Kylian Mbappé

[Luftstalag14]

What did you just write there Luft?

Already ahead of Messi's endless trophy cabinet and C. Ronaldo's not worser trophy cabinet due to a single World Cup win? What the hell am I reading?

Because there are lot of people out there who value the WC more than anything else including CL trophies etc. I don't necessarily agree with them but I wanted to address that view.

 

[El Gato]

The new Robinho?

He doesn't even sound like a teenage Robinho whenever he speaks really. That comparison will get buried pretty soon. On the attitude and discipline spectrum he's between young Marcelo and Varane, leaning towards the latter. Will see if it dips when he loses form.

 

[Leo_Messi]

- I’m responding as if people are referring to his potential, when he’s already one of the worlds best attacking players

- I don’t know if you realize this but he’s actively building an ATG resume/career.

- He doesn’t have to be the same exact player, or be better than R9 to be properly recognized for what he’s doing right now. Mind you, I’m not the one that started these comparisons.

Nobody has claimed that this is not the case; him being one of the best attackers in the world already. 2 years ago when he was playing in Monaco, I wrote, on this very forum, that he is set to be one of the most promising players in the world very soon. I actually watched some of his earleist games for Monaco as I greatly enjoyed that Monaco campaign and watched their games as often as I could and whenever I had the time.

I don't know if you realize this but so far Mbappé has played senior football for 2.5 seasons and other than a World Cup win for the most stacked national team by far he has only a Ligue 1 title to his resume as the second most prestigious trophy that he has won. Not sure if you know but 2.5 seasons into any given players career; it is too short to make direct comparisons with all-time greats. At least to most sane people.

Never said anything about that. Each player is his own and will have their own unique career path and career overall. I was specifically reacting to people comparing him with a 20 year old prime and pre-injury R9. I consider such comparisons to be a bit of an insult towards R9 as I rated a 20 year old R9 much higher than I rate Mbappé. Most people who are familiar with both players would probably agree. Can't imagine anything else. To me R9 is the only player that I can genuinely not say, with certainty, was the lesser talent than Messi. That is how much I rate him.

Because there are lot of people out there who value the WC more than anything else including CL trophies etc. I don't necessarily agree with them but I wanted to address that view.

Even if the WC was by far the most prestigious and important team trophy to win (which can easily be argued, mind you), can you honestly say that Mbappé's trophy cabinet comes even close to touching let alone being compared with Messi's or even worse being BETTER than that of Messi? Seriously? Go take a look at the trophies that they have won. Not even going to talk about individual honors that I personally care little about. Same case with C. Ronaldo.

Anyway as I wrote earlier, the World Cup is not as prestigious as it once was when it was the pinnacle of world football. While it is still prestigious, probably still the most prestigious individual team trophy that a player can win, in terms of level a World Cup campaign is of a lower quality, significantly, than your average CL campaign.

 

[Bulgroz]

What I'm interested in seeing is how PSG and Mbappe approach a possible contract extension. Will he commit to a longer contract when talks start next year I'd assume, or will he run his contract down to one year in 2021 and consider his options overseas too.

I'd say his decision will depend A LOT on how PSG will fare in UCL over the next few seasons. I see Mbappe as a very ambitious player, with a clear idea of how he wants his carrer to go. Pretty sure he plans to win his first UCL before turning 23 or something. Pretty sure he also plans on winning several Ballon d'Or. He might win a few by winning WC/Euros with french NT, but that would be a huge risk to only count on the NT. He'll have to win UCLs if he wants to be remembered as one of the best players in history. If PSG looks like a team that can help him achieve his goals, he'll stay. But if they fail miserably several years in a row, I have very few doubts that he'll avoid renewing his contract.

Some people might answer "if he's so ambitious, why did he chose PSG over Madrid in 2017 ?". As I said, he has a clear idea of how his career should go. PSG was a step up after Monaco, but not a huge gap like Madrid would have been (UCL winner, one of the biggest team in the world, in a new country with a new language...). He couldn't take that risk, especially if he wanted to play the WC. He was guaranteed a lot of playing time in a good team, in his country. Back then he was only a wonder kid with a lot to prove. But things are changing for him. His choice in 2017 was a good career move. No doubt he'll put his career above everything else in a few years too. If that means leaving Paris, he'll leave.

 

[Leo_Messi]

I'd say his decision will depend A LOT on how PSG will fare in UCL over the next few seasons. I see Mbappe as a very ambitious player, with a clear idea of how he wants his carrer to go. Pretty sure he plans to win his first UCL before turning 23 or something. Pretty sure he also plans on winning several Ballon d'Or. He might win a few by winning WC/Euros with french NT, but that would be a huge risk to only count on the NT. He'll have to win UCLs if he wants to be remembered as one of the best players in history. If PSG looks like a team that can help him achieve his goals, he'll stay. But if they fail miserably several years in a row, I have very few doubts that he'll avoid renewing his contract.

Some people might answer "if he's so ambitious, why did he chose PSG over Madrid in 2017 ?". As I said, he has a clear idea of how his career should go. PSG was a step up after Monaco, but not a huge gap like Madrid would have been (UCL winner, one of the biggest team in the world, in a new country with a new language...). He couldn't take that risk, especially if he wanted to play the WC. He was guaranteed a lot of playing time in a good team, in his country. Back then he was only a wonder kid with a lot to prove. But things are changing for him. His choice in 2017 was a good career move. No doubt he'll put his career above everything else in a few years too. If that means leaving Paris, he'll leave.

In his hometown city and for his boyhood club moreover. Can't fault his choice back in 2017 given that he only had that 1 season with Monaco under his belt. As for him carefully having planed his career, fits perfectly with his career so far and extreme professionalism and conduct given his age. Many French players have struggled with this element (private life) and wasted their careers in the process or did not reach the heights that they were predicted to reach. Ben Arfa is probably one of the more obvious examples of this. More highly rated than Benzema back in the day. That entire generation from 2006-2014 (the ones that were in their early 20's in 2006) were mostly a wasted generation. Even the likes of Gourcuff that I remember from his Bordeaux and Milan period and that I am sure that you remember as well. Sakho and plenty of others.

 

[Alik]

First off, Mbappe's goal yesterday was not a tap-in so let's get that out of the way.

Speak for yourself. Tap-ins might look effortless but scoring tap-ins requires players to be fully aware of the development of the play so he or she knows where to go or show up to finish the tap-in. That is not easy at all.

As to Mbappe, certainly one of the best young players right now if not the best, but I don't know if he will ever reach Messi/Ronaldo level. Trophy-wise he might be already ahead of those two simply because he has a WC, but I don't know he will remain prolific for a decade like those two. We will just have to wait and see.

 

[Luftstalag14]

Again, only addressing the view of those who believe WC trophy trumps everything else.

 

[Bulgroz]

In his hometown city and for his boyhood club moreover. Can't fault his choice back in 2017 given that he only had that 1 season with Monaco under his belt. As for him carefully having planed his career, fits perfectly with his career so far and extreme professionalism and conduct given his age. Many French players have struggled with this element (private life) and wasted their careers in the process or did not reach the heights that they were predicted to reach. Ben Arfa is probably one of the more obvious examples of this. More highly rated than Benzema back in the day. That entire generation from 2006-2014 (the ones that were in their early 20's in 2006) were mostly a wasted generation. Even the likes of Gourcuff that I remember from his Bordeaux and Milan period and that I am sure that you remember as well. Sakho and plenty of others.

There's a big thing in France about the 1987 generation, who won the U17 Euro in 2004. This generation includes Benzema, Ben Arfa, Jeremy Menez, and Nasri among a few others. They were supposed to become world class players, and only one reached that status. Several had a lot of trouble fitting in their various teams, due to poor mentality. I think in a way, their failure will help the new generation, because as you said, Ben Arfa was supposed to go crazy high (most of the players he played with say he's one of the most gifted guy out there, Neymar even nicknamed him "o fenomeno" after a few training session in PSG) and he hardly won anything. Pretty sure youth coaches use that when they're talking to young players now.

As for Gourcuff (born in 1986, not in 1987), his career was mostly ruined by his many injuries. In Bordeaux, he was absolutely incredible, playing wonderful games against Chelsea, Juve or Bayern, world class performances after world class performances, scoring insane goals. But then he went to Lyon, where he kept on getting injured. Had also a lot of trouble getting his confidence back. I'd say Ben Arfa, Nasri or Menez had way too big egos, while Gourcuff was on the contrary too weak mentally. But yeah, in the end, they all failed to reach the goals everybody set for them when they were young, and it was in good part due to mentality issues. And as you said, I really doubt Mbappe will have the same problem. The kid's been prepared to be a superstar since he was a baby, in every aspect. There are a lot of memes in France about the way he talks during interviews, because he always sounds way too smart for a 20 year old footballer, and you can tell it's because it's already part of his training.

 

[DonAK]

I'd say his decision will depend A LOT on how PSG will fare in UCL over the next few seasons. I see Mbappe as a very ambitious player, with a clear idea of how he wants his carrer to go. Pretty sure he plans to win his first UCL before turning 23 or something. Pretty sure he also plans on winning several Ballon d'Or. He might win a few by winning WC/Euros with french NT, but that would be a huge risk to only count on the NT. He'll have to win UCLs if he wants to be remembered as one of the best players in history. If PSG looks like a team that can help him achieve his goals, he'll stay. But if they fail miserably several years in a row, I have very few doubts that he'll avoid renewing his contract.

Some people might answer "if he's so ambitious, why did he chose PSG over Madrid in 2017 ?". As I said, he has a clear idea of how his career should go. PSG was a step up after Monaco, but not a huge gap like Madrid would have been (UCL winner, one of the biggest team in the world, in a new country with a new language...). He couldn't take that risk, especially if he wanted to play the WC. He was guaranteed a lot of playing time in a good team, in his country. Back then he was only a wonder kid with a lot to prove. But things are changing for him. His choice in 2017 was a good career move. No doubt he'll put his career above everything else in a few years too. If that means leaving Paris, he'll leave.

He is definitely an ambitious person and has a carefully crafted public demeanor.

That is reason enough for everyone here to want PSG to fail

If Mbappé ever becomes available, Barca should move heaven and earth to make him join us. I suppose buying all these French players might serve some purpose later on

 

[Leo_Messi]

There's a big thing in France about the 1987 generation, who won the U17 Euro in 2004. This generation includes Benzema, Ben Arfa, Jeremy Menez, and Nasri among a few others. They were supposed to become world class players, and only one reached that status. Several had a lot of trouble fitting in their various teams, due to poor mentality. I think in a way, their failure will help the new generation, because as you said, Ben Arfa was supposed to go crazy high (most of the players he played with say he's one of the most gifted guy out there, Neymar even nicknamed him "o fenomeno" after a few training session in PSG) and he hardly won anything. Pretty sure youth coaches use that when they're talking to young players now.

As for Gourcuff (born in 1986, not in 1987), his career was mostly ruined by his many injuries. In Bordeaux, he was absolutely incredible, playing wonderful games against Chelsea, Juve or Bayern, world class performances after world class performances, scoring insane goals. But then he went to Lyon, where he kept on getting injured. Had also a lot of trouble getting his confidence back. I'd say Ben Arfa, Nasri or Menez had way too big egos, while Gourcuff was on the contrary too weak mentally. But yeah, in the end, they all failed to reach the goals everybody set for them when they were young, and it was in good part due to mentality issues. And as you said, I really doubt Mbappe will have the same problem. The kid's been prepared to be a superstar since he was a baby, in every aspect. There are a lot of memes in France about the way he talks during interviews, because he always sounds way too smart for a 20 year old footballer, and you can tell it's because it's already part of his training.

Precisely. Reminds me of past Spanish and Italian generations hailed as the next big thing only to mostly fail or be completely forgotten. In general few make it at the highest level of each generation. What France has been doing lately is just exceptional and having that extra advantage in being able to count on players from outside of Metropolitan France. That and laws in France that make it easy for citizens of countries that were once French colonies, to apply for citizenship in France when moving there. Not a surprise that most of the talents originate from the Paris region with the next (far behind) area being Lyon. Imagine if Spain could do the same thing in South America if our colonial period was more recent. We could have fielded some of the best players in history starting with Messi and Maradona, lol, had they given a cold shoulder to their native country (Argentina) or had Argentina been as bad as most of the French colonies were and are to this very day.

The Gourcuff, I refer here to his Milan period which was anything but convincing. A mixture of injuries and simply not taking his chances. Later his career was kickstarted at Bordeaux and there was even a point in time where he was playing well for the NT and an important puzzle of it along with Ribéry and a young Benzema.

Anyway always wondered how come Mbappé has been as prepared as he has been. His father is some immigrant from Cameroon if I am not wrong (not sure if educated) and his mother was an Algerian handballer. Born in an rather "unpleasant" area of the Greater Paris region moreover. Cases like this always surprise me. His talent from a young age obviously helped this and I guess that his parents and entourage decided to go all in on him and prepare him the way they did. It is a rare thing though as most of such people from that background, don't have such a strong familial backing.

Never watched that TF1 (sorry it was Canal Plus) documentary about Mbappé's upbringing and early career. Should maybe watch it online soon to make myself more familiar with this period of his life. Maybe you have watched it yourself?

Been a few of them already, only watched this one.

[youtube]DK6W9vHUNno[/youtube]

Testament to the great coaching network in France, in particular in and around Paris and the many unrecognized coaches with origins (themselves) in the banlieues.

 

[Luftstalag14]

I don't think we will be able to compete with Madrid in a bidding war as they have loads of cash unspent, and considering how hostile PSG is to us, the only feasible way to get him is to convince him that we are the best place for him, not because we have a lot of French players (it definitely helps) but because he is going to be Messi's successor, the flag bearer for us along with Dembele that will bring great glory to us in the next decade or so therefore PSG has to deal with us.

For this reason perhaps we should root for Vinicious and Rodrygo etc. to succeed and become their top star players.

 

[Bulgroz]

He is definitely an ambitious person and has a carefully crafted public demeanor.

That is reason enough for everyone here to want PSG to fail

If Mbappé ever becomes available, Barca should move heaven and earth to make him join us. I suppose buying all these French players might serve some purpose later on

Well, as a french, and even though I'm not a PSG fan, I'd love for Mbappe to stay in Ligue 1 while performing well in UCL. But yeah, if he has to leave, I'd love to see him with a FCB shirt. First of all because it's my favorite club abroad, obviously, but also because it would be pretty awesome if he could hone his relation with Dembele on the pitch all year long. They could be so fun to watch, and this would help french NT.

 

[El Gato]

Some people might answer "if he's so ambitious, why did he chose PSG over Madrid in 2017 ?". As I said, he has a clear idea of how his career should go. PSG was a step up after Monaco, but not a huge gap like Madrid would have been (UCL winner, one of the biggest team in the world, in a new country with a new language...). He couldn't take that risk, especially if he wanted to play the WC. He was guaranteed a lot of playing time in a good team, in his country. Back then he was only a wonder kid with a lot to prove. But things are changing for him. His choice in 2017 was a good career move. No doubt he'll put his career above everything else in a few years too. If that means leaving Paris, he'll leave.

He also seems to have a good bit of altruism and wanting Ligue 1 to grow in stature as evidenced by some of the quotes. Which is admirable. Madrid move didn't massively make sense at that stage, but it will in the future.

 

[DonAK]

He also seems to have a good bit of altruism and wanting Ligue 1 to grow in stature as evidenced by some of the quotes. Which is admirable. Madrid move didn't massively make sense at that stage, but it will in the future.

Nah, you won't need him. You have the new cross-breed of Neymar and Pele in Vinicius!

 

[El Gato]

Nah, you won't need him. You have the new cross-breed of Neymar and Pele in Vinicius!

To my knowledge he didn't say anything about Messi yet so Pele...?

Defo got a bit of Ney in him.