FinBarcelonafan
Well-known member
That's insane. Especially when he is clearly not on his usual level yet.
Lionel Messi - v7
- Thread starter Barcaman
- Start date
That's insane. Especially when he is clearly not on his usual level yet.
Leo_Messi
New member
The day that Messi's overall level will decline considerably, my football heart will be broken. This guy has given me and every other culé and football lover so much joy since his debut, that I find it hard to imagine that there will ever be another player that will come even close to him.
For starters I don't think that we are ever likely to witness a potential GOAT (if not THE GOAT) play for 1 top club such as Barça during his entire career or for 95% of it. One-club players are a dying breed in elite football to start with.
Messi is no longer in his prime, not the ideal leader on and off the pitch, not a faultless player but he is nevertheless the closest thing to perfection and a genuine culé and one-club man.
We as fans need to appreciate how lucky we have been to have been witnessing him for 15+ years for the first team and that he 15 years later is still the best and playing for Barça.
Sadly time does not pardon so we should enjoy the last years of Messi at Barça and hope that the team will win as many trophies as possible until he leaves/retires despite years of serious institutional neglect from a useless board and shocking managerial appointments ever since Pep left.
For starters I don't think that we are ever likely to witness a potential GOAT (if not THE GOAT) play for 1 top club such as Barça during his entire career or for 95% of it. One-club players are a dying breed in elite football to start with.
Messi is no longer in his prime, not the ideal leader on and off the pitch, not a faultless player but he is nevertheless the closest thing to perfection and a genuine culé and one-club man.
We as fans need to appreciate how lucky we have been to have been witnessing him for 15+ years for the first team and that he 15 years later is still the best and playing for Barça.
Sadly time does not pardon so we should enjoy the last years of Messi at Barça and hope that the team will win as many trophies as possible until he leaves/retires despite years of serious institutional neglect from a useless board and shocking managerial appointments ever since Pep left.
serghei
Senior Member
Yea, and it has affected him in a bad way. Man basically won 4 out of his 5 Ballon d'Ors under Guardiola. Imagine how many he would have now if Guardiola stayed. Probably 7-8. His career and Barcelona's trophy room would've been considerably bigger in terms of titles in Europe. Instead, we let Madrid go from 9 CL titles to 13!!
I don't know who exactly chased away Guardiola, but the one who had the most part in it was the biggest idiot on the planet.
DonAK
President of FC Barcelona
I'm not too sure Pep would have stayed here for too many years anyway, but tearing down everything Pep, Cruyff, Rijkaard, Txiki built just because you hated Laporta and everyone who supported him, and tearing down the foundations of the club just because you wanted to do it your way. From degrading Cruyff, to firing or demoting most of the La Masia staff in place, to suing former directors(and eventually losing) just to prove your point.
You have to be twisted in a sick way to think like that.
Unfortunately Sandro Rosell was just that. Bartomeu is nothing more than a puppet of his.
I don't want to be the guy that said I told you so.
But I said this would happen in 2015 when the socis and most of this forum voiced their support for Bartomeu based on the treble we won.
Populism/Short-Term victories over principles and foundations and long-term plans
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Mitchell1978
Senior Member
Messi is still very much in his prime, at least he was last season when he had one of his greatest seasons. This season, way to early to judge.
other then that good post
Leo_Messi
New member
Disagree. Messi is definitely not in his optimal physical prime any longer. Lost a lot of pace and his previous insane burst of acceleration. Nor is he scoring as much as he used to. On the other hand he has managed to improve a lot of other aspects of his game such as his passing, playmaking, vision, free kicks etc.
He remains the best player in the world but he is no longer the player he once was. I prefer the Pep era Messi or the 2014-15 version.
Actually when you think about it, the last few years version of Messi might be the best to date, if we look past the physical aspect and insane goalscoring between 2011-2013.
In any case, it is hard to imagine that a Messi approaching 33 years, is going to improve. You can't defeat the passage of time, sadly. For now at least.
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He scored over 50 goals last season and playmaking,vision and passing is something he's always had and isn't something you really improve. You either have it or you dont
Leo_Messi
New member
You are gravely mistaken. Messi had an innate talent for those elements of the game but it is a fairytale to believe that talent alone is enough. Messi obviously worked his ass off to improve those aspects of this game. Anyone that has followed his career at Barça since he emerged for the first team in 2004 would be well aware of it.
Messi was bad in terms of free kick taking initially but later vastly improved. Similarly in terms of his passing, vision and playmaking.
As for the goals he scored last season, I suggest rereading my post again or taking a look at some of his prior seasons if goalscoring is alfa and omega. May I refer to the 2011-12 and 2012-13 seasons as I also wrote above.
Mitchell1978
Senior Member
Physical prime doesn't always mean a players prime as long as you adapt, evolve your game.
And last season in terms of performance, consistency and production was among his very best. Taking minutes played into account last season (a goal every 79 minutes accros all club competitions) was his 3e best goalscoring season for example (after 2011-12 and 2012-13).
Lapi
Member
Messi has said multiple times in interviews that what really changed with him was he slowly gave up his sort of selfish attitude and after some time did not want to solve everything alone, on his own.
That's something that usually comes by age, but the rest have always been in him.
Perhaps he practiced free-kicks and fixed situations to a certain extent but most probably there was nothing he could actually achieve by hard-work. All of that came with him unconsciously.
BusiTheKing
Senior Member
He would not have been a better player overall, but just think of the wondergoals he would have produced if he had kept that selfish mindset. What we saw in the 2015 Copa final for example, was a psychological anamoly for Messi. Under normal conditions, he would have passed it at some point. He got fucking angry and just put his head down.
Look at this goal and try to make out how many times Messi would have passed it today.
Look at this goal and try to make out how many times Messi would have passed it today.
Leo_Messi
New member
As I wrote, Messi is the best player even as a 32 year old, and he has continued to have phenomenal statistics and anyone that watches him play regularly can attest to how great he is irrespective of statistics. It is a question of personal taste. Individually I will take a 2009-2013 and 2014-16 Messi over last season's Messi and the current version.
Mitchell1978
Senior Member
Performance/consistency/production/impact on the game is what matters. For me last season was his 3e or 4e best season even if he's not that fast anymore.
KingLeo10
Senior Member
Messi's physical prime was 08-13 and then he gave us one more virtuoso in 2015 with peak MSN (he was unstoppable in dribbling that year on the RW. Maradona and Robben rolled into one). 2016-17 and 2018-2019 were also super seasons (both 50+ goals, more than a goal a game) from him but he wasn't unbeatable in dribbles like in the past.
Messi and CR7 are actually two of the smartest players I've ever seen. Both are out of their physical primes but finding ways to score the big goals. Obviously Messi is better.
Messi and CR7 are actually two of the smartest players I've ever seen. Both are out of their physical primes but finding ways to score the big goals. Obviously Messi is better.
Leo_Messi
New member
You are basically admitting that Messi had better seasons in the past prior to last season. Which is exactly my point. Messi was a better player when he was at his physical prime. The team as a whole was more successful too.
There is absolutely nothing controversial about it.
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