it's every players' responsibility to strive for the best possible result for his club (after all that is what he gets paid for), and yes sometimes that also means doing things that don't actually happen on the pitch. unbelievably how much of a SCRUB some fans are.
Lionel Messi - v7
- Thread starter Barcaman
- Start date
it's every players' responsibility to strive for the best possible result for his club (after all that is what he gets paid for), and yes sometimes that also means doing things that don't actually happen on the pitch. unbelievably how much of a SCRUB some fans are.
commoners like you might have common problems instead, but spare us this scathing drivel. just think of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Enke to see that having lots of money doesn't necessarily equal happiness. from his body language, I wouldn't rule out messi suffering from depression either
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same thing. ev isn't boss of the company (in that case it would truly be hopeless). even in the military you would have to deal with a squad leader putting you into grave danger because of incompetence one way or the other
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some balls to come out with such stupid statements after that game. does he think barca players just had had a great jolly day of sunshine and rainbows? what an idiot
Ernesto GOATverde Tejedor
Banned
Yes, if an employee is incompetent it has to be addressed, by the people whose job it is to do the addressing - the Board, not Messi. If you want Messi to go beyond the bounds of his duties ' for the good of the club' then where does it stop?
If you think he can choose whether EV is good enough then why not let him pick the next manager as well? And make him responsible for buying all the players too? And why not make him head of marketing? Sales? Where does it end?
The fact is people have been bitching for years about him supposedly going outside his remit and controlling transfers etc. Only this summer people were attacking him for wanting Neymar but now they are attacking him for not deciding who should be coach? Hahahhah let's at least keep the hypocrisy to acceptable levels lads.
Let's face it for some people here , whatever he does is never good enough.
The guy who should be the undisputed best ever footballer instead will be compared more to Ronaldo than Maradona and often unfavourably. Ronaldo has the advantage of a title with Portugal (how it came about will be brushed over), will break the international goalscoring record (the fact half of them against farmers will be brushed over).
One Champions League won after 2011 at which point Barca were so far ahead of everyone and Messi still young. No titles with Argentina. No ballon d'ors post 2015 while Ronaldo has won 4 out the last 6 CL titles and a good chance of another one and a record of a CL and league title in 3 different leagues. A chance of more trophies with an excellent young Portugal team.
While Messi spends what's left of his career playing for jokers as manager and awful football teams full of old men or youngsters not quite up to it.
His legacy is trash in terms of what it should be.
One Champions League won after 2011 at which point Barca were so far ahead of everyone and Messi still young. No titles with Argentina. No ballon d'ors post 2015 while Ronaldo has won 4 out the last 6 CL titles and a good chance of another one and a record of a CL and league title in 3 different leagues. A chance of more trophies with an excellent young Portugal team.
While Messi spends what's left of his career playing for jokers as manager and awful football teams full of old men or youngsters not quite up to it.
His legacy is trash in terms of what it should be.
serghei
Senior Member
His legacy is not trash in any way. He has as good of a legacy as Ronaldo, albeit structured differently (Ronaldo's is more CL based, Messi's is more La Liga based). The problem is that Ronaldo has matched his impact and his achievements with half the talent, and that is because Ronaldo is a superior athlete. And by athlete I don't mean only in the body, but also mentality, in terms of personality, drive, professionalism.
To be honest, outside of talent, Messi is not a superior football player to Cristiano Ronaldo. It's very much like Federer and Nadal. Nadal is half as talented, but matched Federer's greatness by being a superior athlete. They used to be better, but by way of hunger and perseverance, Ronaldo and Nadal closed the gap so much, that it's not there anymore.
I happen to value talent and genius factor a lot, so for me Federer and Messi will forever be a slight notch above Ronaldo and Nadal. But objectively, they don't have any edge outside aesthetics and natural talent and ability.
Messi's legacy, like Ronaldo's, is hugely impressive. It's not a perfect career, neither player has a perfect career, and both have important failures along the years, but when you are around for that long at the very top, you're bound to have failures from time to time.
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KingLeo10
Senior Member
Nearly 700 goals for Barca + Argentina, 300+ assists
10 La Liga
4 CL
~115 goals in the CL, while the 3rd best is 71 or something. 46 CL KO goals when the 3rd best is something like 20.
Reached a WC final, lost to Germany who destroyed Brazil 7-1. Could he have done more? Absolutely. But people don't just reach WC finals every day.
5 Ballon D'or, 6 FIFA World Player of the Year Awards (all time record)
5 time top scorer of the CL
6 European Golden Shoes (all time record)
As Serghei put it, his legacy is safe. Unless you value WC over everything else including multiple CLs as the main man, he has a top 3 resume of all time. Only ones on the same level are CR7 and Beckenbauer.
He's won less CLs than he should have, sure. But painting him as if he was some Ballack and a perennial loser who never won anything big is hysterical.
To deviate from football, I think people had the expectation that Messi would be unanimous GOAT like a Jordan in basketball considering how much of a lead he had in that debate by 2012. If that's your bar, then yes, Messi fell short. But he's never quite had an absolutely obsessive, borderline psychotic hunger to be the best as someone like a Jordan. From that standpoint, Serghei's comparison to Federer is very apt. If Federer had been more cutthroat and more driven mentally, he would have easily taken 3 GSs from Nole where he was on match points. And that would have been the end of the GOAT debate in tennis.
10 La Liga
4 CL
~115 goals in the CL, while the 3rd best is 71 or something. 46 CL KO goals when the 3rd best is something like 20.
Reached a WC final, lost to Germany who destroyed Brazil 7-1. Could he have done more? Absolutely. But people don't just reach WC finals every day.
5 Ballon D'or, 6 FIFA World Player of the Year Awards (all time record)
5 time top scorer of the CL
6 European Golden Shoes (all time record)
As Serghei put it, his legacy is safe. Unless you value WC over everything else including multiple CLs as the main man, he has a top 3 resume of all time. Only ones on the same level are CR7 and Beckenbauer.
He's won less CLs than he should have, sure. But painting him as if he was some Ballack and a perennial loser who never won anything big is hysterical.
To deviate from football, I think people had the expectation that Messi would be unanimous GOAT like a Jordan in basketball considering how much of a lead he had in that debate by 2012. If that's your bar, then yes, Messi fell short. But he's never quite had an absolutely obsessive, borderline psychotic hunger to be the best as someone like a Jordan. From that standpoint, Serghei's comparison to Federer is very apt. If Federer had been more cutthroat and more driven mentally, he would have easily taken 3 GSs from Nole where he was on match points. And that would have been the end of the GOAT debate in tennis.
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Lapi
Member
Athleticism - specially in football - can be achieved by zealous hard-work.
Talent is a gift, specially on Messi's level. Comparing these 'artists' with the body-builders is not favorable for the game itself.
Just as you cannot compare Bobby Fischer to 'Deep Blue' - which is a machine, a creation, even if it would easily win over any human by now.
What one needs to look is the future of football.
If in 20 years from now eleven Ronaldos will play on the pitch, it will be unwatchable. That will be the end of the game as we know it.
If eleven Messis play against each other in a decade or two, that would be the blossom itself, but it is just not possible for reasons of quantity.
A Messi is born in 10-20 years only but you will always be able to 'manufacture' Ronaldos more and more, specially that technology constantly develops and supports that possibility.
The mere comparison is unfortunately against the future of the game, the natural game that is.
Jadentheman
Active member
true But people will still point out that he lost the 2014 WC
KingLeo10
Senior Member
I don't see how that disagrees with what I wrote. If we put this on a 0-100, you get 0 points for going home in the group stages, 25 for making the final, and 100 for winning the final. Unless your metric is that he wins every single major competition he enters or it's a bust. Which, while valid, is a rather simplistic view of a very nuanced game.
apt my ass. federer announced he wants to play til 40, and he's a man who has literally won everything (and has several children too btw). federer is a true athlete and winner, and the greatest of all time status will be cemented eternally when he takes the record for most tournament wins.
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