Josep Maria Bartomeu

[Flavia]

I thought all of those smaller contracts came out at the time of the transfer, things like that will happen all the time.

Whoever got Neymar it was going to be a messy deal and I dont think they deliberately decided to carry out tax fraud. They would have been given advice that they could get round the tax in other ways.

There is very little chance that Rossel would have deliberately taken the risk to save 10/12m on this transfer when it was going to be his biggest legacy at the club.

Did they make a mistake with the tax? Looks like it as they paid more back. Was this deliberate attempted fraud? For me thats unlikely.

Read this: http://iusport.com/not/4874/la-fisc...a-rosell-y-al-bar-a-por-el-fichaje-de-neymar/

It looks very much intentional.

 

[JamDav1982]

Read this: http://iusport.com/not/4874/la-fisc...a-rosell-y-al-bar-a-por-el-fichaje-de-neymar/

It looks very much intentional.

I cant read Spanish.

No doubt it was intentional to avoid paying tax but I dont believe they were deliberately trying to commit fraud. That is the difference.

Just like the tax cases for the players they thought they had a way round the tax rather than knowingly committing fraud.

When you weigh up what people on the board had to lose it doesnt make sense to deliberately risk that for another 15m euros saved in tax. That they would end up paying anyway.

 

[Flavia]

I cant read Spanish.

No doubt it was intentional to avoid paying tax but I dont believe they were deliberately trying to commit fraud. That is the difference.

Just like the tax cases for the players they thought they had a way round the tax rather than knowingly committing fraud.

When you weigh up what people on the board had to lose it doesnt make sense to deliberately risk that for another 15m euros saved in tax. That they would end up paying anyway.

What is the difference? Seriously... there is not one. Not paying taxes deliberately is commiting fraud. That's why rosell resigned. He knew very well what he did. I don't understand why you go to such lenghts to defend him.

 

[JamDav1982]

What is the difference? Seriously... there is not one. Not paying taxes deliberately is commiting fraud. That's why rosell resigned. He knew very well what he did. I don't understand why you go to such lenghts to defend him.

Its not.

There are legal ways to get round paying tax, it happens all the time and clubs/players have been at it for years.

Not saying they havent made a mistake and will get done for it but just like the Messi case, just like countless cases in UK football clubs try to use loop holes to legally avoid paying tax.

Not defending them and if found guilty deserves to get book thrown at him, but I still dont think it makes any sense for them to be knowingly committing tax fraud.

Edit: Also wouldnt be surprised if the Douglas transfer was in part to try and justify the 'scout' payments and make them seem legit.

 

[Flavia]

Its not.

There are legal ways to get round paying tax, it happens all the time and clubs/players have been at it for years.

Not saying they havent made a mistake and will get done for it but just like the Messi case, just like countless cases in UK football clubs try to use loop holes to legally avoid paying tax.

Not defending them and if found guilty deserves to get book thrown at him, but I still dont think it makes any sense for them to be knowingly committing tax fraud.

They didn't take any "legal" ways to avoid paying taxes. Rosell deliberately had the intention of hiding the real cost of Neymar.

Google translation of the most important part:

Explain that the figures signing "were hidden by the club president and were not included in the annual accounts of the club, approved in October 2013 by the general assembly, although he remarks, at that meeting several partners asked for the actual cost and Rosell insistd on the 57.1 million figure", which was finally reflected in the accounts.

All this strategy was planned by Rosell to accelerate by one year the move for the brazilian, so he was not picked up by another team, which meant more spending, says the prosecutor.

Thus, argues that to reduce this expense, former "devised the operation" so that the club did not pay Hacienda 12.1 million had to be paid as Income Tax for Non Residents.

"To carry out that plan, says the prosecutor and with the intention of hiding the real cost of the player, Alexandre Rosell payment fragment devised various items, for which formalized a series of contracts with Santos FC and Neymar Jr ., with various objects and denominations, however, had the same cause: the signing of Neymar ".

 

[JamDav1982]

They didn't take any "legal" ways to avoid paying taxes. Rosell deliberately had the intention of hiding the real cost of Neymar.

Google translation of the most important part:

Why not just pay 30m to Neymars bank account in Brazil in secret if not trying to make it seem legit? Or some offshore account almost impossible to find.

Why bother fragmenting it and paying it to different companies?

They tried to pass the payments off as legit rather than totally hide them.

Edit: I dont think anyone is saying that the extra 30m paid to Neymars fathers company was left off the accounts rather it was not added to the transfer fee of Neymar.

They went to a lot of bother to try and make the payments seem like they were for other purposes.

 

[mssarm]

As a person who has some experience in the tax field I can say the following: There's a grey area in tax code and tax advisers usually tell you it's a judgment call whether use it or not. Sometimes tax auditor agrees with the way you processed the transaction or disagrees. Let's say if the tax auditor shows up "with extra motivation" most likely you are screwed and there's nothing you can do to get out of it. Ask any tax auditor: They can find problems in any company if they want to do so. I don't believe Rosell was planing a straight fraud, especially considering the fact that he was corporate executive and had experience in these kind of issues. He wasn't that naive to jeopardize his career like that. Most likely Perez used his political influence "to motivate" Hacienda, especially now when Spanish government is so pissed at Catalonia for secession talks. If Sandro committed straight fraud he would have been in the jail already. I see here an agenda to keep the pressure on the club, create distraction and negative image. How many times they tried to drag Messi for tax fraud and nothing proved so far. How about special extension for Ronaldo and transfer ban from FIFA. I don't think it's coincidence.

 

[Leo_Messi]

As a person who has some experience in the tax field I can say the following: There's a grey area in tax code and tax advisers usually tell you it's a judgment call whether use it or not. Sometimes tax auditor agrees with the way you processed the transaction or disagrees. Let's say if the tax auditor shows up "with extra motivation" most likely you are screwed and there's nothing you can do to get out of it. Ask any tax auditor: They can find problems in any company if they want to do so. I don't believe Rosell was planing a straight fraud, especially considering the fact that he was corporate executive and had experience in these kind of issues. He wasn't that naive to jeopardize his career like that. Most likely Perez used his political influence "to motivate" Hacienda, especially now when Spanish government is so pissed at Catalonia for secession talks. If Sandro committed straight fraud he would have been in the jail already. I see here an agenda to keep the pressure on the club, create distraction and negative image. How many times they tried to drag Messi for tax fraud and nothing proved so far. How about special extension for Ronaldo and transfer ban from FIFA. I don't think it's coincidence.

Spot on regardless of Rosell being a crook.

Barto has no legitimacy, as noone voted for him.
When Rosell resigned, decent thing would have been to announce elections.
He's one year late and only did it due to mounting pressure.

You can dissect his actions until tomorrow but you know, in the end, he's gonna be judged on Barca's 2015 spring campaign. Ditching Qatar or Zubi won't mean a thing.
People have short memories and are easily swayed.

Yes, he will mainly be judged on how this season ends as it will be fresh in the memory of everyone but there is simply no way that the socios will look past all the scandals. I for sure will not.

 

[Flavia]

This is the worst case scenario... but it says in that piece of news that, if the club is found guilty of fraud against the hacienda, for crimes commited in 2014, when neymar already lived in bcn, that the penalty could be the banning from activities, closing the doors or the dissolution of the club.

The club released a statement: http://www.fcbarcelona.com/club/det...ona-statement-regarding-prosecutor-s-petition

They're claiming “surprise, indignation and disgareement" of all the accusations.

The current team of lawyers of the club lost every single case so far. It's a bit worrying.


The judge also accepted the fiscalia agent claims, and Bartomeu was indicted. He'll testify in Feb 13th.

 

[pacp_96]

I know that is a worst case scenario which most likely won't happen. But how could this board get our club into such a state that we could be dissolved.

 

[Kohe321]

Wow, the dissolution of the club? The chances of that happening must only be theoretical, but in reality zero right?

This board is seriously the worst in Barca history, what a bunch of frauds and criminals.

 

[Luftstalag14]

This is the worst case scenario... but it says in that piece of news that, if the club is found guilty of fraud against the hacienda, for crimes commited in 2014, when neymar already lived in bcn, that the penalty could be the banning from activities, closing the doors or the dissolution of the club.

The club released a statement: http://www.fcbarcelona.com/club/det...ona-statement-regarding-prosecutor-s-petition

They're claiming “surprise, indignation and disgareement" of all the accusations.

The current team of lawyers of the club lost every single case so far. It's a bit worrying.


The judge also accepted the fiscalia agent claims, and Bartomeu was indicted. He'll testify in Feb 13th.

The paper is El Mundo, the Madrid paper that is keen on blowing BS on us?

 

[Ini8]

You couldn't make this up. What a joke of a board. Yet there are still people defending them.

 

[hardyboy]

should i be worried??

 

[Leo_Messi]

This is the worst case scenario... but it says in that piece of news that, if the club is found guilty of fraud against the hacienda, for crimes commited in 2014, when neymar already lived in bcn, that the penalty could be the banning from activities, closing the doors or the dissolution of the club.

The club released a statement: http://www.fcbarcelona.com/club/det...ona-statement-regarding-prosecutor-s-petition

They're claiming “surprise, indignation and disgareement" of all the accusations.

The current team of lawyers of the club lost every single case so far. It's a bit worrying.


The judge also accepted the fiscalia agent claims, and Bartomeu was indicted. He'll testify in Feb 13th.

This is never going to happen.

As likely as doomsday tomorrow. Let us assume that the club receives a ridiculous penalty then it would just be the last straw that breaks the camel's back. In other words leaving the joke that is the RFEF.

should i be worried??

No.