KingMessi
SiempreBlaugrana
Of course we'd take the latter in a heartbeat. It won't happen until this board is kicked out though.
Luis Enrique
- Thread starter Barcaman
- Start date
Of course we'd take the latter in a heartbeat. It won't happen until this board is kicked out though.
Der Kaiser
New member
3/5 people on the forum are like this...
putogusiluz8
The Pale One
The article flavia posted is fantastic, shame it's in Spanish wish you guys could read it. Out of all the things this club has to worry about it's a shame midfield ends up being our big problem Straight up laziness from xavi and iniesta.
I totally agree with you!
What do you think Lucho should do in order to get the team back-on-track in the big matches?
First we must take into consideration the 3 FWs position, with the strikers very narrowly positioned, the atypical Busquets profile is not required.
A definitive and constant Cbs must be chosen, based on form Bartra and Mathieu are our first choice with the FBs being Alba and Alves.
In the midfield Rakitic is a must and as a DM i'll go with Mascherano, in this configuration Xavi will be freed from defensive work, and even if Alves doesn't defend the right wing will be completely secured with the presence of Bartra/Mascherano/Rakitic, Alves will play the role of an additional midfielder and with Neymar and Suarez, Messi can go deep in the field more frequently.
Busquets have the ability to break the opposing team lines, Messi, Xavi and Rakitic can do the same work in this system.
Finally we must reintegrated an effective first defensive line in case we lose the ball, no need for the 3 FWs to do that, 2 FWs and Xavi will be more than enough.
It's an hybrid formation between a 3-4-3 and 3-5-2.
F
Flavia
Guest
Yeah, that guy showed pique and alves were not that bad. It's difficult to see that, but xavi and iniesta really were awful defending.
Well the sides of a wide diamond are not suited to them at all, they were already poor defenders in the 433. I suggeated adiamond before the start of this season but not with the side midfielders in these positions, i prefer them narrower.
If lucho was after that then why didnt he buy a pogba type of player wo is actually suited to it?
If lucho was after that then why didnt he buy a pogba type of player wo is actually suited to it?
While iniesta is playing a Double pivot of Rakitic-Mascherano or Busquets for either one behind him would be needed although defending wise for the wings i rather Mascherano and Rakitic and they are both great with long balls from deep. Messi dropping back to help iniesta initiate attacks and essentially just have iniesta play Xavi's role in spain but with Messi being to Iniesta what iniesta was to xavi (except messi is dropping in from the center as opposed to the wing)
Lucho sounds worse than Tata in the press. He didn't like Mathieu's comments after the match and said he preferred stuff being said to his face and then takes it on to press as well. Similar story re. Montoya. "I pick players that can help the team"?? What the..
Better shut up about it instead making it worse
Better shut up about it instead making it worse
F
Flavia
Guest
I didn't like his pressy, but that translation is wrong. That's not how he referred to Montoya.
He said “Hablan mis hechos y actos, Juegan bien, le tengo aprecio, pero las decisiones son las que son. Es una situación delicada y me fastidia. Tiene que esperar su momento si es que puede llegar. Se está comportando de una manera ejemplar"
MagIX
Senior Member
Why, they have never been good at defending? ever.
The fact is that Guardiola's Barcelona played a soccer never seen before (no problem at this time playing X-B-I) and it took a few years before the opponents understood and decoded the way we played.
Now they have the antidote vs barca. Today it no longer works our system....and in the meantime we did not even notice that the soccer has evolved.
Nowadays the new generation of midfielders do know not only how to create, at the same time and importance, they also know how to defend.
Nowdays is unthinkable to compete at the highest level with big team without the midfield supporting the defense.
Xavi and Iniesta can no longer play together (the classic 4-3-3), the glory days of Xavi-Busquets-Iniesta are over.
Ini8
¡Gr?*cies Xavi!
Not true. Xavi and Iniesta were much more aggressive in their pressing back then and used to track back. One of the reasons why our midfield was regarded as the world's best, not only could they control a match completely, but they could defend as well. Xavi obviously doesn't have the stamina to do that anymore and who knows what's wrong with Iniesta at the moment.
M
Messi4life
Guest
Even before Lucho returned to Barca, I believed he doesn't have what is required for the job. He made Roma to a lesser team and was fired. Lucho is a coach who is best to train smaller teams like Celta Vigo, he doesn't know what it means to lead Barca as we have seen against PSG and Real as both Barcelona and Lucho was humiliated.
Please open your eyes, the only thing that is world class with Barca is MSN (Messi, Suarez and Neymar). The others are not as good as we have already been proven twice so far. We have a very weak midfield and a laughable defense. You can win games (against Grananda at Camp Nou example) with a fantastic attack but no titles.
What scares me is that we have not been impressed against weaker teams either very much to be honest. It has not exactly been brilliant games. Usually it's been the same boring football for the past two years. That even Ajax even came close to having to draw at Camp Nou is sick enough.
But ok, continue to believe that Lucho will succeed but you will be disappointed. Last time we were humiliated at the Bernabeu was in the spring of 2008. We should thank Ronaldos stupid "football brain" that result was not 7-1.
Wins against Granada does not say a damn thing, have you even demands for the club? Go and feel proud when we demean small teams? We have been tested twice (Real Madrid and PSG) and lost both, there are no excuses. End of story.
Please open your eyes, the only thing that is world class with Barca is MSN (Messi, Suarez and Neymar). The others are not as good as we have already been proven twice so far. We have a very weak midfield and a laughable defense. You can win games (against Grananda at Camp Nou example) with a fantastic attack but no titles.
What scares me is that we have not been impressed against weaker teams either very much to be honest. It has not exactly been brilliant games. Usually it's been the same boring football for the past two years. That even Ajax even came close to having to draw at Camp Nou is sick enough.
But ok, continue to believe that Lucho will succeed but you will be disappointed. Last time we were humiliated at the Bernabeu was in the spring of 2008. We should thank Ronaldos stupid "football brain" that result was not 7-1.
Wins against Granada does not say a damn thing, have you even demands for the club? Go and feel proud when we demean small teams? We have been tested twice (Real Madrid and PSG) and lost both, there are no excuses. End of story.
Gaudi
Senior Member
What did Mathieu said?
i_bleed_blaugrana
Senior Member
Take a look at this video real quick and especially the first goal. No way me calling out for Klopp but it reminded me of us so much it made me laugh a bit:
Now I know its St. Pauli (who?) but for that first goal it was such a reminder of the football that we used to play but I can't understand why we don't anymore. They overload one side to establish an even numerical situation, move into triangles and move the ball quickly, selflessly and incisively. Simply no answer for it.
There is nothing stopping this team from playing football exactly like that. Messi's goal against PSG was a good reminder of that and with the right balance and a quicker passing metronome, we could cause teams a lot of problems still.
I think the biggest lesson Lucho learned is that he needs to learn what the starting 11 he wants that is balanced enough to be able to nullify and snuff out counter attacks and ideally win the ball in the midfield. But he has time on his hands and luckily we are still top of the table so its no crisis yet. Its better to lose this game than next years game.
Lucho has a lot to consider though right now with who is going to get the lions share of game time going forward. In my opinion, the front three is a no-brainer and in some ways if Lucho can get Suarez firing sooner than later, that alone could really elevate our overall game. I would rather see a lot less of Pedro however and a lot more of Munir and Sandro. I think Munir alone offers as much and right now more than Pedro does while Sandro's more physical frame I think could become a lot more valuable as the season wears on. He has excellent potential as a super-sub.
The defense is tricky. Huge question marks with Pique at the moment, he does a lot right but these mental lapses are beyond frustrating and increasingly occur too frequently. As a coach, there isn't much you can do except bench him and try him in low risk games to see if he can iron out the mistakes but for now Pique needs to be behind Mathieu. Lucho in a lot of ways is trying to mold Mathieu into the new Abidal which I think is why he threw him out on the LB role at Madrid. At this point in time, he isn't good enough on the ball with his decision making to warrant that kind of position yet but he has a lot to offer as our LCB. Alba-Mathieu on the left is very solid and both players have great recovery speed to put out fires, and since most teams have pacey players on the RW anyway, they could neutralize that side of the field on the counter attack effectively and allow us to overload the other side to win the ball. On the right side is where we have problems and they obviously have to do with He Who Crosses to No One. He was surprisingly solid in Madrid however and his just raw speed and athleticism are good traits to have as long as he stays back more. However, instead of trying to make Mathieu into Abidal, I'd prefer him to experiment with Bartra as a right Abidal. A back four of Alba-Mathieu-Pique-Bartra, in my opinion, achieves exactly what he was trying to do in Madrid but with the better attacking wing back for the team. Bartra isn't slow (he wasn't that far away from Bale in that foot race. Anyone remember how bad he burned Maicon against Inter after they just won the CL? and that was multiple times. Sorry just Bartra gets unfairly critiqued for that goal) and he's good on the ball. Him and Pique would complement each other well and it'd be a nice way to maintain height inside the box to control crosses and set pieces.
Its a shame that its is our midfield that is the biggest concern at the moment because, for the upteenth time, we gave away the two players who should be filling this void to our biggest rivals right now, Chelsea and Bayern. One has butchered his knee multiple times while the other is running riot. Can't help but feel that selling Cesc and Thiago will continue to haunt us down the road. Particularly Thiago considering how unfortunate he has been with injuries. Anyway, Behrox mentioned shifting Xavi into a Pirlo role and honestly with two physical workhorses like Mascherano and Rakitic next to him, its not a bad idea at all. It would allow him freedom to roam the midfield, overload a side when needed to create an extra triangle, drop deep to receive to outlet from the defense and play the ball into attack, and follow the play from behind to thread the final ball or shoot. You will call me crazy but I think Xavi has offered this team more than Iniesta has recently and with Iniesta being injured, now seems a good time to see where Xavi fits into the picture. Rakitic is a lock in the starting midfield for me because he is so well-rounded and is adaptive based on who he plays with and allowing Xavi to take on more of the dictating role will allow Rakitic to focus more on either defending or going forward. The last question then is Busquets vs Mascherano and after his game against Ajax and his performances in the WC, we will be much more defensively solid and be able to withstand counter attacks better with Mascherano than Busquets. In games where Xavi isn't in the picture, Busquets should play because we will need his passing ability but at times I feel that him and Xavi can be a bit too redundant in what they do: recycle possession. Which is why I like a Xavi-Masch-Raki midfield right now, in that we have two solid, robust midfielders who read the game well and are strong in the tackle but can also deliver quality threaded passes from deep. Then Xavi has total freedom to control the game and we don't get so exposed by his lack of defensive attributes. Xavi's sole ability to control a game on his own in the middle trumps Iniesta's too occasional moments of brilliance as of late.
So I think our most balanced 11 that could compete against the best of Europe right now based on form is:
Bravo; Bartra-Pique-Mathieu-Alba; Xavi-Masch-Raki; Suarez-Messi-Neymar
Time will tell what he decides. I am sure he is putting a lot of thought into this and while it isn't a perfect start, I'd rather us peak in March than in October.
Now I know its St. Pauli (who?) but for that first goal it was such a reminder of the football that we used to play but I can't understand why we don't anymore. They overload one side to establish an even numerical situation, move into triangles and move the ball quickly, selflessly and incisively. Simply no answer for it.
There is nothing stopping this team from playing football exactly like that. Messi's goal against PSG was a good reminder of that and with the right balance and a quicker passing metronome, we could cause teams a lot of problems still.
I think the biggest lesson Lucho learned is that he needs to learn what the starting 11 he wants that is balanced enough to be able to nullify and snuff out counter attacks and ideally win the ball in the midfield. But he has time on his hands and luckily we are still top of the table so its no crisis yet. Its better to lose this game than next years game.
Lucho has a lot to consider though right now with who is going to get the lions share of game time going forward. In my opinion, the front three is a no-brainer and in some ways if Lucho can get Suarez firing sooner than later, that alone could really elevate our overall game. I would rather see a lot less of Pedro however and a lot more of Munir and Sandro. I think Munir alone offers as much and right now more than Pedro does while Sandro's more physical frame I think could become a lot more valuable as the season wears on. He has excellent potential as a super-sub.
The defense is tricky. Huge question marks with Pique at the moment, he does a lot right but these mental lapses are beyond frustrating and increasingly occur too frequently. As a coach, there isn't much you can do except bench him and try him in low risk games to see if he can iron out the mistakes but for now Pique needs to be behind Mathieu. Lucho in a lot of ways is trying to mold Mathieu into the new Abidal which I think is why he threw him out on the LB role at Madrid. At this point in time, he isn't good enough on the ball with his decision making to warrant that kind of position yet but he has a lot to offer as our LCB. Alba-Mathieu on the left is very solid and both players have great recovery speed to put out fires, and since most teams have pacey players on the RW anyway, they could neutralize that side of the field on the counter attack effectively and allow us to overload the other side to win the ball. On the right side is where we have problems and they obviously have to do with He Who Crosses to No One. He was surprisingly solid in Madrid however and his just raw speed and athleticism are good traits to have as long as he stays back more. However, instead of trying to make Mathieu into Abidal, I'd prefer him to experiment with Bartra as a right Abidal. A back four of Alba-Mathieu-Pique-Bartra, in my opinion, achieves exactly what he was trying to do in Madrid but with the better attacking wing back for the team. Bartra isn't slow (he wasn't that far away from Bale in that foot race. Anyone remember how bad he burned Maicon against Inter after they just won the CL? and that was multiple times. Sorry just Bartra gets unfairly critiqued for that goal) and he's good on the ball. Him and Pique would complement each other well and it'd be a nice way to maintain height inside the box to control crosses and set pieces.
Its a shame that its is our midfield that is the biggest concern at the moment because, for the upteenth time, we gave away the two players who should be filling this void to our biggest rivals right now, Chelsea and Bayern. One has butchered his knee multiple times while the other is running riot. Can't help but feel that selling Cesc and Thiago will continue to haunt us down the road. Particularly Thiago considering how unfortunate he has been with injuries. Anyway, Behrox mentioned shifting Xavi into a Pirlo role and honestly with two physical workhorses like Mascherano and Rakitic next to him, its not a bad idea at all. It would allow him freedom to roam the midfield, overload a side when needed to create an extra triangle, drop deep to receive to outlet from the defense and play the ball into attack, and follow the play from behind to thread the final ball or shoot. You will call me crazy but I think Xavi has offered this team more than Iniesta has recently and with Iniesta being injured, now seems a good time to see where Xavi fits into the picture. Rakitic is a lock in the starting midfield for me because he is so well-rounded and is adaptive based on who he plays with and allowing Xavi to take on more of the dictating role will allow Rakitic to focus more on either defending or going forward. The last question then is Busquets vs Mascherano and after his game against Ajax and his performances in the WC, we will be much more defensively solid and be able to withstand counter attacks better with Mascherano than Busquets. In games where Xavi isn't in the picture, Busquets should play because we will need his passing ability but at times I feel that him and Xavi can be a bit too redundant in what they do: recycle possession. Which is why I like a Xavi-Masch-Raki midfield right now, in that we have two solid, robust midfielders who read the game well and are strong in the tackle but can also deliver quality threaded passes from deep. Then Xavi has total freedom to control the game and we don't get so exposed by his lack of defensive attributes. Xavi's sole ability to control a game on his own in the middle trumps Iniesta's too occasional moments of brilliance as of late.
So I think our most balanced 11 that could compete against the best of Europe right now based on form is:
Bravo; Bartra-Pique-Mathieu-Alba; Xavi-Masch-Raki; Suarez-Messi-Neymar
Time will tell what he decides. I am sure he is putting a lot of thought into this and while it isn't a perfect start, I'd rather us peak in March than in October.
i_bleed_blaugrana
Senior Member
Pretty much said that he was pretty uncomfortable playing in the LB role and that it was a total surprise to him once Lucho posted the line-up and apparently he hadn't talked to him about it prior. Feels like he had better rhythm in the CB position, which was quite apparent lol. It puts Lucho in an awkward PR situation since he will have to now answer questions about Mathieu's role in the club with this in the press's awareness.
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