Lionel Messi - v7

[Xaviniesta]

I want to see the context of those interviews, but sure there are coaches like Wenger and players like Henry who will wholeheartedly say Messi is the GOAT. After a magical Messi moment, many players and coaches will be asked about their thoughts on Messi and all will compliment him and say he's the best. What about post match analysis of Roma, Liverpool, Bayern? What did they say then?

you think channels like MagicalMessi have the stomach to hear messi criticism, let alone upload it?

 

[Alik]

I want to see the context of those interviews, but sure there are coaches like Wenger and players like Henry who will wholeheartedly say Messi is the GOAT. After a magical Messi moment, many players and coaches will be asked about their thoughts on Messi and all will compliment him and say he's the best. What about post match analysis of Roma, Liverpool, Bayern? What did they say then?

Fine, research it and come back and let us know.

Make sure to research all the failures Cruyff, Distefano, Maradona, Romario, R9, Pele etc, have accumulated in their considerably shorter careers, for a fair comparison.

Messi has more longevity than any player he is compared to, except Ronaldo. Reading this thread, maybe he should have retired in 2016. Then all the objections here would be dropped.

 

[Richard.H]

Well, we both joined April 2010. It's just that you spend more time writing shit posts.

Even with my shit posts, I would have a hard time defending the team after losing 8-2. That's a scoreline that even PSG can't reach in farmer's league match against 20th place Toulouse.

 

[KingLeo10]

Fine, research it and come back and let us know.

Make sure to research all the failures Cruyff, Distefano, Maradona, Romario, R9, Pele etc, have accumulated in their considerably shorter careers, for a fair comparison.

Messi has more longevity than any player he is compared to, except Ronaldo. Reading this thread, maybe he should have retired in 2016. Then all the objections here would be dropped.

Those other players have a list of failures as well as a list of accomplishments. No one sane suggests otherwise.

in relation to those guys with shorter careers, Messi's had a longer list of accomplishments but the list of failures is also growing. Same with CR7.

The issue is whether it is fair to crown him GOAT. I believed he was such in 2015 after the 2nd treble but last 5 years have made me put him a shade below as one of the greatest ever (i.e. in the pantheon of the 4-5-6 greatest to ever play).

i don't see where the insult is. There are games where he clearly could have put more effort like AM 2016 or Roma 2018. Even the most ardent Messi fans can't deny that.

 

[El Gato]

My point was that Florentino made a decision despite his players and his most influential player openly endorsing Ancelotti. Messi endorsing Ernie should've had no say in Barto or the board's decision making.

I'm not fully buying this even though I understand... You're veering too much on the side of whitewashing the guy. Messi's opinion on sporting matters holds more ground than the president's, just like CRs did, and with great players you assume they're smart and smarter than you about the team's best interests, especially since Messi was team's captain and arguably the best player that has ever played. Therefore you'd assume he was on the right side of things since he really had no track record of being wrong WRT understanding football and team dynamics.
In effect what you're doing is calling great players dumbasses who should be kept in check by a smarter businessman whenever they go off the rails, therefore excusing the errors. There is no excuse for making a wrong endorsement.

 

[malvolio]

Even with my shit posts, I would have a hard time defending the team after losing 8-2. That's a scoreline that even PSG can't reach in farmer's league match against 20th place Strasbourg.

So suddenly all of them are shit because they lost 8-2? Talk about glory hunter fans that will bail out once the team doesn't provide bragging rights on the Internet or in pubs.
Boy you are a lost cause. Go do the research, see what the pundits tell you.

 

[Marshall D Teach]

Ran 0.2km more than the game where got meme'd on that he ran slightly more than our GK Pinto aswell.

Lucho got this guy to run

 

[Richard.H]

Fine, research it and come back and let us know.

Make sure to research all the failures Cruyff, Distefano, Maradona, Romario, R9, Pele etc, have accumulated in their considerably shorter careers, for a fair comparison.

Messi has more longevity than any player he is compared to, except Ronaldo. Reading this thread, maybe he should have retired in 2016. Then all the objections here would be dropped.

Messis' longetivity is surely very impressive, that's something that no one can deny. I never said Maradona and Pele are without a doubt above him, but the arguments to put them above him are credible. Both of them had ample NT success whereas Messi's NT campaigns have been full of tragedies. You could also argue the players at the club level that Messi was surrounded with were much better than the club teammates Maradona had. Xavi and Iniesta are widely considered the greatest midfield duo in history.

I'm not entirely sure how what I said was insulting towards Messi, but Messi is not undeniably the GOAT for many analysts like this forum thinks. Above CR7, sure, but if you go to a pub and claim he's the GOAT you will surely get in an argument or two.

 

[Messi983]

I can imagine the conversation:

Koeman: Leo, let's cut to the chase. We want to make this team fast and hungry, like in the past... That game vs Bayern can't happen again. Ever.

Messi: Uhmm, ok... I'm listening.

Koeman: I know you don't wanna hear this... but we can't do it with the veterans playing as they did in the last few years.

Messi: I don't know what you're talking about, it's the managers. We're still the best, not our fault Bartomeu hired only bad managers. Since Pep, only Valverde understood and cared for us... on a deeply human level you know? Like, from the heart...

Koeman: I know but, listen, we have to let Suarez go...

Messi: What? I open up to you like this, and you give me shit? No fucking way. If he goes, I'll go. I'll give you Busi. Busi can go. Fuck him, never liked him much. This guy never scores. He told me once he only goes up in the box to see the play from close and be the first one to congratulate me when I save their asses.

Koeman: Busi heh? Ok, Busi, I'll take it. I wanted to use De Jong DM anyway. Now we're talking. Who else? Give me a good one now...

(thinks for 1 minute)

Messi: Braithwaite, he's a veteran.

Koeman: You're shitting me? I mean important players.

(thinks for another minute)

Messi: Ok, you can take Pjanic.

Koeman: But... he didn't even join the team.

Messi: Even better, tell him to stay in Turin. Don't bother coming.

Koeman: Can't do it man, have to be current players. The fans want at least 2 main ones. How about Alba?

Messi: Fuck no! He's the only one that gives me the ball. Take Pique, he said he wants to focus on Tennis more the other day, wants to revolutionize the Davis Cup. But don't tell him I said this. And Vidal. Fucker played much better in Copa America...

Koeman: Ok, so, Busi, Vidal, and Pique. Ok, man, I think I can just about sell it. Deal?

Messi: Deal. But don't touch Suarez or Alba. No monkey business, no shenanigans, be a man of your word. If you know what's best for you...


5 mins after, on a whatsapp group:

Leo: Jordi, Luis, I got you off fuckers. You owe me big time... Had to cut others though... needed to give him something, make him think he's won the argument.

Jordi: Who?

Leo: Geri and Arturo. Had to do it man.

Jordi: Can't believe he fell for Arturo. He's not even a real amigo. Ja ja ja.

Luis: Ha! You played him. Better than us. Btw, Sofia said she liked the sweater very much, the stitching is perfect, Anto is the best as usual.

Messi: Ok, I tell her. We're happy she liked it.

Alba: Ok, talk later.

Messi: Bye.

Luis: Bye.

 

[Alik]

I believed he was such in 2015 after the 2nd treble but last 5 years have made me put him a shade below as one of the greatest ever (i.e. in the pantheon of the 4-5-6 greatest to ever play).

That's what I'm saying. For his own legacy, he should have retired in 2015, according to your point of view.

i don't see where the insult is. There are games where he clearly could have put more effort like AM 2016 or Roma 2018. Even the most ardent Messi fans can't deny that.

I don't deny that. However picking on Ronaldo's and Messi's failures at the age of 30+, considering the level they have been playing since they were 18 years old, as some thing that takes away from legacy is not fair imo. They will only play worse and worse. That's normal.

 

[Batistuta9]

Lucho got this guy to run

Lucho isn't blame free regarding the current state of the team. Season after the treble his next signings were Arda Turan, aleix Vidal, Andre gomes, Paco alcacer and Lucas digne. None of them had any impact.

 

[Alik]

Lucho got this guy to run

Almost as if he was 5 years younger

 

[Marshall D Teach]

Almost as if he was 5 years younger

He was 6 years younger when this happened:

Ran 0.2km more than the game where got meme'd on that he ran slightly more than our GK Pinto aswell.

and 7 years younger when he walked his way to a 7-0 defeat to Bayern.

 

[Total-Football]

For the game where barca bitch smacked Madrid 0 4 without messi. Neymar scored 11.3 km. For a player who sprints a lot that's the equivalent of running like a mad dog. Bald neymar was an nuclear player. Enrique is another manager without any ideas or football mind he simply brought high level fitness and discipline to the team and that was enough.

 

[Richard.H]

So suddenly all of them are shit because they lost 8-2? Talk about glory hunter fans that will bail out once the team doesn't provide bragging rights on the Internet or in pubs.
Boy you are a lost cause. Go do the research, see what the pundits tell you.

All 11 players played a part in the loss, an 8-2 is not something that just happens. Like it or not Messi was the captain and hence the leader of the team that got battered worse than any other team in modern CL history. If you don't think this loss will have an effect on his legacy then you are sadly wrong.