Lionel Messi - v7

serghei

Senior Member
It's criminal that a player like Messi got managed by so many average managers after Guardiola. Martino, Valverde... even Lucho (I think he was decent to acceptable overall)... That's like 7 seasons in his prime so to speak, and in those years we only worked as a team in those 6 months where MSN clicked together like crazy.
 

KingLeo10

Senior Member
It's criminal that a player like Messi got managed by so many average managers after Guardiola. Martino, Valverde... even Lucho (I think he was decent to acceptable overall)... That's like 7 seasons in his prime so to speak, and in those years we only worked as a team in those 6 months where MSN clicked together like crazy.

As I said, fix the manager first. A proper world class manager and if Messi still continues to be a tactical problem, then we should think about moving on.

Other than that, it'd be crazy to lose his level of ability while cycling through dross managers and forwards who flatter to deceive.

My money is on Messi buying into a world class manager's vision. Remember, Zidane was the first coach who convinced CR7 not to score meaningless hat tricks v Getafe, Espanyol and co. and rest for the CL big games. And give 110% in those ties. CR7 wasn't like this from 2010-2015 at Madrid. In fact, we chided him for being a minnow basher back then. The narrative now is complete 180...
 
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serghei

Senior Member
As I said, fix the manager first. A proper world class manager and if Messi still continues to be a tactical problem, then we should think about moving on.

Other than that, it'd be crazy to lose his level of ability while cycling through dross managers and forwards who flatter to deceive.

Yea man, but it's kind of too late. Messi is in the last years of his career. He won't play that long in the future, and his prime is over him. That 'he is better than ever' talk is all rubbish for me.
 

Hardy

Senior Member
If we have a disaster in CL this year again, I think he should think about retiring soon. His legacy will get hurt if people will remember him in these losing positions so damn often, especially as captain.

I cannot for the life of me understand why he publicly backed Valverde though. I mean I seriously don't understand what was he thinking.

retire don't think but if this season turns in a total disaster I see him finally losing patience and maybe ask to leave.
 

serghei

Senior Member
retire don't think but if this season turns in a total disaster I see him finally losing patience and maybe ask to leave.

No way. I think retirement is way more likely than leaving. I mean, the man has 3 kids, and seems to be the type of guy who loves to hang around next to them. I think he's already contemplating retirement, and this is also the feeling I got watching his latest interview.

Don't see him at this stage moving to a different league, learning a different language, with new teammates, with his family moving somewhere else, changing their friends. Nah... doesn't fit the type.
 

Altomonte

New member
Imagine calling Griezzman lazy :lol: :lol: :lol: This picnic squad is probably disturbed by his workrate, makes them all look bad
In the first half, Griezmann was our best defensive player, was running more than all others. Maybe that's why he was tired and missed going back faster. Anyway, it cost us a goal and perhaps a chance to equalize.
 

Havesaks

Senior Member
If we have a disaster in CL this year again, I think he should think about retiring soon. His legacy will get hurt if people will remember him in these losing positions so damn often, especially as captain.

I cannot for the life of me understand why he publicly backed Valverde though. I mean I seriously don't understand what was he thinking.

Because Messi likes to have it safe and with Valverde he does have that in this critical periode of his career. He Let's him play as he wants, his bff plays, the results are ok, he likes the consistency and most of all he probably believes that in the end it's up the players, which most selfcriticial persons take are often. And who would have been a obvious improvement really? Ten haag? Setien? Don't think so. Maybe Koemann. Or river plates manager. And Let's be honest, it's not like Messi has a great record of managers to compare to tata, Tito, Lucho, Maradona and all the other useless Argentina coaches.
 

Givenchy

Senior Member
No way. I think retirement is way more likely than leaving. I mean, the man has 3 kids, and seems to be the type of guy who loves to hang around next to them. I think he's already contemplating retirement, and this is also the feeling I got watching his latest interview.

Don't see him at this stage moving to a different league, learning a different language, with new teammates, with his family moving somewhere else, changing their friends. Nah... doesn't fit the type.

I think the time for Messi to leave realistically would of been when Pep took the reigns at City. I doubt Pep will be there past this season and Messi reaching the end of his career, it wouldn't make much sense as you say learning everything from scratch

a sorry and disapointing ending for the greatest player of all time. never could I of imagined the horror we became post Pep. a few bright moments with the Lucho treble but watching Madrid win 3x CLs in a row.. heads should of rolled.

hopefully he gets that 6th and final ballon d'or before he does call it quits, if it ends 5-5 with Ronaldo that won't do Leo justice
 

Hardy

Senior Member
No way. I think retirement is way more likely than leaving. I mean, the man has 3 kids, and seems to be the type of guy who loves to hang around next to them. I think he's already contemplating retirement, and this is also the feeling I got watching his latest interview.

Don't see him at this stage moving to a different league, learning a different language, with new teammates, with his family moving somewhere else, changing their friends. Nah... doesn't fit the type.

I struggle to see that scenario as well but in one of his last interviews he said he wants to win and when he said that he was clearly referring to the CL. Ending is career in such miserable way? I doubt. After all there are also 50 mil of reasons.
 

serghei

Senior Member
Because Messi likes to have it safe and with Valverde he does have that in this critical periode of his career. He Let's him play as he wants, his bff plays, the results are ok, he likes the consistency and most of all he probably believes that in the end it's up the players, which most selfcriticial persons take are often. And who would have been a obvious improvement really? Ten haag? Setien? Don't think so. Maybe Koemann. Or river plates manager. And Let's be honest, it's not like Messi has a great record of managers to compare to tata, Tito, Lucho, Maradona and all the other useless Argentina coaches.

Could be.

But this culture of complacency has been established by not getting the proper managers post Pep. Somebody to keep the standards up and not take any shit, to keep that belief in the team that hard work and motivation is the way to win things in football.

The standards of what is acceptable in terms of speed, intensity and work rate in this team have declined from season to season as the players started to set them, instead of the managers. Right now, the manager is a puppet who says dumb things in press conferences. That's all he is for us.

You know what the fluctuations in this team's performances actually are? The mood of the main members in the team, the old timers, on that given day. If they are in a good mood and feel like playing and running, we win, sometimes by scoring a lot. If not, we lose. At home, they are usually in a much better mood than away. Just like we feel better as people when we are at home on our comfy couch, as opposed to visiting some relatives away form home. These kinds of shifting moods which determine how football games happen at Barcelona is what coaching is supposed to prevent. One of the main jobs in coaching is to move the influence from moods and variable things which are not under your control (how a star player feels on a given day), to things which are rehearsed, planned in a way which makes them almost automatic. You can see Valverde's expression on his face, and in press comferences. Most of the times he has no idea what is happening. He has no idea if this day Suarez, Pique, Messi, Busi, Alba will feel like playing or they will treat the game as a friendly where running is optional.

Most of the managers we had never managed to prevent these moods. Some fought with them with moderate success, like Lucho. Some, on the opposite spectrum, even supported these moods, hoping the players would feel like playing more often than not.
 
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jamrock

Senior Member
Messi isn't about to retire, he's probably leave though, although him meaning such a piss poor leader is 1 of the reasons we suck so much.

Stop thinking about your friends & more about what's best for the team & your legacy.
 

serghei

Senior Member
Messi isn't about to retire, he's probably leave though, although him meaning such a piss poor leader is 1 of the reasons we suck so much.

Stop thinking about your friends & more about what's best for the team & your legacy.

He will never leave, not to a Barcelona rival anyway. It is impossible to see Messi playing vs Barcelona.
 

khaled_a_d

Senior Member
He will never leave, not to a Barcelona rival anyway. It is impossible to see Messi playing vs Barcelona.

Football wise I think it is more than possible. He himself admitted he was very close to ask for transfer in 2014.
But lately he talked about his children being in school and having friends in Barca, and how the decision isn't up to him and that his dream of playing in Argentina won't happen.
I think that is the mean reason he will never leave, he is just too attached to the City and his family to make such changes in their lives
 

Havesaks

Senior Member
Could be.

But this culture of complacency has been established by not getting the proper managers post Pep. Somebody to keep the standards up and not take any shit, to keep that belief in the team that hard work and motivation is the way to win things in football.

The standards of what is acceptable in terms of speed, intensity and work rate in this team have declined from season to season as the players started to set them, instead of the managers. Right now, the manager is a puppet who says dumb things in press conferences. That's all he is for us.

You know what the fluctuations in this team's performances actually are? The mood of the main members in the team, the old timers, on that given day. If they are in a good mood and feel like playing and running, we win, sometimes by scoring a lot. If not, we lose. At home, they are usually in a much better mood than away. Just like we feel better as people when we are at home on our comfy couch, as opposed to visiting some relatives away form home. These kinds of shifting moods which determine how football games happen at Barcelona is what coaching is supposed to prevent. One of the main jobs in coaching is to move the influence from moods and variable things which are not under your control (how a star player feels on a given day), to things which are rehearsed, planned in a way which makes them almost automatic. You can see Valverde's expression on his face, and in press comferences. Most of the times he has no idea what is happening. He has no idea if this day Suarez, Pique, Messi, Busi, Alba will feel like playing or they will treat the game as a friendly where running is optional.

Most of the managers we had never managed to prevent these moods. Some fought with them with moderate success, like Lucho. Some, on the opposite spectrum, even supported these moods, hoping the players would feel like playing more often than not.

I agree on that. You put that well. Can't really add something to that. I just wish we had a more competent board and a manager like. Klopp or pep, but also both have the backing of the board.

Tbh after Pep har praised Xavi in the press, im Keen to give him the post of manager all tho he hasn't great experience he has some authority to his status in the club and the kind of.personality who is just fitting. No bullshit.
 

jamrock

Senior Member
I can see him going to a team outside barca, but like Khaled said if he does stay it's more become of the city, as he doesn't seem the type that would be able to make in a different culture.
 

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