Lionel Messi - v7

[Horatio]

Disagree. Messi is definitely not in his optimal physical prime any longer. Lost a lot of pace and his previous insane burst of acceleration. Nor is he scoring as much as he used to. On the other hand he has managed to improve a lot of other aspects of his game such as his passing, playmaking, vision, free kicks etc.

He remains the best player in the world but he is no longer the player he once was. I prefer the Pep era Messi or the 2014-15 version.

Actually when you think about it, the last few years version of Messi might be the best to date, if we look past the physical aspect and insane goalscoring between 2011-2013.

In any case, it is hard to imagine that a Messi approaching 33 years, is going to improve. You can't defeat the passage of time, sadly. For now at least.

Might be right about him not being in his prime, but his goalscoring stats are optimal. We have to consider the state of the team. And he would’ve had more assists as well if others weren’t as wasteful.

 

[Mitchell1978]

You are basically admitting that Messi had better seasons in the past prior to last season. Which is exactly my point. Messi was a better player when he was at his physical prime. The team as a whole was more successful too.

There is absolutely nothing controversial about it.

Again physical prime isn't the same as players prime, sometimes it is like with a lot of Brazilians for example who decline quickly when or even before turning 30. But you als have players who are still performing at near optimal levels in their early 30s.

For me prime is when a player generally performs to the best or near the best of his abilities/talent, a players peak is when he generally performs to the max of his abilities/talent. Primes can be 5 years but also 10 to 15 years, peaks are 2-4 years.

 

[serghei]

Messi's physical prime was 08-13 and then he gave us one more virtuoso in 2015 with peak MSN (he was unstoppable in dribbling that year on the RW. Maradona and Robben rolled into one). 2016-17 and 2018-2019 were also super seasons (both 50+ goals, more than a goal a game) from him but he wasn't unbeatable in dribbles like in the past.

Messi and CR7 are actually two of the smartest players I've ever seen. Both are out of their physical primes but finding ways to score the big goals. Obviously Messi is better.

Good comment. Some of his core abilities, which is dribbling and explosiveness, have normally declined with age. That alone makes him a less dangerous player now than in his best years due to being slower, older, and less intense off the ball (never was a beast at this, but in 2009-2012 he was more active off the ball than now, when he constantly walks and waits for the ball to get to him instead of making moves to get himself involved).

But both Ronaldo and Messi have found ways to still be the best at their age. Both have lost an edge though and are more dependent on other players than ever before. Messi less so, but still now he needs more quality service than in the past, when he could pick up the ball in a neutral area and become a one man attack almost.

 

[JohnN]

Even though it's astonishing he has kept this kind of level for all these years, when he was younger he was unplayable.
I remember he had those moments when he turned facing the goal, from anywhere on the pitch, and everyone knew he was determined to score.. And he did, consistently.
He kept on going towards the goal no matter what.
I seriously doubt we will ever see anything like this again.

 

[Leo_Messi]

Again physical prime isn't the same as players prime, sometimes it is like with a lot of Brazilians for example who decline quickly when or even before turning 30. But you als have players who are still performing at near optimal levels in their early 30s.

For me prime is when a player generally performs to the best or near the best of his abilities/talent, a players peak is when he generally performs to the max of his abilities/talent. Primes can be 5 years but also 10 to 15 years, peaks are 2-4 years.

Forget physical prime, a player's prime, a player's peak etc.

Just answer those 2 questions.

Was Messi once a better player than he is now?

Did Messi have numerous seasons in the past (years ago) where he had superior individual performances, statistics etc.?

If you ask me there is no other answer than yes to both of those questions above.

Let's not even mention team performances overall which coincided with the best versions of Messi as well.

 

[Mitchell1978]

Forget physical prime, a player's prime, a player's peak etc.

Just answer those 2 questions.

Was Messi once a better player than he is now?

Did Messi have numerous seasons in the past (years ago) where he had superior individual performances, statistics etc.?

If you ask me there is no other answer than yes to both of those questions above.

Let's not even mention team performances overall which coincided with the best versions of Messi as well.

14/15 (most complete version) and 11/12 (most prolific) are the only 2 seasons i rate above last season, 12/13 (peak as a finisher) & 10/11 are on par with last season

 

[Leo_Messi]

14/15 (most complete version) and 11/12 (most prolific) are the only 2 seasons i rate above last season, 12/13 (peak as a finisher) & 10/11 are on par with last season

I agree expect for me rating his 2012/13 and 2010-11 seasons higher in terms of individual performances than last years season. Team success also plays a role here for me.

Have to admit that the 2008-09 triplete season of Messi was very special as well. Different type of player back then but the youthful optimism of his, him emerging on the scene as the greatest in the world knocking C. Ronaldo down, the first GOAT whispers etc. A very nostalgic time.

 

[El Flaco]

 

[Centauri B]

This guy also has another video titled: "What if Messi Chose Spain?"

The thought of that just gives me a hard-on! Spain + Messi would mean total domination from 2008 all the way to today, no ifs or buts.

 

[Ernesto GOATverde Tejedor]

This guy also has another video titled: "What if Messi Chose Spain?"

The thought of that just gives me a hard-on! Spain + Messi would mean total domination from 2008 all the way to today, no ifs or buts.

Can understand why anyone would think this way but I would have to disagree. The man is an Argentino. You can fuck around by going to different clubs to increase your trophy haul but not when it comes to your country. Winning with Spain would feel fake and not real. The cards were dealt for him that his international career would be an Argentinian Shakespearean drama. It will make it ever more sweet if he ever wins something with them and will be worth more to him than any world cups with Spain.

 

[FinBarcelonafan]

Can understand why anyone would think this way but I would have to disagree. The man is an Argentino. You can fuck around by going to different clubs to increase your trophy haul but not when it comes to your country. Winning with Spain would feel fake and not real. The cards were dealt for him that his international career would be an Argentinian Shakespearean drama. It will make it ever more sweet if he ever wins something with them and will be worth more to him than any world cups with Spain.

Well said. Maybe it's a bit different when you are Fati and from Guinea, but Argentina is a wonderful football country. In the end, If he won that one World Cup he would be the best ever. Small difference.

 

[KingLeo10]

10-11 Messi > 11-12 Messi = 14-15 Messi > 12-13 Messi = 09-10 Messi = 18/19 Messi = 08/09 Messi > 16-17 Messi.

10-11 he dropped a double (including a mesmerizing solo) at the Bernabeu in a CL SEMI-FINAL against a billion dollar Real with prime Mourinho and prime CR7. That alone makes it the apex of his career.

 

[Ritchie]

Can understand why anyone would think this way but I would have to disagree. The man is an Argentino. You can fuck around by going to different clubs to increase your trophy haul but not when it comes to your country. Winning with Spain would feel fake and not real. The cards were dealt for him that his international career would be an Argentinian Shakespearean drama. It will make it ever more sweet if he ever wins something with them and will be worth more to him than any world cups with Spain.

If Messi chose Spain he'd feasibly have the international goal record, would have won every tournament, dominated a Euros/World Cup that Spain won (and they might have won even more than they did and in more style than they did). It wouldn't even be a debate with Ronaldo. Not to say he should have chose Spain but his legacy would be untouchable if he did.

 

[Respekt_III]

Can understand why anyone would think this way but I would have to disagree. The man is an Argentino. You can fuck around by going to different clubs to increase your trophy haul but not when it comes to your country. Winning with Spain would feel fake and not real. The cards were dealt for him that his international career would be an Argentinian Shakespearean drama. It will make it ever more sweet if he ever wins something with them and will be worth more to him than any world cups with Spain.

The guy basically grew up and lived in Spain his whole life so it definitely shouldn't feel fake. Especially when it it would leave him as the undisputed best of all time according to anyone with more then a single digit iq. Unfortunately there a fair few people believing Ronaldo is better in the double digit iq range currently because of his international career currently.

 

[eaman]

I often wonder if messi had won that world cup in 2014 would his hunger and form have dipped like it has with some players after they won the biggest prize. I doubt it because messi isn't the type to take it easy after a big win. Like Ronaldo after his euros win he would keep on striving for more success.