Lionel Messi - v7

[serghei]

They have a creative player in Dybala and Pjanic is better at creating chances, splitting the defence, playing passes between the lines than any of our midfielders.

Our second most creative player after Messi is probably Busquets.

Next season we'll have this creative Pjanic. On top of world class De Jong and new great talent Puig. By your account, we shouldn't see Messi dropping deep, since the midfield looks good.

In my opinion it will always happen until he retires. He even said himself he sees himself as a midfield creator now, more than a scorer. Sadly, Messi seems a bit tactically naive. He doesn't understand that his off the ball movement renders him unfit to be a deep playing player.

 

[DonAK]

Next season we'll have this creative Pjanic. On top of world class De Jong and new great talent Puig. By your account, we shouldn't see Messi dropping deep.

Should be much less than before for sure. Hopefully Setien is replaced too because he's clueless.

 

[KingLeo10]

They have a creative player in Dybala and Pjanic is better at creating chances, splitting the defence, playing passes between the lines than any of our midfielders.

Dybala was in poor form last season where CR7 played the same way and Pjanic has not been THAT guy for a long time, including this season and last season (a peek over at Juve forums and barely any of them want him around).

 

[KingLeo10]

Actually, the more I think about it, the more movement up front is the more crucial element. Even the world class duo of Modric and Kroos didn't do many defense splitting passes in their prime (15-17 CL). So, unless you have Xavi-Iniesta, you better start hustling more to help the mere mortals in midfield.

 

[DonAK]

Dybala was in poor form last season where CR7 played the same way and Pjanic has not been THAT guy for a long time, including this season and last season (a peek over at Juve forums and barely any of them want him around).

CR7 scores a lot of his goals from crosses too in Juve. Don't think you can expect Messi to stay around the ball to wait for Alba or Semedo/Roberto to cross the ball to him like that.

He has a lesser incentive to drop down deeper, and he did that in their recent game and looked like a clown everytime he tried so.

 

[serghei]

Should be much less than before for sure. Hopefully Setien is replaced too because he's clueless.

Why does Messi says he sees himself as a creator more?

“Now, I feel like a midfielder. Someone who builds attacks and creates goals rather than scoring them. I like to come more from the back, to have the ball and to create but also to get there and to score goals."

Seems to me that he doesn't really know his weak points. Every player has weak points. His weak points don't match the role Messi wants to play in the team.

 

[DonAK]

Why does Messi says he sees himself as a creator more?

“Now, I feel like a midfielder. Someone who builds attacks and creates goals rather than scoring them. I like to come more from the back, to have the ball and to create but also to get there and to score goals."

Give him players that can take over that burden and I bet you'll see Messi go back to loving scoring goals and winning BdO's.

 

[KingLeo10]

CR7 scores a lot of his goals from crosses too in Juve. Don't think you can expect Messi to stay around the ball to wait for Alba or Semedo/Roberto to cross the ball to him like that.

He has a lesser incentive to drop down deeper.

Yes, true, but Messi also has much superior finishing in tighter spaces than CR7. I don't think anyone will dispute that. So there is incentive for him to stay up front as he's the most efficient finisher in the history of the game.

 

[DonAK]

Yes, true, but Messi also has much superior finishing in tighter spaces than CR7. I don't think anyone will dispute that. So there is incentive for him to stay up front as he's the most efficient finisher in the history of the game.

I'll reserve my judgement for that when we don't have Busquets, Rakitic, Vidal starting vs every decent side.

 

[KingLeo10]

I'll reserve my judgement for that when we don't have Busquets, Rakitic, Vidal starting vs every decent side.

That's a separate, managerial issue and I happen to agree. I'm not saying that other variables are in place. I'm just saying that there's things Messi could improve on his end IMO.

 

[DonAK]

That's a separate, managerial issue and I happen to agree. I'm not saying that other variables are in place. I'm just saying that there's things Messi could improve on his end IMO.

I don't disagree with that. He can improve his movement off the ball for example. Hopefully there will be some change with a better management and better midfield and overall setup.

But you guys can go back to watching our games without Messi since Neymar. It's not been pretty. Barely any chances created, usually games like 1-1, 2-1.

The midfield haven't been good enough for a while. Rakitic was done in 2017. Vidal was sold by Bayern because he's only a player of moments now. Mostly as an impact sub.

 

[serghei]

I'll reserve my judgement for that when we don't have Busquets, Rakitic, Vidal starting vs every decent side.

Messi's not getting any younger you know. It's 2 more season if you're realistic. 3-4 is already pushing it to Grandpa levels. Messi at 33 already looks like a retired player compared with other forwards in Europe. At 36-37 he'd be completely shot physically.

 

[DonAK]

Messi's not getting any younger you know. It's 2 more season if you're realistic. 3-4 is already pushing it to Grandpa levels.

What can I say, we've wasted a few years with all these garbage transfers

 

[serghei]

What can I say, we've wasted a few years with all these garbage transfers

Yea, but we have to think about the future. His career for us has been nothing short of spectacular. If he'd won the treble last year, it would've been stuff of dreams.

At this point I don't see enough left in him physically to be part of a new cycle.

 

[DonAK]

Yea, but we have to think about the future. His career for us is nothing short of spectacular. If he'd won the treble last year, it would've been stuff of dreams.

He's not going to leave until he himself decides to do so, but we can change the rest of the team around him meanwhile. With new players Messi will probably have to break his habits and adapt to them than the other way around.