Luis Enrique

MagIX

Senior Member
Our midfield: Xavi 35 y.o. in January, Iniesta and Busquets: are they definitely declining ? doubts are growing more and more…I really hope they are simply out of shape, otherwise :surrender:. We sold Fabregas (now he would be helpful), Raktic good buy, but certainly not worth more than 18mio.

The defense was in recent years and sadly still is a weak point ... .. 2 big match, 2 defeats, 6 goals conceded. Reinforcements for defense: Mathieu 31 y.o., Douglas and Vermaelen still injured (injury prone)

The attack is our strength, the best in the world (Messi-Neymar-Suarez), but not enough to win something important.

I honestly do not see what Lucho can do, I do not think it's a matter of giving him time. It's not that the players need time to adapt, the issue that we do not the players (midfield and defense) to compete with big teams. And I do not think is only a question of motivation.
 

Luftstalag14

Culé de Celestial Empire
Reading all your posts (with some really good insights) reinforced my belief that our problem is structural, not just tactical and there is not much Lucho can do to change things around. As someone said, we haven't changed at all and have only gotten worse and slower, other elite teams have figured out how to play against us while we adhere to the same old stuff game in game out. Looks like we need drastic changes.

Oh I am so depressed. Where is hope? If it takes a devil like Mou, so be it.
 
F

Flavia

Guest
This is a great take on the problems of the clasico, but it's in spanish: http://www.rondoblaugrana.net/2014/10/acerca-del-valor-relativo-de-la-tactica.html#.VE5glRYaFEb
Worth of checking it with a translator. The author saves alves and pique's faces, and blames mostly iniesta and xavi for the lack of cover in defense, which exposed the defense a lot, the right side the most.

Reading all your posts (with some really good insights) reinforced my belief that our problem is structural, not just tactical and there is not much Lucho can do to change things around. As someone said, we haven't changed at all and have only gotten worse and slower, other elite teams have figured out how to play against us while we adhere to the same old stuff game in game out. Looks like we need drastic changes.

Oh I am so depressed. Where is hope? If it takes a devil like Mou, so be it.

There's much Lucho can do. Never starting a midfield of X-I-B again is one of them. Lucho gave up everything he was doing before the clasico, and tried the "safe" approach. Probably got scared of rm controlling the match.

Lucho also needs to stop that much rotation. He needs to pick a starting 11. The backline of alves-pique-masch-mathieu played together for the 1st time in the clasico.
 
Our midfield XI should be M-B-R from now on. It would arguably be the least creative midfield we've fielded since the Rijkaard era, but we've got the best attacking trident in the world not only in terms of firepower, but also in terms of creativity. So if we can have a solid enough midfield that can protect the defense and give MSN the freedom to wreak havoc –*then that should do it.
 

Behrox

Vice President of FC Barcelona
Our midfield XI should be M-B-R from now on. It would arguably be the least creative midfield we've fielded since the Rijkaard era, but we've got the best attacking trident in the world not only in terms of firepower, but also in terms of creativity. So if we can have a solid enough midfield that can protect the defense and give MSN the freedom to wreak havoc –*then that should do it.

IMO it should be Masch-Rakitic-Xavi. Put Xavi in the Pirlo role with Masch and Rakitic providing the energy and we'll see the maestro at his best again
 

messi2140

6racies Xavi
Im not sure Xavi will be able to play every match and tbh we need to start working for a Consistent starting 11. if you would ask this forum who will play the next game , you will get 7 different line ups.
 

Luftstalag14

Culé de Celestial Empire
There's much Lucho can do. Never starting a midfield of X-I-B again is one of them. Lucho gave up everything he was doing before the clasico, and tried the "safe" approach. Probably got scared of rm controlling the match.

Lucho also needs to stop that much rotation. He needs to pick a starting 11. The backline of alves-pique-masch-mathieu played together for the 1st time in the clasico.

Changing up personnel is one thing and relatively easy to do, but I am afraid whoever is playing, as long as we don't change the overall approach, e.g. too many touches, slow pace, static movement and the lack of fluidity etc., as someone alluded to, nothing will change.
 

i_bleed_blaugrana

Senior Member
What Gaudi says is true. Formations are almost irrelevant. No formation adjustment will turn the crap from Saturday into a winning performance as long as players take 3 touches, don't move off the ball, can't circulate the ball, don't press, make the wrong decisions etc. etc. etc.

I'm just amused with your posts because you draw up these funny lineups and genuinly seem to believe you have outsmarted the Barca coaches by doing so and done some tactical wizardry.

I won't disagree that formation changes won't mean anything with how we play now. The ball is moved incredibly too slowly, players linger and ponder on the ball instead of making simple passes to drag defenders out and there is no cohesive off the ball movement but I was just saying that to make a point: we have continued with the same tactics, same shape and same attacking moves for three years now with three different coaches and none of them have came up with anything new except the smallest of variations. The really only difference now between Tata and Lucho is that Lucho has the forwards playing more narrow while Tata had them play wide, other than that its been the same thing over and over and THATS what I have my gripes with, an unwillingness to invent and innovate which is why we are in this situation.

Granted, Xavi, Iniesta and Messi aren't the same players of old but its not like they have forgotten how to play and most importantly what made our play so successful. Without quick, one touch passing, overloading sides correctly to press and win the ball and then circulate the ball to open up space to attack, its impossible to be successful.

The way I look at it, one of the key changes that made us into the team we are now was Pep molding Messi into a false 9. Everybody had become so used to him as a winger that it took everyone by surprise when he started playing in the middle and that evolution alone really helped give us the tactical innovation we needed to dominate the game. All I am asking for is something similar, we just need to rethink a bit how we are using the players in this squad.

For me there are three glaring issues tactically with our current 4-3-3 which in reality is a 2-5-3:

1. Busquets can no longer defend a midfield by himself, his lack of pace is getting woefully exposed on the counter attack. He either needs to start adapting and evolving his game to be more of Xavi-esq controlling midfielder (something that will be very difficult for him with his lack of pace) or we put a more physically imposing and flexible DM next to him. However, by doing so, you lose a player somewhere else which means either a) we play with only one purely attacking midfielder and shift more into a 4-2-3-1 or we rework our shape either at the back or up top. That is why I posted that 3-5-2 first because I think its that direction more that we need to head towards instead of a double-pivot 4-2-3-1

2. We need to rethink what we do with width. The key characteristic of Lucho's Barca is the narrow front three which is great for allowing them more freedom to link-up and get in behind but puts more pressure on the wingbacks to provide a wide outlet. Right now our play usually flows from the middle toward the wings and then back inside a la a cross or a cut back pass to someone overloading the box. Without any real physical attacking threat, especially through the air, this sort of approach makes little sense and considering how we continue to get burned on counter attacks when our wingbacks get caught up the pitch, we need to find different ways to develop width. Right now the only players who can really succeed playing wide is Alba, Alves and Pedro. The latter two being shadows of their former selves and the fact that they are our only players who can fulfill those positions is worrying. The Cuadrado obssession with Lucho this summer is beginning to make more and more sense now, a player like that who can play the ball on the ground, in the air and who has pace, dribbling ability and the ability to finish chances from a wide position would make us a lot more lethal.

3. We need to adapt different formations and shapes for certain teams, particularly in Europe. Teams rarely nowadays can play with one tactical look all season and be successful. For example, Borussia Dortmund continue to struggle in Budesliga despite their success in Europe. Why? Because all the German teams now know what to expect from them and can neutralize their effectiveness. The best teams in Europe right now are tactically flexible and have numerous setups for different tactical situations and especially considering the success we had by making changes like that in the past, having 2-3 formations and setups as opposed to one and only one way of playing will make it much harder for teams to simply park the bus and counter. Namely finding ways to overcome 4-4-2, its coming back with a vengeance now and both Madrid teams play a 4-4-2 specifically because it neutralizes how our 4-3-3/2-5-3 works now. By raising the anti tactically we can catch teams off guard and force them to re-evolve themselves.

We have a very capable squad still but its all simply too stale. With a new approach and by rethinking some roles of our key players, this team can still compete and beat the best in Europe.
 
Our midfield: Xavi 35 y.o. in January, Iniesta and Busquets: are they definitely declining ? doubts are growing more and more…I really hope they are simply out of shape, otherwise :surrender:. We sold Fabregas (now he would be helpful), Raktic good buy, but certainly not worth more than 18mio.

The defense was in recent years and sadly still is a weak point ... .. 2 big match, 2 defeats, 6 goals conceded. Reinforcements for defense: Mathieu 31 y.o., Douglas and Vermaelen still injured (injury prone)

The attack is our strength, the best in the world (Messi-Neymar-Suarez), but not enough to win something important.


I honestly do not see what Lucho can do, I do not think it's a matter of giving him time. It's not that the players need time to adapt, the issue that we do not the players (midfield and defense) to compete with big teams. And I do not think is only a question of motivation.

+1000
 

gatsu

New member
Our midfield: Xavi 35 y.o. in January, Iniesta and Busquets: are they definitely declining ? doubts are growing more and more…I really hope they are simply out of shape, otherwise :surrender:. We sold Fabregas (now he would be helpful), Raktic good buy, but certainly not worth more than 18mio.

The defense was in recent years and sadly still is a weak point ... .. 2 big match, 2 defeats, 6 goals conceded. Reinforcements for defense: Mathieu 31 y.o., Douglas and Vermaelen still injured (injury prone)

The attack is our strength, the best in the world (Messi-Neymar-Suarez), but not enough to win something important.

I honestly do not see what Lucho can do, I do not think it's a matter of giving him time. It's not that the players need time to adapt, the issue that we do not the players (midfield and defense) to compete with big teams. And I do not think is only a question of motivation.

After only 12 matchs, after 2 defeats, you are already drawing a dark and gloomy painting without even considering every possibilities, without analyzing things objectively and rationally, tell me, do you know a coach who did great after taking for the first time a top european club, except Pep which was a true and unique genius, no one, for example, Mourinho and Ancelotti suffered both from great loss in their debuts.

Madrid domination was not as flawless as people want us to believe, the first half was pretty even, it was nothing like the 5-0 in Camp Nou, so please people calm down.
Yes Xavi is 35 years old, yes Iniesta and Busquets are not doing well, but we have good substitution options, Rakitic has not show the 1/3 of what he is capable of which is understandable, he needs time to adapt, noway he is not worth the 18M, technically and tactically he is more than Barça quality; Mascherano can perfectly play in the DM position and there is always Samper which is a unique talent, and i'm pretty sure, with competitive environment, Iniesta and Busquets will step up their game.

We have one of the best squad in europe, Lucho just needs to totaly express his games ideas and to instaure true meritocracy, the best team in the first half of the season is not necesseraly the team who will win trophies in May/June.
 
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Kasperroed

New member
After only 12 matchs, after 2 defeats, you are already drawing a dark and gloomy painting without even considering every possibilities, without analyzing things objectively and rationally, tell me, do you know a coach who did great after taking for the first time a top european club, except Pep which was a true and unique genius, no one, for example, Mourinho and Ancelotti suffered both from great loss in their debuts.

Madrid domination was not as flawless as people want us to believe, the first half was pretty even, it was nothing like the 5-0 in Camp Nou, so please people calm down.
Yes Xavi is 35 years old, yes Iniesta and Busquets are not doing well, but we have good substitution options, Rakitic has not show the 1/3 of what he is capable of which is understandable, he needs time to adapt, noway he is not worth the 18M, technically and tactically he is more than Barça quality; Mascherano can perfectly play in the DM position and there is always Samper which is a unique talent, and i'm pretty sure, with competitive environment, Iniesta and Busquets will step up their game.

We have one of the best squad in europe, Lucho just needs to totaly express his games ideas and to instaure true meritocracy, the best team in the first half of the season is not necesseraly the team who will win trophies in May/June.

I totally agree with you!

What do you think Lucho should do in order to get the team back-on-track in the big matches? :)
 

Zebulun

Senior Member
Reading all your posts (with some really good insights) reinforced my belief that our problem is structural, not just tactical and there is not much Lucho can do to change things around. As someone said, we haven't changed at all and have only gotten worse and slower, other elite teams have figured out how to play against us while we adhere to the same old stuff game in game out. Looks like we need drastic changes.

Oh I am so depressed. Where is hope? If it takes a devil like Mou, so be it.

you guys willing to give mou a chance over bringing pep back .. *loads gun*
 

Zebulun

Senior Member
our board is just too stupid, assuming xavi and iniesta will not decline is insane. not sure if the board even watched u21's but thiago was a monster so too isco, but nope we strengthen rivals with our stupidity. but i love my club, was here before the glory and will continue to be here after.
 

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