2008: technical, eye pleasing, shit results
2008-2012: everything clicked perfectly, we had both eye pleasing football and results
2012 and later: the same as prior to 2008: technical with more or less shit results

So, again: is Pep's era a real possibility or a freak accident (just like getting Messi once in 100 years)?

Further, you and others often say: we didn't play like Pep at all after 2012.
I'll say: lol.

So, let's analyze it: we had a winning style which was winning every single trophy, and then what? One day we woke up and said: fuck that style, let's play slower, with less pressing, we don't want to win anymore?
You see, my opinion is:
1. we tried to play Pep's style since 2012, but:
1) when Pep left, we lost his brain, and Tito didn't know all of his tricks, so we lost a huge part of our tactical strength
2) teams adjusted to our football, so not only that we lost Pep, but teams learned how to close us down more efficiently than before
3) Xavi got old and we lost the brain, Mr TikiTaka himself and NO ONE in the world can connect the team as well as Xavi

I will make an analogy: you know when we watch Messi today.
And then you open his Youtube clips from 2011.
And then you say: wow, he lost a lot of his pace and dribbles.
And now: does he NOT WANT to play as good as in 2010 anymore or he just CAN'T play that way anymore, so he plays the way he plays?
Well, imo, the same is with Barca.
In 2013, we tried to play Pep's football, but we lost Pep, Tito got sick, Messi was injured.
In 2014, we had a shitty coach, Xavi was old and finished, we had injuries.
In 2015, we had the last dance of a dying team and won a CL with Lucho's style.
After that, Xavi and Iniesta were finished. Busi was half of a player he was. We lost Dani Alves.
All that was left from Pep's era was an older Messi, finished Busi and Pique.
And now, is it really true that we didn't try to play Pep's football anymore?
Or, more likely: we tried, but we were horrible at it, so we played some random mixture of Pep's football, granny style and EV's/Lucho's football.

Regarding Pep, who else played his style successfully for a few years?
No one.
Only Del Bosque, but NT football is different, teams are not well oiled.
Yet, Del Bosque had Xavi-Iniesta-Busi-Pedro-Fabregas-Pique from the same team who all understood TikiTaka and had an awesome chemistry.
And that was a huge advantage over other NT teams who had players from 20 different clubs without any chemistry.

So, who else played good version of Pep's football?
Imo, nobody?
We have a few younger coaches like Tuchel, but they play Pep's football with some newer ideas.
Yet, on Planet Barca, Puig is an awesome player for a lot of fans, turtle slow & always tired & master of hide and seek Pedri is the leader of our future midfield, lol, 173 cm tall Gavi will be a starter, 178 cm Fati will be the next leader after Messi.
Now, look at that core: Pedri-Gavi-Ansu. They are all short and more or less turtle slow.
And then people say: we don't play Pep's football.
Lol, of course.
No one can play Pep's football except Pep. And even he can't do anything with that style in a CL inspite of all Qatari millions.

For the end:
1. we can't play Pep's football without Pep and without players like Xavi/Iniesta. And without Messi to save our asses whenever needed.
We can only play a budget version of Pep's football if we hire let's say Xavi.
But that budget version will struggle to win La Ligas and I won't even mention a CL.
2. then, if we don't play Pep's football, what are the other options?
1) one of them is results oriented football like EV's football.
But our fans want both fun+results.
And even though EV won 2 La Ligas, he didn't offer fun and magic, so our fans hated and ridiculed him.
So, coaches like him are a no-go.
2) then we can play extremely budget version of Pep's football with budget Cruijffista coaches like Setien.
That guy tried to play Pep's football, but that type of football looks ridiculous without prime Pep/Xavi/Messi.
So, budget Pep was even worse than EV.
3) and then, the only option is to play something new.
But then we get to the problem from the start of my post where people don't yet believe that Pep's era was one in a century freak accident and that without him, our style is more or less shit and even shittier in a current era, where everyone took the best ideas from Pep's era and upgraded them with money and physique, yet we stayed on the same place with a budget team.

Now, when you add to this points from my first post:
1. Barcelona is historically much more impulscive and a chaotic club than even Real, Madrid, Juve
2. Barcelona is in the midst of independence issues, so they are emotional, the club is a symbol of Catalonia and that means that they need to stick with history, roots, a good image.
And the best image of Barca/history is = Pep's football, short technical midfielders, Barca DNA, fun football, La Masia.
That again means that we are stuck with chasing Pep's shadows. And if I am right in my estimations from above, then we are screwed with chasing Pep's shadows because we will watch a painfully shitty budget Pep's Barca for years.
3. on top of that, we have 1B debt, and we are stuck with Depays and similar players. How to play Barca's football with him? How to move forward with him?
4. and there's La Masia. A proud Catalan footballing academy that brought joys in the past.
Now add independency issues, emotions, Catalan need for a lot of domestic players due to independency issues (Laporta bought Eric, he has a strange love for Puig, he wanted Dani Olmo back).
So, we are stuck with La Masia and Catalan players.
4. and for the end, there is a problem with La Masia, where they believe that the year is still 2012 and that we are rulling the world with Xavi-Iniesta and triangles.
And all those kids do at La Masia is playing passes and triangles 24/7/365.
None of them is fast, none of them have muscles, none of them can shoot, none of them can defend.
And then you get Nico-Gavi-Puig-Pedri midfield where no one can shoot or dribble.
All they can do is pass, pass, pass till death.
5. for the end, football turned into a street-fighting sport in the last decade, with a lot of aggression and mental strength required.
Yet, from what I see, Catalans are extremely nice/humble/peaceful nation in general. Who don't fight, swear or cause troubles.
That DNA is paired with La Masia where they teach kids to be overly nice and humbe (choirboys), and then you get a team filled with overly nice Catalans who have to play due to independency issues, and yet they are even more humble and nice due to lessons learned in La Masia.
And then they meet dirtier players from Germany, Italy or especially UK and they get bullied insanely.
Then someone will reply: but we were able to win against bullies with Pep.
Well, we are going in circles: Pep-Messi-Xavi was once in a lifetime era and even they struggled against bullies in away KO matches.

All in all, our future is grim, and I am very very pessimistic.

On the other hand, being a part of this community is extremely fun because watching our fans, socios, presidents sticking with our DNA an waiting for how long will they do the same thing until they will move to someone else is extremely fun psychological and sociological experiment.

Our results will be shit, but at least (who want to learn) will be able to learn a lot about a human nature.

So, let's see after many years will people (1 by 1) from this forum will accept that we can't play Pep's football and let's see where we will move one day. If ever until we are alive.

Kisses and hugs :wub::popcom:

Incredible essay! Stunning work as always BBZ
 

BBZ8800

Senior Member
Same for Spain, really. They adapted the Barcelona style in 2008 (just for the sake of the argument), won three titles in a row and fucked up the next 4(!) tournaments... and only looked like the best team once (last Euro). Shame on them. Because it's us vs the unity of France, Germany, Italy, Brazil, Argentina, (...) we got let down again by our style.

About Spain, over 90 minutes:
Euro 2008:
5 wins, 1 draw
World cup 2010:
5 wins, 1 draw, 1 defeat
Euro 2012:
4 wins, 2 draws

Total 2008-2012:
14-4-1
14 wins out of 19 matches over 90 minutes.

After 2012, when Xavi declined:
World cup 2014:
1 wins, 2 defeats
Euro 2016:
2 wins, 2 defeats
World cup 2018:
1 win, 3 draws
Euro 2021:
1 win, 5 draws

Total after 2012:
5-8-3
5 wins out of 16 matches

So, a million dollar question:
How come that BOTH Barca and Spain "supposedly stopped playing Pep's style"?
And why Spanish results dropped from:
14 wins in 19 matches (74% of wins) (2008-2012) and 3 titles
to 5 wins in 16 matches (31% of wins) (2014-) and zero titles.

My point: if Spanish football (influenced by Barca and Pep) is eternal, it should have produced results even without Xavi.
Yet, they can't.
The same as Barca without Pep-Messi-Xavi-Iniesta combo.

So, the truth is more like:
= Spanish/Barca's football is good, but it gets on top only in out of this world combinations where everything clicks perfectly
Instead of:
= it is eternal football and it can work even without Pep/Messi/Xavi

Till now, we don't have proofs for that.
Spain, Barca and Pep can't win big titles without ALL KEY INGREDIENTS.

Also, about JamDav's and some users' reply: how we didn't play Pep's football after 2012?
Lol.

The same could be said about Spain.
Did they wake up one morning and said: we won't play that way anymore since we are too good. Let's play something else.
It is interesting how supposedly BOTH Barca and Spain *stopped* playing Pep's football after 2012.

WHAT IF they still tried to play it, but without key players/coaches/due to age of key players and due to opponents figuring out how to neutralize them => this is what you get.
Some budget version of prime Pep's/Spanish football.

So:
1. why have Spanish results dropped heavily after Xavi's decline?
2. why has Spain stopped playing prime Pep's football after 2012? (the same as us)
 

mc_lovin

Senior Member
So:
1. why have Spanish results dropped heavily after Xavi's decline?
2. why has Spain stopped playing prime Pep's football after 2012? (the same as us)

1. Because they lost an all time great? There is no smooth transition, but Spain have done phenomenally well looking at the latest generation. They know how to produce players (especially midfielders). They have no right to be in contention again statistically speaking, but they are, which confirms that their philosophy is working.

2. Same argument as 1.: there is no smooth transition from an all time great generation (not only Xavi). They suffered with their possession style though while Barcelona tried god knows what (2015 was neat though).
 

JamDav1982

Senior Member
BBZ now claiming Spain and Barca stopped playing Peps football after 2012... when usually claims Barca stuck in past trying to play Peps style and it failing for years.

Constantly flip flops on what he is arguing and tries to hide it in word soup.

BBZ just repeats the same cliches post after post with no basis in reality.

It is all very simple... Spain and Barca got worse as playing squad got worse. Simple.
 
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KingLeo10

Senior Member
About Spain, over 90 minutes:
Euro 2008:
5 wins, 1 draw
World cup 2010:
5 wins, 1 draw, 1 defeat
Euro 2012:
4 wins, 2 draws

Total 2008-2012:
14-4-1
14 wins out of 19 matches over 90 minutes.

After 2012, when Xavi declined:
World cup 2014:
1 wins, 2 defeats
Euro 2016:
2 wins, 2 defeats
World cup 2018:
1 win, 3 draws
Euro 2021:
1 win, 5 draws

Total after 2012:
5-8-3
5 wins out of 16 matches

So, a million dollar question:
How come that BOTH Barca and Spain "supposedly stopped playing Pep's style"?
And why Spanish results dropped from:
14 wins in 19 matches (74% of wins) (2008-2012) and 3 titles
to 5 wins in 16 matches (31% of wins) (2014-) and zero titles.

My point: if Spanish football (influenced by Barca and Pep) is eternal, it should have produced results even without Xavi.
Yet, they can't.
The same as Barca without Pep-Messi-Xavi-Iniesta combo.

So, the truth is more like:
= Spanish/Barca's football is good, but it gets on top only in out of this world combinations where everything clicks perfectly
Instead of:
= it is eternal football and it can work even without Pep/Messi/Xavi

Till now, we don't have proofs for that.
Spain, Barca and Pep can't win big titles without ALL KEY INGREDIENTS.

Also, about JamDav's and some users' reply: how we didn't play Pep's football after 2012?
Lol.

The same could be said about Spain.
Did they wake up one morning and said: we won't play that way anymore since we are too good. Let's play something else.
It is interesting how supposedly BOTH Barca and Spain *stopped* playing Pep's football after 2012.

WHAT IF they still tried to play it, but without key players/coaches/due to age of key players and due to opponents figuring out how to neutralize them => this is what you get.
Some budget version of prime Pep's/Spanish football.

So:
1. why have Spanish results dropped heavily after Xavi's decline?
2. why has Spain stopped playing prime Pep's football after 2012? (the same as us)

:lol: Same way RM's cross and insallah stopped working (as in going deep in CLs or winning them) after they lost prime CR7 and Ramos

Or how Bayern's German DNA didn't work at all from 2001-2010. Seriously, go look up their CL stats. They were worse than Barcelona from 2012-2021.

Or how Brazil's Joga Bonito didn't work from 1970 to 1994 and again since 2002 (almost 20 years no WCs without R9, R10, Rivaldo, R.Carlos and Cafu...I wonder why) :lol:

All clubs/national teams have their ups and downs but here you are trying to make it seem like the world has ended for Barcelona and Spain.
 

serghei

Senior Member
About Spain, over 90 minutes:
Euro 2008:
5 wins, 1 draw
World cup 2010:
5 wins, 1 draw, 1 defeat
Euro 2012:
4 wins, 2 draws

Total 2008-2012:
14-4-1
14 wins out of 19 matches over 90 minutes.

After 2012, when Xavi declined:
World cup 2014:
1 wins, 2 defeats
Euro 2016:
2 wins, 2 defeats
World cup 2018:
1 win, 3 draws
Euro 2021:
1 win, 5 draws

Total after 2012:
5-8-3
5 wins out of 16 matches

So, a million dollar question:
How come that BOTH Barca and Spain "supposedly stopped playing Pep's style"?
And why Spanish results dropped from:
14 wins in 19 matches (74% of wins) (2008-2012) and 3 titles
to 5 wins in 16 matches (31% of wins) (2014-) and zero titles.

My point: if Spanish football (influenced by Barca and Pep) is eternal, it should have produced results even without Xavi.
Yet, they can't.
The same as Barca without Pep-Messi-Xavi-Iniesta combo.

So, the truth is more like:
= Spanish/Barca's football is good, but it gets on top only in out of this world combinations where everything clicks perfectly
Instead of:
= it is eternal football and it can work even without Pep/Messi/Xavi

Till now, we don't have proofs for that.
Spain, Barca and Pep can't win big titles without ALL KEY INGREDIENTS.

Also, about JamDav's and some users' reply: how we didn't play Pep's football after 2012?
Lol.

The same could be said about Spain.
Did they wake up one morning and said: we won't play that way anymore since we are too good. Let's play something else.
It is interesting how supposedly BOTH Barca and Spain *stopped* playing Pep's football after 2012.

WHAT IF they still tried to play it, but without key players/coaches/due to age of key players and due to opponents figuring out how to neutralize them => this is what you get.
Some budget version of prime Pep's/Spanish football.

So:
1. why have Spanish results dropped heavily after Xavi's decline?
2. why has Spain stopped playing prime Pep's football after 2012? (the same as us)

A major problem with your post is the quality of managers post Pep. You can't play total football with fucking Valverde and Koeman, come on... it's obvious. It's a very complex style only a few of the best managers can master.

There is no Barca fluid total football style without an elite manager who can implement it from top to bottom and get everyone in on it. It doesn't play by itself by putting in 11 dudes on the field. It takes a lot of tactics and fiddling in and practice to death. Plus a lot of hard work.

But yes, I agree that this style requires very high-quality players. Higher quality players than other styles. But not Xavi / Iniesta / Messi / Alves levels. Those players didn't just win titles, they defined an era, changed football basically.
 
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KingLeo10

Senior Member
A major problem with your post is the quality of managers post Pep. You can't play total football Barcelona with fucking Valverde and Koeman, come on... it's obvious. It's a very complex style only a few of the best managers can master.

There is no Barca fluid total football style without an elite manager who can implement it from top to bottom and get everyone in on it. It doesn't play by itself by putting in 11 dudes on the field. It takes a lot of tactics and fiddling in and practice to death. Plus a lot of hard work.

But yes, I agree that this style requires very high quality players. Higher quality players of a certain profile than other, more straight forward and simple styles.

All styles require high quality players for success. That's the cake. Look at my post above about the lull periods for Bayern, RM, and Brazil.

The icing, which makes the cake truly unique, is WHICH style is used. Some are really pleasant on the eye and really memorable/legendary (subjective of course) compared to others (Ajax's total football or Guardiola's Barca or Sacchi's Milan or 50s RM).
 

serghei

Senior Member
All styles require high quality players for success. That's the cake. Look at my post above about the lull periods for Bayern, RM, and Brazil.

The icing, which makes the cake truly unique, is WHICH style is used. Some are really pleasant on the eye and really memorable/legendary (subjective of course) compared to others (Ajax's total football or Guardiola's Barca or Sacchi's Milan or 50s RM).

All do, no doubt, but I agree with BBZ that this style is more complex and requires a bit higher level technically. For example, we won't play total football with Henderson and Milner in midfield. Ever.

You need players who are comfortable playing pass and move and can have excellent ball control as well as speed and imagination. A not so easy mix to find.
 

KingLeo10

Senior Member
All do, no doubt, but I agree with BBZ that this style is more complex and requires a bit higher level technically. For example, we won't play total football with Henderson and Milner in midfield. Ever.

I also agree with BBZ on this style require a more specific and more talented batch to execute well.

Also, there was a big segment on Sky Sports a year ago with Neville and Carragher on best English team of all time. They used the following points metric.
https://www.skysports.com/football/...-neville-rank-the-greatest-english-club-sides
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=69ZFRjy0Dcg

Someone ran this metric for all European teams and got the following:

1. Ajax (1970-1973) - 30 pts
2. Barcelona (2008-2011) - 28 pts
=3. Steaua Bucharest (1985-1988), Real Madrid (2015-2018) - 25 pts
=4. Real Madrid (1956-1959), Celtic (1966-1969), Bayern Munich (1973-1976) - 24 pts
=5. Real Madrid (1955-1958), Liverpool (1975-1978) - 23 pts
=6. Real Madrid (1957-1960), Barcelona (2014-2017), Bayern Munich (2017-2020) - 22 pts
=7. Inter (1963-1966) , PSV Eindhoven (1986-1989), Red Star Belgrade (1989-1992), Man Utd (2006-2009) - 21 pts
=8. Benfica (1959-1962), Liverpool (1981-1984), AC Milan (1991-1994), Ajax (1993-1996), Juventus (1995-1998), Man Utd (1998-2001), Porto (2002-2005), Inter (2007-2010) - 20 pts
=9. AC Milan (1987-1990), Real Madrid (1999-2002) - 19 pts
=10. Nottingham Forest (1977-1980), Juventus (1983-1986), Barcelona (1990-1993), AC Milan (1992-1995) - 18 pts
11. Porto (1984-1987) - 16 pts
=12. Stade de Reims (1957-1960), Marseille (1990-1993), AC Milan (2002-2005) - 15 pts

So while the pref of styles is subjective, there also appears to be an objective component - Look at the separation between Ajax and Barcelona and the rest. Hard to execute but legendary/memorable AND highest results at the same time.
 

serghei

Senior Member
I also agree with BBZ on this style require a more specific and more talented batch to execute well.

Also, there was a big segment on Sky Sports a year ago with Neville and Carragher on best English team of all time. They used the following points metric.
https://www.skysports.com/football/...-neville-rank-the-greatest-english-club-sides
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=69ZFRjy0Dcg

Someone ran this metric for all European teams and got the following:

1. Ajax (1970-1973) - 30 pts
2. Barcelona (2008-2011) - 28 pts
=3. Steaua Bucharest (1985-1988), Real Madrid (2015-2018) - 25 pts
=4. Real Madrid (1956-1959), Celtic (1966-1969), Bayern Munich (1973-1976) - 24 pts
=5. Real Madrid (1955-1958), Liverpool (1975-1978) - 23 pts
=6. Real Madrid (1957-1960), Barcelona (2014-2017), Bayern Munich (2017-2020) - 22 pts
=7. Inter (1963-1966) , PSV Eindhoven (1986-1989), Red Star Belgrade (1989-1992), Man Utd (2006-2009) - 21 pts
=8. Benfica (1959-1962), Liverpool (1981-1984), AC Milan (1991-1994), Ajax (1993-1996), Juventus (1995-1998), Man Utd (1998-2001), Porto (2002-2005), Inter (2007-2010) - 20 pts
=9. AC Milan (1987-1990), Real Madrid (1999-2002) - 19 pts
=10. Nottingham Forest (1977-1980), Juventus (1983-1986), Barcelona (1990-1993), AC Milan (1992-1995) - 18 pts
11. Porto (1984-1987) - 16 pts
=12. Stade de Reims (1957-1960), Marseille (1990-1993), AC Milan (2002-2005) - 15 pts

So while the pref of styles is subjective, there also appears to be an objective component - Look at the separation between Ajax and Barcelona and the rest. Hard to execute but legendary/memorable AND highest results at the same time.

But at the same time we do hard work in La Masia teaching these kids how to play the way we want them to play. So it's not exactly random that guys from La Masia are fit to play the Barca way. That's the point.

This should be the way forward. La Masia's best talents, and where we don't have top players coming through, you go on the market and you find the right missing pieces.

La Masia players are highest quality in midfield usually. Then this is the area where you don't go around signing Ardas, Gomes, Pjanic etc. Imo, the midfield should be based on La Masia whenever there are good players coming through. We do need proper signings in central defense and attacking positions.
 
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KingLeo10

Senior Member
But at the same time we do hard work in La Masia teaching these kids how to play the way we want them to play. So it's not exactly random that guys from La Masia are fit to play the Barca way. That's the point.

This should be the way forward. La Masia's best talents, and where we don't have top players coming through, you go on the market and you find the right missing pieces.

La Masia players are highest quality in midfield usually. Then this is the area where you don't go around signing Ardas, Gomes, Pjanic etc. Imo, the midfield should be based on La Masia whenever there are good players coming through. We do need proper signings in central defense and attacking positions.

Agree. IMO, where we should deviate a bit from the "Barca way" is integrating CBs who are athletic and good-great at tackling (don't have to be a meathead EPL defender...but say a Varane type). Ideally good-great on the ball too, but those (VVD or Rio types) are rare.

We concede the softest goals in the CL sometimes and breaking away from the Garcia and Pique (he was WC many seasons but always needed a Puyol/Masche to be that) types will immediately change our fortunes. RM and Bayern almost always have a solid backline which is why they don't fold as much in CL.

Attackers are naturally attracted to Barca...the Barto era was the exception...but even that fraud signed Suarez and Ney didn't he? :lol:
 

serghei

Senior Member
Agree. IMO, where we should deviate a bit from the "Barca way" is integrating CBs who are athletic and good-great at tackling (don't have to be a meathead EPL defender...but say a Varane type). Ideally good-great on the ball too, but those (VVD or Rio types) are rare.

We concede the softest goals in the CL sometimes and breaking away from the Garcia and Pique (he was WC many seasons but always needed a Puyol/Masche to be that) types will immediately change our fortunes. RM and Bayern almost always have a solid backline which is why they don't fold as much in CL.

Yea, no doubt. Even Pep's side in 2011 integrated with ease players like Puyol and Abidal who were really nothing special in terms of passing. You don't have to be Einstein with your passes in every single spot on the field. They were very strong physical defenders and athletic types.
 

JamDav1982

Senior Member
There has been a shift at La Masia and B team for players they bring in.

Physical/quick players have been getting chances with first team much quicker and type of players being brought in to B team has changed as well.

They realised couple years back they were creating one dimensional, nice little players that played well in the system but not out with it. Not being much use in first team.

Since then Ansu, Ilaix, Araujo, Balde, Gavi, Nico all getting chances from B team while the nice little players who the la masia fan boys purr about nowhere to be seen.. Alena, Puig, Jandro, Monchu etc.
 

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