John Stones

khaled_a_d

Senior Member
Read today that there are bids up to 50m for this guy, almost choked on my coffee.
There is nothing more overrated in football, than the individuality of defenders. Certain defenders work for certain teams, yet wouldnt work for other teams.
Anything above 20-25m for a defender is a waste of money and hardly making a noticable difference. Look at ManCity, spending 40-50 on defenders per year, nothig improves at all. Its all about tactics and your teams workrates.

Sign a halfway good defender, from whom you think he'd do well for your team and who isnt too expensive. Someone of the quality of Alderweireld, Sakho, Mustafi or whatever, in case you get them for <25m, that sort of level, that's enough and they'll all do wonderfull if your philosophy enables a stable environment for proper defending. No need to go for Godin, Thiago Silva or whatever, thats not worth it.

This is a huge statement mate ,defenders make hell of a difference for every team . Their individual abilities alone makes tons of difference .
And the prices of defenders are way up . we aren't gonna get top talent defender for under 35M those days (unless you buy him when he is still nobody like RM did with Varane) .
The market is changing and people need to realize that sooner or later or otherwise they will think every deal is overpaid
 

ZenI

Professor Balthazar
Read today that there are bids up to 50m for this guy, almost choked on my coffee.
There is nothing more overrated in football, than the individuality of defenders. Certain defenders work for certain teams, yet wouldnt work for other teams.
Anything above 20-25m for a defender is a waste of money and hardly making a noticable difference. Look at ManCity, spending 40-50 on defenders per year, nothig improves at all. Its all about tactics and your teams workrates.

Sign a halfway good defender, from whom you think he'd do well for your team and who isnt too expensive. Someone of the quality of Alderweireld, Sakho, Mustafi or whatever, in case you get them for <25m, that sort of level, that's enough and they'll all do wonderfull if your philosophy enables a stable environment for proper defending. No need to go for Godin, Thiago Silva or whatever, thats not worth it.

:facepalm:
 

Yannik

Senior Member
This is a huge statement mate ,defenders make hell of a difference for every team . Their individual abilities alone makes tons of difference .
And the prices of defenders are way up . we aren't gonna get top talent defender for under 35M those days (unless you buy him when he is still nobody like RM did with Varane) .
The market is changing and people need to realize that sooner or later or otherwise they will think every deal is overpaid

What I say is that its a waste of money to solve your defensive problems by constantly signing expensive defenders, like City does.
Different players excel in different teams that play to differing strengths and that is because football is a collective sport, where the style and motion of play is driven by the manager's tactics and unity of the squad rather than any individual brilliance. This is especially the case for defenders. If you're having defensive problems, figure whats wrong instead of going all out on the transfermarket for some defender who does well for Team XYZ. He will most likely act different for your team, and might not even make a difference whatsoever, because he was just thrown into a defensive chaos that makes the new defender look just as bad as the one you were trying to replace.
 

Jombi

New member
What I say is that its a waste of money to solve your defensive problems by constantly signing expensive defenders, like City does.
Different players excel in different teams that play to differing strengths and that is because football is a collective sport, where the style and motion of play is driven by the manager's tactics and unity of the squad rather than any individual brilliance. This is especially the case for defenders. If you're having defensive problems, figure whats wrong instead of going all out on the transfermarket for some defender who does well for Team XYZ. He will most certainly act different for your team, and most likely make no difference whatsoever, because he was just thrown into a defensive chaos that makes the new defender look just as bad as the one you were trying to replace.

I agree with this. Defending is all about team effort. I find it cringeworthy when people claim that each time a mistake happens or when we concede a goal, that wouldnt have happened if we had bought defender X or Y.

We would concede plenty of goals and have lots of brainfarts with John Stones as well thats for sure. And he sure isnt worth anything close to 100m euros. The prices for English players are off the charts. Musacchio is far better than this guy and is available for far less. Umtiti is also a much more sensible alternative.
 

DonAK

President of FC Barcelona
I agree with this. Defending is all about team effort. I find it cringeworthy when people claim that each time a mistake happens or when we concede a goal, that wouldnt have happened if we had bought defender X or Y.

We would concede plenty of goals and have lots of brainfarts with John Stones as well thats for sure. And he sure isnt worth anything close to 100m euros. The prices for English players are off the charts. Musacchio is far better than this guy and is available for far less. Umtiti is also a much more sensible alternative.

I guess Baresi, Maldini and later Nesta and co. weren't all that great. The team tactics made them play that well and function as a competent defensive unit.

Some defenders are far better than others and also suits a particular team over other CBs, therefore they're also worth more. I'm not saying John Stones is, but pulling up any defender like Umtiti in all discussions just because he doesn't cost as much as other alternatives doesn't mean he's better. Doesn't necessarily mean he's far worse either, but that's something you need to judge objectively instead of looking at whoscored and squawka stats and go along with the popular opinion of people that barely see a player play for his team, but seem to be experts in that field anyway.
 
Last edited:

Yannik

Senior Member
I guess Baresi, Maldini and later Nesta and co. weren't all that great. The team tactics made them play that well and function as a competent defensive unit.

The first part isnt correct they were fantastic defenders, the 2nd part is. I'm sure that you also notice the resemblance in the names. Italian defenders that played for a Sacchi influenced Milan in a country that stood as a literal fortress for defensive tactics for decades. Would Nesta, Maldini etc have had a similar success, had they played elsewhere? Take both of them, take a defensive line of Maldini, Nesta and even add 2 legendary fullbacks of your favourite choice to that and put this defensive line into Pellegrini's City. Would City have an unbeatable defence now, because they have the most illustrious backline in the history of mankind?
Maybe, or maybe not. Because even though Maldini used to be an exceptional tackler who would probably come out with a victory in 2 of 3 direct 1on1s with a striker, he would still eventually loose the 3rd. And then so-called pundits and fairweather fans will give their superficial views on the situation and blame him for the lsot tackle. And when he gets blamed to often for loosing out tackles, then people would question his ability and talk about replacements instead of figuring "Why the fuck is Maldini facing so many 1on1s in the first place?" The reason is because not only defenders are supposed to "defend", but everyone is, defending is a collective effort. Defensive problems do already start with strikers or midfielders and most importantly the tactics that the coach applied to the team, and those faults of others will eventually lead to defenders finding themselves in unpleasant situations and getting scapegoated.

Of course defenders have their individual differences, but there is a limit to how much this should cost and there is a cost-benefit factor.
If you're some fucking sheikh in Abu Dhabi, you own multiple football clubs, planes and spend your day throwing sales representatives into a pool of imported alligators by pushing some botton that is attached to the ancient saracen-throne you are sitting on, then you can of course go all out and spend 100m on John fucking Stones and pair him up with Godin and Boateng, because you dont give a fuck about costs or benefits, but the impact might still not be the one you expected. Surely Boateng and Godin would probably do slightly better in a chaos-defence than a pairing of Demichelis and Djourou would do, but I wouldnt go up and pay 130m for those minor differences. I'd rather question the coach or the midfielders and even those who score or assist a lot of goals.

If the defence-mechanics of your team look right, then you could even win a CL or a domestic title with 2 Umititi's or some other 20m defender.
Then most probably someone will want to buy your Umtiti for 80m next season, thinking he's the new god of defending.
 
Last edited:

Jombi

New member
I guess Baresi, Maldini and later Nesta and co. weren't all that great. The team tactics made them play that well and function as a competent defensive unit.

Some defenders are far better than others and also suits a particular team over other CBs, therefore they're also worth more. I'm not saying John Stones is, but pulling up any defender like Umtiti in all discussions just because he doesn't cost as much as other alternatives doesn't mean he's better. Doesn't necessarily mean he's far worse either, but that's something you need to judge objectively instead of looking at whoscored and squawka stats and go along with the popular opinion of people that barely see a player play for his team, but seem to be experts in that field anyway.

Stones is so far removed from a legends like Maldini its not even funny. Of course Umtiti is a better alternative than him for Barca at that price. He's the best CB in France together with Thiago Silva and is like a carbon copy of Abidal at that age. He's not some nobody, just because he doesnt play in England. Have you never seen him play or what? Watch his game against PSG or Valencia and see for yourself then. His style fits Barca very well. Very few players people watch in the EPL fit the style Barca play, but they are willing to pay almost anything for them. I miss the times when we used to buy players like Abidal. My first option would be Musacchio but Umtiti would be a close second. People love to pay crazy money for players, so people love the idea of 100m Stones or 70m Laporte, but we have to realize we're Barca, and we have to replace lots of superstars in the coming years which will cost alot of money (probably 600m for Messi and Suarez replacements).

Buying into the Stones hype and getting him for 100m could bankrupt us down the road. We need to be savvy in the market once again. People became obsessed about Benatia and wanted to pay 70m for him a couple of years ago to solve all our CB problems. People had complete tunnel vision with this "we want Benatia at all costs" mentality. It's this type of madness we need to guard against.
 
Last edited:

Jenks

Senior Member
The reason City are poor defensively is because they have no coherent pressing strategy, and they're carrying people like Toure off the ball. Just because a top CB won't fix that problem doesn't mean that top CBs won't make a significant different to a team that is already healthy tactically.
 
Of course defenders have their individual differences, but there is a limit to how much this should cost and there is a cost-benefit factor.
If you're some fucking sheikh in Abu Dhabi, you own multiple football clubs, planes and spend your day throwing sales representatives into a pool of imported alligators by pushing some botton that is attached to the ancient saracen-throne you are sitting on, then you can of course go all out and spend 100m on John fucking Stones and pair him up with Godin and Boateng, because you dont give a fuck about costs or benefits, but the impact might still not be the one you expected. Surely Boateng and Godin would probably do slightly better in a chaos-defence than a pairing of Demichelis and Djourou would do, but I wouldnt go up and pay 130m for those minor differences. I'd rather question the coach or the midfielders and even those who score or assist a lot of goals.


Wow.
 

Trickykid

Active member
If you're some fucking sheikh in Abu Dhabi, you own multiple football clubs, planes and spend your day throwing sales representatives into a pool of imported alligators by pushing some botton that is attached to the ancient saracen-throne you are sitting on, then you can of course go all out and spend 100m on John fucking Stones...

Shiieet!
:worthy:
 

Galning

Moderator
Major fuck up against Swansea which lead to a penalty and the 0-1. I've watched most Everton games this season and I must come to the conclusion that he is very very overrated. Which doesn't make him a bad player but nowhere near as good as some people make him out to be. Nevertheless a good defensive talent but anything above 30M euros is at this point in time not worth the risk. Unless you're PSG, City or Chelski.
 

Trickykid

Active member
Major fuck up against Swansea which lead to a penalty and the 0-1. I've watched most Everton games this season and I must come to the conclusion that he is very very overrated. Which doesn't make him a bad player but nowhere near as good as some people make him out to be. Nevertheless a good defensive talent but anything above 30M euros is at this point in time not worth the risk. Unless you're PSG, City or Chelski.

Been saying the same all season.
Another game, another mistake... Another day at the office for Stones.
 

Home of Barca Fans

Top