Lionel Messi - v7

[KingLeo10]

He's the most lethal finisher on the planet and actively chooses to hang in the midfield even while we have Arthur and FDJ. That's inexcusable and makes me severely question his understanding of his own strengths despite him being an out and out genius on the ball.

 

[KingLeo10]

Then he should stop saying how "badly" he wants the CL then.

Yup, there's no chance we win another CL with the cockroach at the helm or the Club De Amigos.

 

[Ernesto GOATverde Tejedor]

He's the most lethal finisher on the planet and actively chooses to hang in the midfield even while we have Arthur and FDJ. That's inexcusable and makes me severely question his understanding of his own strengths despite him being an out and out genius on the ball.

I actually thought the same thing for a while but yesterday's game was a real eye opener. He did as you asked in the first half and barely got a touch. I remember thinking to myself 'This is why he doesn't want to play false 9'. Nearly all his best moments came from him dropping deeper or drifting to the right side.

Arthur and FDJ are great players but have shown little in terms of great balls over the top or even through the middle. To be fair to Frenk at least that's not really his job or game

 

[KingLeo10]

I actually thought the same thing for a while but yesterday's game was a real eye opener. He did as you asked in the first half and barely got a touch. I remember thinking to myself 'This is why he doesn't want to play false 9'. Nearly all his best moments came from him dropping deeper or drifting to the right side.

Arthur and FDJ are great players but have shown little in terms of great balls over the top or even through the middle. To be fair to Frenk at least that's not really his job or game

Then we should train the midfielders to do this. That is THEIR job. The more likely explanation is that Messi is leaps and bounds ahead of even elite midfielders in making the final third creative pass...which is why managers let him do this instead of forcing the midfielders to up their creative passing game. The problem we run into with this approach is that Messi is absolutely shit in other qualities of being an elite midfielder such as work rate, movement, positioning etc. This means we don't get to maximize his lethal finishing abilities and also don't get much value from him dropping deep because for that 1 extra ordinary quality he has severe weaknesses as a 'midfielder'.

I've seen this pattern so many times in away CL games and now home CL games that it's simply bewildering that no one can figure out a solution at a club with hundreds of millions in resources.

To drive my point home, think about those 2 iconic goals v Bayern in the 2015 CL semi final.

Alves won the ball for the first, Messi dribbled and shot from just outside the box.

Rakitic won the ball for the second, made a CREATIVE pass and Messi put Boateng in the coffin and chipped Manuel fucking Neuer.

If an old Alves and Rakitic can do this, surely Arthur and FDJ can with the right manager. FDJ was running circles on Modric last season at Ajax so it's not like he's never shown this ability...

 

[Respekt_III]

All this is well and good but I don't see the comparison with Messi at Barca at all. His fellow employees don't want EV fired, they want him to stay. Messi has to sell out his best mates, undercover go meet Barto and say 'I want EV gone or else'. I don't know how people can't see that is a low, immoral rat move whatever way you look at it. Suarez would certainly think so don't you think?

Messi is an employee at the end of the day. He has no right whatsoever to go out of the bounds of his employment and start issuing demands, especially if contrary to his fellow employees.

"its your ethical obligation as an employee to report the truth, especially when asked". If this actually happened there would be anarchy with immoral players snitching to the board all the time. Also, to me that just doesn't work in the real world , you live by that ethos anywhere and pretty soon you will be seen as a rat.

Look, people can want Messi to get EV fired as much as they like, but let's not pretend it's not an immoral, low snitch move, because it is.

Nice strawman, The board/Barto would have spoken to to the senior players about such a matter however you keep making out like he's the one going to Barto demanding he sacks Valverde. All he had to do was either stay silent (at least) or say 'yes, i feel as though we aren't heading in the right direction', he instead decided to actively back him.... ill reiterate him backing valverde gave the board leverage to keep him on as the manager.

To your second point, the players who want him to stay are also under performing in their roles, there's a reason they want the under performing manager to stay. The players/employees personal feelings shouldn't be critical factor in making a professional decision.

I don't know what industry you work in but the inability to perform can lead to severe financial penalties and even fatalities (Engineering) so covering up for a colleague can get your qualifications stripped as well as jail time.

But what ever, snitches get stitches etc etc

 

[Ernesto GOATverde Tejedor]

Nice strawman, The board/Barto would have spoken to to the senior players about such a matter however you keep making out like he's the one going to Barto demanding he sacks Valverde. All he had to do was either stay silent (at least) or say 'yes, i feel as though we aren't heading in the right direction', he instead decided to actively back him.... ill reiterate him backing valverde gave the board leverage to keep him on as the manager.

To your second point, the players who want him to stay are also under performing in their roles, there's a reason they want the under performing manager to stay. The players/employees personal feelings shouldn't be critical factor in making a professional decision.

I don't know what industry you work in but the inability to perform can lead to severe financial penalties and even fatalities (Engineering) so covering up for a colleague can get your qualifications stripped as well as jail time.

But what ever, snitches get stitches etc etc

The only reason we are talking about him being the one going to Barto is because that's who the forum posters have singled out. No calls on the Pique , Busi threads to 'get the manager sacked.' We all know only Messi has the power to do it so of course he will have to be the one going to Barto if it is to get done. The others are not going to join him because as you said they fear the consequences of a new manager.

You can't compare the safety of your fellow employees or with them possibly dying with trying to get someone sacked in order to further your own desires and success. Ridiculous comparison.

We are going around in circles so I will leave it at this. We have to get rid of EV no matter what. If Messi does the dirty then great, but the dirty it will be. He may get praised for it here by some, but he won't get no praise for it from me that's for sure.

 

[snowy]

The only reason we are talking about him being the one going to Barto is because that's who the forum posters have singled out. No calls on the Pique , Busi threads to 'get the manager sacked.' We all know only Messi has the power to do it so of course he will have to be the one going to Barto if it is to get done. The others are not going to join him because as you said they fear the consequences of a new manager.

You can't compare the safety of your fellow employees or with them possibly dying with trying to get someone sacked in order to further your own desires and success. Ridiculous comparison.

We are going around in circles so I will leave it at this. We have to get rid of EV no matter what. If Messi does the dirty then great, but the dirty it will be. He may get praised for it here by some, but he won't get no praise for it from me that's for sure.

lol don't worry, no way Messi will do it. He even named himself culprit for not being good enough at Anfield.

So weird folks want him to do Barto's job and fire Ernie. It's not enough he's been carrying the team for years, now he's also expected to do admin duties and take executive decisions in place of the board jajaja

So many still saying they won't "feel sorry" for him, uhm yeahhhh folks, all good, I'm pretty sure ... he'll survive

 

[Laplacian]

Then he should stop saying how "badly" he wants the CL then.

This is my point too. I'm not blaming Messi for anything, I'm just not into the whole "his prime was wasted by Barcelona" when he himself decided to not be proactive when there were clear issues with squad management for years. We shouldn't cry about Messi not having another cl when he's out there actively supporting an underperforming manager in valverde. I just don't feel any sympathy for him like so many other users do.

 

[George_Costanza]

This is my point too. I'm not blaming Messi for anything, I'm just not into the whole "his prime was wasted by Barcelona" when he himself decided to not be proactive when there were clear issues with squad management for years. We shouldn't cry about Messi not having another cl when he's out there actively supporting an underperforming manager in valverde. I just don't feel any sympathy for him like so many other users do.

Messi is the best player in history but he is no leader. So him saying I'm ok with Valverde shows his passive and innocent personality. He is one of those guys who get attached to people around him especially those who spend some years with him i.e Pep, Tito, Cesc, Pique, Aguero, Suarez, Alves, Pinto, Neymar the list goes on and on. I'll guarantee you that if the fired EV tomorrow and hired someone like Jordi Roura, he will be ok with it! The point is we are blaming his personality and put too much emphasis on what he wants when he the fact is he will be OK with whatever. The board knows this and using it to their advantage/agenda.

 

[George_Costanza]

I would have agreed with you , except that he single-handedly managed to almost fire Lucho and call for an early election just by following Chelsea on instagram and not showing up for training . I mean if it wasn't for Xavi that year who kept the issue under control , there would have been a good chance that Lucho would have been fired in less than 6 months.

Lucho was the new manager and never connected with or trained Messi before. I doubt he wanted Lucho out after the second year which confirms my point.

 

[KingLeo10]

I would have agreed with you , except that he single-handedly managed to almost fire Lucho and call for an early election just by following Chelsea on instagram and not showing up for training . I mean if it wasn't for Xavi that year who kept the issue under control , there would have been a good chance that Lucho would have been fired in less than 6 months.

Yup.

He was a hungry man back then, now he's just the leader of the Club De Amigos. It shows in his play too. Can still put any team in the bodybag by starting on the right wing (did it v Inter 2nd half) but doesn't want to put in that effort/discipline all year round.

 

[KingLeo10]

Lucho was the new manager and never connected with or trained Messi before. I doubt he wanted Lucho out after the second year which confirms my point.

Well we had just won a 2nd treble when teams like RM, AC milan, Juventus, Liverpool don't even have 1.

That is enough credit to last 2-3 mediocre years.

 

[michelco]

You guys assume Messi understands that the problem is EV. Not clear that he does

Most players are pretty dumb when it comes to team tactics and such. Also all while being in the middle of it himself, its very easy to have the blinders on. Most likely the guy has insane expectations of himself as well and prolly blames himself when Barca looses, not really seeing the issue being with EV.

 

[malvolio]

So - he doesn't run enough, he is not as good as cristiano, he hasn't won a world Cup and now he doesn't want to get his manager fired
What next? He should fuck Raquel so that Rakitic leaves the club?
Some fans just have to be morons...

 

[Laplacian]

Chill out mate you don't have to be so toxic simply because some of us don't feel sorry about Messi "wasting his prime".

We may be morons but there's no need to be so aggressive over something so small lol, we aren't even shitting on Messi.