Lionel Messi - v7

[JamDav1982]

There's a lot of entitlement, loads of Barca fans feel like they are owed Champions League wins and if not everybody is garbage or to blame.

The fact the Messi has won 3 of his 6 Ballon d'Ors without winning the CL only shows how superior of a player he was in those years.

Likewise a lot of folk seem to think Messi is owed CL wins and any time he plays well he is a 'one man team' and any time he doesnt it is all about his team mates.

Messi could and should have won more CLs and he has played his part in that as well as rest of team have.

 

[Fati_Future_BallonDor]

Messi 18-19 CL was terrific but even there you saw that his away performances in KO stages are worrying. 0 goals against Lyon, 0 goals against Manu 0 goals against Liverpool. He and also the other players needs to learn how to perform away.

 

[Daniele]

There's a lot of entitlement, loads of Barca fans feel like they are owed Champions League wins and if not everybody is garbage or to blame.

The fact the Messi has won 3 of his 6 Ballon d'Ors without winning the CL only shows how superior of a player he was in those years.

yes,
it seems to me that here there are many spoiled people who have recently known football and think that a team like the Barcelona of the treble is a normal thing.
And anything less grand is shit.
They do not realize that barcelona is among the top (badly going in the top 8) of world football for years.
And a single defeat (even if very painful) completely erases the objective view of things and all players became garbage.
Never seen less constructive criticism

 

[sikkboy]

No mate, Barca fan is someone who wants the best for the Club and exercises opinion with that criterion in mind.
Barca fan is not someone who blindly worships any club legend without posing any critical concern, without noticing when he is not playing well, and above all without noticing when his presence is burdening the future of the Club

Which is totally fair. He deserves critcism this season only. Otherwise he's essentially carried a messed up club for years. I don' know how else I can put it. He wanted to leave but apparently wasn't allowed to. You don't think he doesn't know himself that he doesn't have much time left. You think he's gonna kill what little he's got left in the tank on a team that is fundamentally rank in all respects. He should for 100mill a year or whatever it is but realistaically nobody would do that. The other guy, you know him, wanted more they told him to bolt and he left, the end! Messi is the club's greatest player, and they've seen their greatest run of success whilst he's been at the club, the least they can do is cut him some slack. But nahh, there's actually so-called fans who are on him like flies n shit the minute he's not played at goat-levels. It's utterly mental.

Messi knew it, the Board knew it, hell the Prez should have known it, and those seasoned viewers knew it (for a long time) that it was time to move on, but nope didn't go and we're left with the inevitable shitshow.

 

[sikkboy]

And it's useful (all Messi fanboys) to ask yourself:
How come?
Messi won UCL and Barca was arguably the best team in Europe ONLY when Messi was not the 'leader' 'carrier' 'captain', but he was one great start among the many (Xavi, Iniesta and the well-oiled machine of Pep / Suarez, Neymar and the MSN management of Lucho).
On the contrary he failed miserably when he was the sole star and posed as 'leader' 'captain', carrier of the team, and Barca was a mediocre side compared to the top European sides. Even in 18/19 when he was obsessed with UCL, he announced already in the summer that he wants it, and he put his best individual performances in UCL, we saw how it ended...

Van Gaal's interview from 2019 is always current and eye-opening for all fanboys suffering from Messi-delusion:
"He’s the best individual player in the world. I like him. But why hasn’t he won the Champions League for five years? As captain, you must ask yourself this"
"Guardiola won it with Barcelona because he had Messi and because he didn't let Messi play in his own way. That's the difference”
“Messi adjusted to Guardiola's plan and not the other way around"
"Guardiola had him playing for the benefit of the team but recent coaches have adapted to Messi too much instead of protecting team spirit"
"“Look at Aguero. He played for himself until Guardiola changed him and now moves when he’s supposed to. That’s the art of coaching.”

Of course it takes a Van Gaal, a man who speaks his mind all the time and does not censure himself, to hear the truth in a year when Messi broke records and went later on to win Ballon d'Or.

Who doesn't think like this! Since Guardiola left they've been coached by a succession of useless coaches, and you could even argue that Luis Enrique really didn't fathom anything unique, he had some brilliant forwards and had the novel idea of getting them the ball asap, well doh! They were already on the decline by then as a team. The midfield was shot and as for the defence, they had Mathieu partenering Pique with Bartra as his undertstudy although Masherano, fresh off his WC heroics, was back there an awful lot too.

 

[Birdy]

Who doesn't think like this! Since Guardiola left they've been coached by a succession of useless coaches, and you could even argue that Luis Enrique really didn't fathom anything unique, he had some brilliant forwards and had the novel idea of getting them the ball asap, well doh! They were already on the decline by then as a team. The midfield was shot and as for the defence, they had Mathieu partenering Pique with Bartra as his undertstudy although Masherano, fresh off his WC heroics, was back there an awful lot too.

No no no...
Most of Messi fanboys here do not think like this, and refuse to concede the points LVG made in clear and adamant way above.
Whether coaches were useless or not useless is a discussion we can make, but Messi thinking he deserves to have a privileged and special position, that the team should play for him (and his delusion, of course, that playing like that will win you CL) in entirely on him and no one else.
He is not a victim. Period.

 

[BarcaOG]

No mate, Barca fan is someone who wants the best for the Club and exercises opinion with that criterion in mind.
Barca fan is not someone who blindly worships any club legend without posing any critical concern, without noticing when he is not playing well, and above all without noticing when his presence is burdening the future of the Club

couldnt agree more with this

 

[sikkboy]

No no no...
Most of Messi fanboys here do not think like this, and refuse to concede the points LVG made in clear and adamant way above.
Whether coaches were useless or not useless is a discussion we can make, but Messi thinking he deserves to have a privileged and special position, that the team should play for him (and his delusion, of course, that playing like that will win you CL) in entirely on him and no one else.
He is not a victim. Period.

You're not understanding the underlying theme through all of this and that is this: The side simply wasn't good enough to put Messi in the role he held before, one where he predominantly played wide right. It became a blatant necessity to play him deeper and more centrally because the team had lost control of games. Whether that was by design or just that's the way it morphed over the years because of teh lack of proper recruitment I couldn't say for sure. The Board failed to support him with the necessary replacements, mainly in midfield. They were a bunch of absolute cloggers. Not a single creative force introduced since the heydays of goat Xavi/Iniesta. Absolutely criminal really. It was plain for all to see.

 

[JohnN]

This sounds like it

It really doesn't. I am calling him biased. He hates Messi as a person and the man has said so. What is your issue?

 

[Ahmedd]

I know Madrid fans that will agree to say that Messi is one of the top 3 players of all time. And you'll are here arguing that he is toxic for Barcelona. The dude has scored and assisted more than any single football player that played for barcelona since it has been created. How much do you still need ? Oh wait but RM has won 124 CLs under Messi's era... So what ? When we win it's because Xavi, Iniesta but when we lose it's on him ? Guys, you don't deserve a tenth of the joy he bringed to us.

 

[JamDav1982]

It really doesn't. I am calling him biased. He hates Messi as a person and the man has said so. What is your issue?

What you are saying is all a bit hysterical and doesnt make sense... you have it backwards.

 

[Fati_Future_BallonDor]

I know Madrid fans that will agree to say that Messi is one of the top 3 players of all time. And you'll are here arguing that he is toxic for Barcelona. The dude has scored and assisted more than any single football player that played for barcelona since it has been created. How much do you still need ? Oh wait but RM has won 124 CLs under Messi's era... So what ? When we win it's because Xavi, Iniesta but when we lose it's on him ? Guys, you don't deserve a tenth of the joy he bringed to us.

Nobody speaking about the past, Messi is the best player of all time imo but in the presence its doesnt seem like he can help us (anymore).

 

[Ahmedd]

Nobody speaking about the past, Messi is the best player of all time imo but in the presence its doesnt seem like he can help us (anymore).

Look into the thread, people are questioning his contribution for us in the past. He is not giving as much as he did in the past, I agree. Is he toxic like people say though ?

 

[Daniele]

Nobody speaking about the past, Messi is the best player of all time imo but in the presence its doesnt seem like he can help us (anymore).

to be honest, however, Messi is not the worst player on the team this year in terms of performance.
Surely the one who is playing worse than his standards, but according to your reasoning almost the whole team should be refounded.
instead of pointing the finger at the individual players, is more rational to think that the team has yet to find his way of playing, cause is going through a necessary period of transition, with a new coach who has not yet focused on the situation, a board which is changing, a mix of veterans and very young players, no pure strikers to rely on.
Btw, we are at the beginning of the season, can we be less hasty to see how things will evolve?

 

[serghei]

It really doesn't. I am calling him biased. He hates Messi as a person and the man has said so. What is your issue?

Hate is a strong word mate. I said I don't like him as a person and I explained why. If some have a problem with it I couldn't care less.