Josep Maria Bartomeu

[Flavia]

It is fair to use Messi as an example though as the greatest player ever may not have even made it if these rules were in place at the time.

This is the biggest example of how La Masia has been used to benefit children from all around the world.

Nothing wrong at all with using that Messi example.

Things changed a lot. These rules might be bad, but Messi was legally signed. I don't think using this as an excuse is valid. They broke the law, got the warning to fix things, and decided to defy fifa. And now Barça is banned until Jan/2016.

 

[JamDav1982]

Things changed a lot. These rules might be bad, but Messi was legally signed. I don't think using this as an excuse is valid. They broke the law, got the warning to fix things, and decided to defy fifa. And now Barça is banned until Jan/2016.

Hes not using it as an excuse for breaking the rules - rules that were being broken before they came in anyway.

The argument from the Barcelona end all along is that the rules should be changed as it will be reduce opportunities to children around the world to come in and benefit from moving to bigger football clubs that can take care of them and improve their development.

This view is shared by Laporta and Cruyff who both said the club were right to fight FIFA and try to preserve a large element of what La Masia means.

How would you like them to have reacted to FIFAs request? Release the players involved?

 

[Flavia]

Hes not using it as an excuse for breaking the rules - rules that were being broken before they came in anyway.

The argument from the Barcelona end all along is that the rules should be changed as it will be reduce opportunities to children around the world to come in and benefit from moving to bigger football clubs that can take care of them and improve their development.

This view is shared by Laporta and Cruyff who both said the club were right to fight FIFA and try to preserve a large element of what La Masia means.

How would you like them to have reacted to FIFAs request? Release the players involved?

That's a different discussion, Jamdav. And yes, they should had released the players. It happened, anyway. Those players are still banned. Releasing them could be used to spur a discussion about how stupid the law is.

 

[JamDav1982]

That's a different discussion, Jamdav. And yes, they should had released the players. It happened, anyway. Those players are still banned. Releasing them could be used to spur a discussion about how stupid the law is.

Its not a different discussion - it is the exact reason they are bringing up the name of Messi as he is the shining example of how much La Masia can help and individual.

They are not saying 'Messi was signed against the rules and look at him'. That is not what their point is. They are saying by changing the rules you are denying this chance in the future.

FIFA didnt ask them to release the players anyway. They have banned them from competition and have brought up names of players that are not even there anymore so I doubt releasing them would have made much difference.

I am with Laporta and Bartomeu on this, they are right to fight for what a large part of what La Masia stands for.

 

[Flavia]

Its not a different discussion - it is the exact reason they are bringing up the name of Messi as he is the shining example of how much La Masia can help and individual.

They are not saying 'Messi was signed against the rules and look at him'. That is not what their point is. They are saying by changing the rules you are denying this chance in the future.

FIFA didnt ask them to release the players anyway. They have banned them from competition and have brought up names of players that are not even there anymore so I doubt releasing them would have made much difference.

I am with Laporta and Bartomeu on this, they are right to fight for what a large part of what La Masia stands for.

Discussing the law is different from breaking it, knowing very well you can get sanctioned by this. If the club had abode to fifa's terms, I don't think it would had come to this. Instead, rosell asked for "an exception" and to change the law. If anything, the law should had started to be questioned as soon as it become valid. I don't think breaking the law is the correct way to try to change it. This law is from 2001. Why no one brought forward the discussion before?

 

[JamDav1982]

Discussing the law is different from breaking it, knowing very well you can get sanctioned by this. If the club had abode to fifa's terms, I don't think it would had come to this. Instead, rosell asked for "an exception" and to change the law. If anything, the law should had started to be questioned as soon as it become valid. I don't think breaking the law is the correct way to try to change it. This law is from 2001. Why no one brought forward the discussion before?

I think there was a change to the law to make it official and cast in stone in 2009 rather than more of a FIFA guide line previously. Will need to double check that though.

The law was being broke before this current board even came in to the club. If breaking the law is the issue then the blame for the ban gets shared between this board and the last.

If law was to be questioned as soon as it became valid then more than one board has failed to address that. Although I dont think any board will put forward resources to fighting a law that was not being enforced as long as they were being allowed to break it.

Flavia I can absolutely guarantee that had this board declared in 2010 that they were stopping signing youngsters that may clash with FIFA rules there would have been uproar on here and in press etc about bowing to FIFA and easily giving up one of the core values of La Masia. With people quoting Laporta etc about how it is wrong.

 

[Flavia]

I think there was a change to the law to make it official and cast in stone in 2009 rather than more of a FIFA guide line previously. Will need to double check that though.

The law was being broke before this current board even came in to the club. If breaking the law is the issue then the blame for the ban gets shared between this board and the last.

If law was to be questioned as soon as it became valid then more than one board has failed to address that. Although I dont think any board will put forward resources to fighting a law that was not being enforced as long as they were being allowed to break it.

Flavia I can absolutely guarantee that had this board declared in 2010 that they were stopping signing youngsters that may clash with FIFA rules there would have been uproar on here and in press etc about bowing to FIFA and easily giving up one of the core values of La Masia. With people quoting Laporta etc about how it is wrong.

Better than having a ban like the one we have now. And everything to make fifa look bad, as opposing to what is happening, and maybe getting the law discussed and changed. And they weren't being allowed to break it. They were happy ignoring it, thinking fifa wouldn't have the balls to do anything. And this goes to Laporta too, but rosell could've changed that.

There's a loophole to that law, as well. Just make the parents move to the city for non-footballing reasons. I think rm did it many times.

 

[KingMessi]

There's a loophole to that law, as well. Just make the parents move to the city for non-footballing reasons. I think rm did it many times.

The only thing I don't understand is why players like Ayoub are banned even though their parents have immigrant status and moved to Spain when Ayoub was only 9. Far before he joined Barca's youth team.

 

[JamDav1982]

Better than having a ban like the one we have now. And everything to make fifa look bad, as opposing to what is happening, and maybe getting the law discussed and changed. And they weren't being allowed to break it. They were happy ignoring it, thinking fifa wouldn't have the balls to do anything. And this goes to Laporta too, but rosell could've changed that.

There's a loophole to that law, as well. Just make the parents move to the city for non-footballing reasons. I think rm did it many times.

That loophole has changed. FIFA wont accept parents being given jobs to move their kids.

Nothing this board did was any different to any board since 2001. Any board could have stopped signing those kids - none of them chose to.

Regardless the club did react to when FIFA started to clamp down - they have not played any of the players mentioned in official games and have stopped signing players that break the rules.

This ban relates back to 2009 and if we are to blame the boards then Laportas board and Rosells both take the blame for the ban.

 

[Flavia]

That loophole has changed. FIFA wont accept parents being given jobs to move their kids.

Nothing this board did was any different to any board since 2001. Any board could have stopped signing those kids - none of them chose to.

Regardless the club did react to when FIFA started to clamp down - they have not played any of the players mentioned in official games and have stopped signing players that break the rules.

This ban relates back to 2009 and if we are to blame the boards then Laportas board and Rosells both take the blame for the ban.

The loophole I mentioned is another. It's not the club giving them jobs. It's job for non-footballing reasons.

 

[JamDav1982]

The loophole I mentioned is another. It's not the club giving them jobs. It's job for non-footballing reasons.

If the parent happens to get a job then that would be fine, but FIFA now wont accept anything that reflects parents getting a job in another country just because the club want to sign their son.

Whether it is with the club or not.

If they are suspicious, they wont accept it. Otherwise these rules would be largely pointless.

 

[Flavia]

If the parent happens to get a job then that would be fine, but FIFA now wont accept anything that reflects parents getting a job in another country just because the club want to sign their son.

Whether it is with the club or not.

If they are suspicious, they wont accept it. Otherwise these rules would be largely pointless.

Where did you read this? Are fifa going to investigate every single signing made now? Barça did so many because there was no one watching. Even more difficult to determine why a person got a job overseas. This sounds impossible to prove, and harder to give a sanction for.

 

[JamDav1982]

Where did you read this? Are fifa going to investigate every single signing made now? Barça did so many because there was no one watching.

The FIFA statement of parents being brought across for 'Non footballing reasons' they have made clear relates to parents being given jobs due to their sons being signed by clubs. It doesnt matter what the jobs are.

How will the police it?

Who knows. I would guess part of the Barca ban will be to scare clubs away from doing it. If they receive a complaint and investigate clubs have broke rules they can expect similar bans to Barca.

 

[Flavia]

The FIFA statement of parents being brought across for 'Non footballing reasons' they have made clear relates to parents being given jobs due to their sons being signed by clubs. It doesnt matter what the jobs are.

How will the police it?

Who knows. I would guess part of the Barca ban will be to scare clubs away from doing it. If they receive a complaint and investigate clubs have broke rules they can expect similar bans to Barca.

Sounds more like a bluff. I don't think there's a way for them to prove something like that, and I bet some clubs will keep doing it.

 

[JamDav1982]

Sounds more like a bluff. I don't think there's a way for them to prove something like that, and I bet some clubs will keep doing it.

Its not a bluff. Most of the players mentioned by FIFA in the Barcelona ban have parents that reside in Spain and FIFA has judged those parents only came for footballing reasons - their sons signing for Barcelona and have not accepted them to be legitimate signings under their rules.

Their stance wont be to prove it. Their stance will be for the parents to prove other wise. It cant be that difficult for them to prove as they seem content with the decision on the current Barca youth players.

There are plenty of ways for FIFA to find out and investigate transfers. Clubs report on one another all the time and the number of these types of transfers will drop dramatically.

I doubt many clubs will try to break the rules with a potential two year transfer ban on the table.