Lionel "The Greatest of All Time" Messi

[snowy]

...

3) I didn't say they would suddenly be better in this WC if you remove Messi. That falls again under 1
I said this team plays meh football, but have a core of young players that could be made to play better in the future.
For that to happen, they need to stop playing the game at Messi's pace

So you prefer Ancient One's pace ?

Messi is tops at quick combos and 1 touch passes to release fast runners

Perfect for counters and breaking lines

He's been doing it regularly at PSG and throughout this WC

 

[Hardy]

France is just a terrible matchup for them, don't compare other upset in this world cup, Argentina can't play the same kind of match like Japan or Morocco did.

 

[malvolio]

No, that is not same with Croatia. Most of you are saying how lucky Croatia were. But never have I seen anyone bring luck up in context of Morocco.

I thought that's a given and people just wait for France to put them to sleep. What's to discuss about Morocco really?

 

[Horatio]

I thought that's a given and people just wait for France to put them to sleep. What's to discuss about Morocco really?

No. Morocco are all about fighting spirit. All united. BELIEVE!!! I love them and what they are doing but double standards a bit. How many chances did Spain and Portugal bottle against them? Let's be real. That will be chalked up to Moroccan's making their opponent shaking in their boots or something.

 

[malvolio]

France is just a terrible match-up for them, don't compare other upset in this world cup, Argentina can't play the same kind of match like Japan or Morocco did.

Doesn't matter really. If it is to be for Argentina, it will happen. France is not this unbeatable team that hasn't failed before. Just as Argentina isn't some overachieving team that got here by chance.

I'd say that would be the correct final, based on what teams have shown throughout the tournament. The two best teams with the two best players, can't have it better than that. Hopefully Argies win.

 

[Horatio]

Imagine all this talk and then final is Argentina Morocco damn.

 

[neo_wolf]

I think France will beat Morocco, and if they get an early goal they will destroy them because morocco will have to open up.

 

[JohnN]

Mate, it's good to be accurate and not misconstrue what I say.

1) Yes, and that proves my point actually.
Answered it already for you the other day: When you remove someone around which their game is constructed, they will obviously be abysmal

2) Yes, we need time much more than you think.
For many of you, teams rebuilt from 0 should suddenly win CL. LOL
Pique just costed us UCL group qualification, Busi and Alba are still playing.
Get some grip with where we are at

3) I didn't say they would suddenly be better in this WC if you remove Messi. That falls again under 1
I said this team plays meh football, but have a core of young players that could be made to play better in the future.
For that to happen, they need to stop playing the game at Messi's pace

4) Not sure I ever claimed Dybala can perform the role better.
I rather claim the role might not be needed.
Same thing I claimed when he was at Barca.

5) That's true.
A big team can get eliminated by a smaller team in a knock-out.
Proves nothing mate about how they can fare against another big team.
How many times have you seen it in football?

-> In short, all of these points stand
but somehow, I should cater to what the majority here wants from me, which is blindly worship granny Messi because he is the GOAT and gave us moments of joy.
No thanks, I am not a fanboy

I still don't get how much better would Argentina do. They won the Copa last year and are in the final of WC this year.
What would they do? Annihilate everyone 5-0?

 

[Temptation]

damn I fell for it. Thought Temp was genuine for once since he has been abandoned by his group. Thought he was hoping for us to take him in when a possible Argentina win.

These guys banned OG and drove away Rassy by being abusive and unfair to him. Fati is getting on a bit now. Pain. It's OK, I'm well equipped enough to be a lone ranger. Seige mentality.

Feeling like a single mother in a 3rd world Islamic nation here.

Still in your movie buff group hopefully (clutching at straws here).....

 

[Windhook]

Imagine all this talk and then final is Argentina Morocco damn.

Indeed more and more as the game approaches I think of this.

 

[Birdy]

ok, without accusing each other of bias, like gentlemen.
In your argument, since it takes time to rebuild the team, what do you think Argentina should have done?
Let'say: don't call Messi anymore f.e. since 4 years ago and build a new non-Messi dependent team.

Here, the best result they could have had, could only have equaled the one actually obtained (America's Cup victory, World Cup final).
If argentina were to lose the final, in theory you could argue "if they had built a new team 4 years ago argentina would also have won the world cup", but do you think this is a valid point?
come on, honestly. To argue that removing Messi would have been better is pure sophistry.
O,k the team doesn't play champagen football, but the results are all on their side

We don't know that, and had they tried to build a team w/o Messi (possibly with another coach?) four years ago it's possible that they wouldn't have won Copa or be in WC final now (that doesn't mean that Messi is winning Copa or reaching WC final on his own, as some fanboys here want everyone to believe)

But they might have been playing much better football, and in another 4 years they might have been able to win WC by playing good football as well

You see, in my eyes, the football played is important.
Argies currently are meh at it. Far cry from Spain 2010 and Germany 2014 that were dominant teams and not only won WC but also played champagne football.

 

[Birdy]

You know what would be an interesting discussion? Why is no one saying Morocco has been very lucky so far? They have faced topsides who missed a number of sitters.

Not really

Their opponents haven't managed to create a lot of clear-cut chances, especially in the knock-out stage.
Pepe's header in the dying minutes is the best chance a Marroco opponent had
Look here:

They haven't lost on xG the whole tournament

Look, I don't like this defensive anti-football.
But it's a small nation that is doing admirably the only way they can. Reminds of Greece 2004 a lot.
I am much more critical of big sides like Argentina when they play like that

 

[JohnN]

Argentina are a far cry talent wise from the teams you mention. No national team in this wc has played champagne football anyway and they don't have Messi.

I get the communication problem we are having though. What you are actually is saying is this:
"I prefer the football style they might have been able to play without an aging player" and not "they would be better results wise".

To some, current Barca (and Spain NT) is aesthetically pleasing too, but are trashed by every half decent team they meet.
Good football is a good bonus, but in WC tournaments the best thing is to win.

Teams don't just play super beautiful football with mediocre players, as current Barca has demonstrated nicely.

 

[KingLeo10]

These guys banned OG and drove away Rassy by being abusive and unfair to him. Fati is getting on a bit now. Pain. It's OK, I'm well equipped enough to be a lone ranger. Seige mentality.

Usually don't like your posts but the first bit was comedy gold

 

[Daniele]

We don't know that, and had they tried to build a team w/o Messi (possibly with another coach?) four years ago it's possible that they wouldn't have won Copa or be in WC final now (that doesn't mean that Messi is winning Copa or reaching WC final on his own, as some fanboys here want everyone to believe)

But they might have been playing much better football, and in another 4 years they might have been able to win WC by playing good football as well

You see, in my eyes, the football played is important.
Argies currently are meh at it. Far cry from Spain 2010 and Germany 2014 that were dominant teams and not only won WC but also played champagne football.

That's right,
on the one hand (new team without Messi) you have "THEY MIGHT HAVE WON" and played good football.
On the other (team with Messi) you have "THEY ACTUALLY WON" and played meh football.

Do you think it is possible to compare the two levels?