Lionel "The Greatest of All Time" Messi

[KingLeo10]

CR7 has never played in possession oriented teams with one touch passing and quick link-up play (passing the ball into the net after 10-15-20 quick touches as Messi did under Guardiola). Not sure why he's automatically given the benefit of the doubt when he's thrived exclusively in systems that are based on counterattacks and crosses (for both club and NT). Basically he needs more space to make his runs.

Messi thrived in what was essentially a poor man's Chelsea setup (defensive oriented) under EV and thrived in a Bayern/Pool like setup in 2014-2015 under Lucho. So, pretty flimsy argument. His main problem at the moment is attrition. He's probably finished before CR7 age wise but as Hardy pointed out, CR7 was nowhere close to Messi when Messi was 17-21. Different trajectories.

 

[Fati_Future_BallonDor]

It's not so much the league he plays in that makes the difference but the team around him that does. Sure, prime Messi in the Barcelona team would destroy teams from any league as he proved. Prime Messi in a team like Manchester City would too.

However, I think there would be a considerable drop off (much more so than for someone like Ronaldo) if Messi was playing for a team like Liverpool, Bayern, or Chelsea that plays a different type of football.

Its because of the role which Messi plays. 2015 Messi could easily replace Salah at Liverpool and they would become better, the Messi from 2016 who didnt stick to RW anymore but played a free role won't suit into Liverpool's system.

 

[Porque]

It's possible also that Ronaldo is smart enough to adapt to his current limitations and work/worked the role of a poacher.

Messi still wants to be involved in all the actions and control the narrative of the game. When he comes deep, he still thinks he has the physical attributes to pull off the individualistic dribbles which he tried and failed last year with. He doesn't have the discipline (or the trust) of his team mates to just stick to the false 9 role/space or even the AMR that he had.

Still, this thread is way too reactionary. Just this summer, Messi played a great Copa America minus the final and an excellent second half of the season with us. You just don't go from that to finished in a few months. You do get nagging injuries, subsequent lack of fitness, have an adaption period to a new club/country and perhaps a change in emotional level that can effect performance.

He will be back sooner or later, and atleast for the CL and for the ultimate goal of his final WC close to prime. After Qatar, THEN we can talk about his drop off which could be steep.

 

[Rassvet]

It's possible also that Ronaldo is smart enough to adapt to his current limitations and work/worked the role of a poacher.

Messi still wants to be involved in all the actions and control the narrative of the game. When he comes deep, he still thinks he has the physical attributes to pull off the individualistic dribbles which he tried and failed last year with. He doesn't have the discipline (or the trust) of his team mates to just stick to the false 9 role/space or even the AMR that he had.

Still, this thread is way too reactionary. Just this summer, Messi played a great Copa America minus the final and an excellent second half of the season with us. You just don't go from that to finished in a few months. You do get nagging injuries, subsequent lack of fitness, have an adaption period to a new club/country and perhaps a change in emotional level that can effect performance.

He will be back sooner or later, and atleast for the CL and for the ultimate goal of his final WC close to prime. After Qatar, THEN we can talk about his drop off which could be steep.

Reactionary? He's been awful for 5+ months consistently now. The allowances and excuses are bit over the top. The WC is another 10 months away. I don't see why it's necessary to wait 1.5 years of playing poorly before talking about a drop off.

"He will be back sooner or later."

Based on what exactly? He's 34. I don't rule out that he might have a bit of a comeback but odds are against it at his age and based on recent evidence.

 

[Messigician]

Ppl talking trash

Ronaldo is playing more of a playmaker this season than ever before

 

[Morten]

It's possible also that Ronaldo is smart enough to adapt to his current limitations and work/worked the role of a poacher.

Messi still wants to be involved in all the actions and control the narrative of the game. When he comes deep, he still thinks he has the physical attributes to pull off the individualistic dribbles which he tried and failed last year with. He doesn't have the discipline (or the trust) of his team mates to just stick to the false 9 role/space or even the AMR that he had.

Still, this thread is way too reactionary. Just this summer, Messi played a great Copa America minus the final and an excellent second half of the season with us. You just don't go from that to finished in a few months. You do get nagging injuries, subsequent lack of fitness, have an adaption period to a new club/country and perhaps a change in emotional level that can effect performance.

He will be back sooner or later, and atleast for the CL and for the ultimate goal of his final WC close to prime. After Qatar, THEN we can talk about his drop off which could be steep.

You can only adapt as far as long as your legs are working, and in Ronaldo's case, it really seems as if they are gone by now, his football-brain is the same, but his body can no longer execute what his brain tells him.

Entirely possible he will get a goalspree running again, but there will be fewer and fewer of those, as we are seeing.

As for Messi, he is incredible technically, but his physical attributes were also incredible in his prime, so the perfect mix that made him so unique, insane acceleration and good top speed goes a long way, only technique, well, still good in tight spaces but can't take on more than a couple of players anymore.

Won't pass judgement on him just yet, as he did well enough in the CL while still being lackluster in the league, all is forgiven and forgotten if he leads PSG to a CL-final.

 

[Fati_Future_BallonDor]

Just saw the match highlights guys, what a match it was. Playing a high line against France was stupid tactic from Sampaoli. Mbappe who usual missed easy chances to that time was icecold.

 

[Fati_Future_BallonDor]

You can only adapt as far as long as your legs are working, and in Ronaldo's case, it really seems as if they are gone by now, his football-brain is the same, but his body can no longer execute what his brain tells him.

Entirely possible he will get a goalspree running again, but there will be fewer and fewer of those, as we are seeing.

As for Messi, he is incredible technically, but his physical attributes were also incredible in his prime, so the perfect mix that made him so unique, insane acceleration and good top speed goes a long way, only technique, well, still good in tight spaces but can't take on more than a couple of players anymore.

Won't pass judgement on him just yet, as he did well enough in the CL while still being lackluster in the league, all is forgiven and forgotten if he leads PSG to a CL-final.

It's cl for both, the only competition in which they can prove this season that they are still able to make the difference

 

[BarcaOG]

it is what it is, for sure with the way he's playing he's giving reason to push this narrative because people couldn't wait to see him outside of Barca and not because his name is Messi they will have mercy for him but if we want to be honest players have different career traiectory, Ronaldo at 18 was pretty much a mister nobody, he barely scored 5 goals in Portugal, Messi was already starter in Barca, he dominated a clasico where both of teams had world class players, on another hand I have no doubt Messi would never matched Ronaldo numbers with that Juve side, I think Ronaldo would be already in double digit if he was playing with PSG this season, that's because they have different playing style, Ronaldo is kinda finished as well but he still can score headers and tap in, Messi can't do that, if he scores now he needs to bang outside of the box. Messi should have left Barca 2-3 years ago.

nicely put, i dont disagree at all

 

[BarcaOG]

Ppl talking trash

Ronaldo is playing more of a playmaker this season than ever before

i agree. this side of his game is underrated. he is offering some very good passes to the fast united players ie rashford and sancho

 

[Barcilliant]

Messi is still adjusting to life outside Barcelona. In Barcelona he was King on and off the pitch. At Paris he doesn't get the same kind of love. Another big issue is just the lack of cohesion at PSG. Both on and off the pitch PSG seem very disjointed with different factions pushing and pulling in different directions. Look at Pochettino for example. Seems unmotivated and disinterested.
Messi has declined but I think he will improve in this second part of the season. His problem is he wants the ball all the time and drops deep too often. He needs to hang around the box more often and pick his moments. I'll be very interested to see him against Real Madrid.

 

[Jadentheman]

Nice said Hardy dude. Messi would surely score more goals if he would stop to fall deep which often slows down the gameplay of PSG. The midfield players of Paris aren't worldclass (except Verratti) but imo they and the offense would benefit more if Messi plays near the box.

That's my thinking too. The team isn't Barcelona and he has no need to drop in so deep and disrupt whatever they got going on there.He needs to be more near the box and he needs to start doing more aerial long passes(we know he's very capable of this). He has Mbappe at his disposal, he should utilize his speed and runs.

 

[JamDav1982]

Barca played slower football with like likes of Piqu/Busi and Messi slowing game down to their pace.

Messi would drop and slow game down constantly and it was infuriating at times watching Messi jog towards ball when on break and kill it dead as he gets ball. Or rarely move off ball with any urgency to provide options for team mates.

The whole team deferred to Messi and it was left on his toes to try and win game with world class moments far too often to detriment of 'team' play overall.

One of few times Barca game would speed up was when ball at Messis feet and decided to make that riskier pass.

At PSG it looks like he jogs and drops expecting ball as soon as appears but other players are not up for that in way Barca would and dont blame them.

 

[Zidane82]

Messi is still adjusting to life outside Barcelona. In Barcelona he was King on and off the pitch. At Paris he doesn't get the same kind of love. Another big issue is just the lack of cohesion at PSG. Both on and off the pitch PSG seem very disjointed with different factions pushing and pulling in different directions. Look at Pochettino for example. Seems unmotivated and disinterested.
Messi has declined but I think he will improve in this second part of the season. His problem is he wants the ball all the time and drops deep too often. He needs to hang around the box more often and pick his moments. I'll be very interested to see him against Real Madrid.

Great assessment of things imho

 

[JohnN]

Barca played slower football with like likes of Piqu/Busi and Messi slowing game down to their pace.

Messi would drop and slow game down constantly and it was infuriating at times watching Messi jog towards ball when on break and kill it dead as he gets ball. Or rarely move off ball with any urgency to provide options for team mates.

The whole team deferred to Messi and it was left on his toes to try and win game with world class moments far too often to detriment of 'team' play overall.

One of few times Barca game would speed up was when ball at Messis feet and decided to make that riskier pass.

At PSG it looks like he jogs and drops expecting ball as soon as appears but other players are not up for that in way Barca would and dont blame them.

PSG doesn't have an ideal setup or players for Messi, but he is nowhere near his old self, to accommodate him like that.
He has shown glimpses of running more to press, making some runs to receive here and there and still doesn't get involved as much and he's frustrated at teammates.
Messi of past years and a full gas tank wouldn't have a problem playing the PSG way. But now age has finally caught up.