Luis Enrique

Bertus

New member
They were not at their best because our players didn't let them be... way to underrate our performance. Odd that they didn't feel any after-effects in their next game, in the bernabeu.
How is it underrating?

Them maybe being tired mentally and/or physically doesn't mean Barca didn't do great.

I believe, after watching a good part of this game, that whatever happened, Barca would have won, but what's wrong in saying that playing against RM just a few days before that might have had some bad/side effects?
 
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Flavia

Guest
How is it underrating?

Them maybe being tired mentally and/or physically doesn't mean Barca didn't do great.

I believe, after watching a good part of this game, that whatever happened, Barca would have won, but what's wrong in saying that playing against RM just a few days before that might have had some bad/side effects?

If there was a team having a bad time, it was Barça. Have you already forgotten what was going on at the time?

Atletico came as favorites to not only win, but thrash Barça. They had just won 2-0 vs rm, so they were not under any bad effects. If anything, beating a rival like that improves morale.
 

DonAK

President of FC Barcelona
We were not at our best last season. We were not at our best when we lost against Bayern in the CL. If we were at our best then I'm sure the result could have been much different!

Oh poor Atleti...They just cannot lose and get dominated by a rampaging FC Barcelona. Must not be at their best if something of that sort ever happens.

Enough with the sarcasm, have people forgotten how we were before that game? With all the media hysteria? And the results on the field? If anything then we were not at our best after all the issues this season, but we still won convincingly against an Atletico Madrid who rested most of their starters and won against their city rivals, the league leaders, Real Madrid.
 
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Kohe321

New member
It has to be said though, that our performance came as a huge surprise to all of us. It's not like we trashed them playing at the same level as we did against Sociedad...

So that argument of how poorly we had done doesn't work, because when the Atletico match came along, we were suddenly on fire - and still was mid-week against Elche, and still was against Deportivo. Something changed in the team after Bartomeu confirmed that there will be early elections.
 
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Hamzah

High Definition Member
i'm not underrating our performance, it was our best since the milan cl game, we would have won anyway. i just said that they will be tougher to play this time.

people are getting hysterical in here
 
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Bertus

New member
If there was a team having a bad time, it was Barça. Have you already forgotten what was going on at the time?

Atletico came as favorites to not only win, but thrash Barça. They had just won 2-0 vs rm, so they were not under any bad effects. If anything, beating a rival like that improves morale.
As if we don't read those kind of posts here when Barca loses.

Saying that we have the squad but if the tactic was better, the coach was better, we "could" have done better.

Do people underrate other clubs when they say that? No. They just state something that is not necessarily wrong, and that doesn't mean the results would have been different either.
 
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Chainsaw

Killahead
They were not at their best because our players didn't let them be... way to underrate our performance. Odd that they didn't feel any after-effects in their next game, in the bernabeu.

I'm not gonna take anything away from Barca's unexpected performance but I think you are a bit overrating Barca's performance overally. Atleti wasn't at their best because Barca didn't allow them is only half part of the truth. Atleti was too exposed in the back with several individual's mistakes which also played a part in the goals they conceded. That's so unlike them. I think Simeone did wrong in fielding certain players in his initial line-up which backfired. I don't think he will do the same mistakes again, and we will see how much that actually played an important part in Barca dominating them in the past game.
 

Icarium

Lifestealer
We probably won't see the kind of match we played in the first half of last atletico match but we will mostly see the second half performance. As the match is at Camp Nou no matter how big the bus they park and how well simeone gets the tactics right we will defeat them by a goal or two if we play like we did in the last few matches.

Mentally atletico might not have given all in for barca match, they were more concerned about derby as it is very important to them and simeone also underestimated barca too much. He kind of let his team attack and get a goal which results in good counter attacks by barca and when you have ney, luis and leo up front you have chances of converting those counters into goals. On Wednesday it will completely be a different match though, simeone will not make the same mistake again. He will definitely let his team defend deep and hit us on counters and set pieces.

Atletico will defend deep again mostly because they can't let the middle of the pitch to be free (otherwise messi will run riot) this leaves us open on wings. Instead of putting useless crosses we should play messi and neymar out wide and drag defenders wide and do some quick passes to get into the box. Messi and Neymar must make those incisive runs from wide into the box dribbling all the way among atletico swarm. We should not put useless crosses over the box though, that is what happened last season and even real tried to do just that against atletico. It just won't work at least for barca.

i'm not underrating our performance, it was our best since the milan cl game, we would have won anyway. i just said that they will be tougher to play this time.

people are getting hysterical in here

Yep obviously it will be tougher this time. But we did not win against them because they were tired. They were not tired physically because they benched many starters against real. Mentally they might be tired but we also have to think about barca situation, they were under huge pressure to win the match. That is a lot of mental stress too, at the end of the day i believe we won because of our tactics and some simeone mistakes. He kind of underestimated barca and did not park an airplane like they did last season.
 
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Flavia

Guest
As if we don't read those kind of posts here when Barca loses.

Saying that we have the squad but if the tactic was better, the coach was better, we "could" have done better.

Do people underrate other clubs when they say that? No. They just state something that is not necessarily wrong, and that doesn't mean the results would have been different either.

And I'm saying I don't agree with that specific excuse. They weren't tired, nor the match against rm affected their performance. The hellish enviroment Barça players were under was much worse. Messi wants LE fired, Messi is leaving, LE will be sacked, etc, etc.

Simeone might have messed up his lineup for some, but I think he was caught by surprise. If Barça players hadn't stepped up as they did, his tactics would had probably worked.
 

zanela

Senior Member
And I'm saying I don't agree with that specific excuse. They weren't tired, nor the match against rm affected their performance. The hellish enviroment Barça players were under was much worse. Messi wants LE fired, Messi is leaving, LE will be sacked, etc, etc.
Simeone might have messed up his lineup for some, but I think he was caught by surprise. If Barça players hadn't stepped up as they did, his tactics would had probably worked.

Tactical failure aside, mental fatigue and distraction of an upcoming decisive encounter can translate to sluggish performances and individual errors. Completely dismissing the latter is your prerogative. I'd rather take a more comprehensive approach in my evaluation.

And if I may add, being faced with a cloud of uncertainties, also gives one more incentives to want to show up.
 
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Flavia

Guest
Tactical failure aside, mental fatigue and distraction of an upcoming decisive encounter can translate to sluggish performances and individual errors. Completely dismissing the latter is your prerogative. I'd rather take a more comprehensive approach in my evaluation.

And if I may add, being faced with a cloud of uncertainties, also gives one more incentives to want to show up.

And your prerogative is to underrate Barça's performance? Because Atlético won against rm. You are ignoring the confidence boost that gives. They had a good cushion for the next game, and the liga is their primary objective, not the cdr. That's why simeone rested half of his team against rm.

I don't know what made the players perform, but if recent history is taken into account, whenever too much pressure and uncertainty were present, they failed.
 

mssarm

Member
I don't buy mental fatigue argument for Atleti players. Just remember what was Barca going through. Media was after Barca, attacking on every level. Everyone was target: the players, the coach, the board. Do you think you can concentrate on the game in the environment like that? Obviously there was some consensus reached in the dressing room which made the coach and the players put their ego-s aside and create the synergy like we had under Pep. Since that game we see inspired Barca and we currently are playing at level of our golden era. I just hope it continues: at this level we can win everything. As for Atleti: maybe they were hoping for easy victory, but that's the only excuse for them. I saw Simone's face during the game- he was frozen, he was lost, he had no idea what to do to save the game. It wasn't tactical error from him, he just did not know what to do. This time he is going to try find a solution, but the bigger question is: can Barca perform at the same level. If the answer is yes- Simeone can spend sleepless nights in front of drawing board only to see his team take the beating again.
 
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Sumlit

San Claudio Bravo
We can all speculate about the turmoil Barca were under, and how that could have affected the team etc. We can also speculate as to the mental and physical state of Atletico before the match. But those would only be that, speculations.

What we can appreciate is the very much apparent change in the way the team approached and played that game, which was percolating even from the previous game vs Elche in Copa. Fullbacks at the halfway line, many times playing inside as DMs. Midfielders interchanging with the wingers. Messi dragging the fullback and Rakitic attacking the space left behind to break the back 4. The way Barca played definitely created some trouble for Atletico and caught them very much unprepared.

Simeone playing Gamez at left back being a right footed player was very much a planned attempt to stop Messi, whom he knew was going to play in the wing, from cutting inside to his left foot. The dynamic of Messi, Rakitic and the fullbacks totally undid what Simeone had planned. From that wing the game was broken and it had very much to do with the way the team was set up to play. All 3 goals were borne from this tactic.

Look here. This is the moments that preceded the first goal vs Atletico. Look at the shape. Alves and Alba almost in line with Busquets, Alves tucked inside not hugging the wing, almost like another midfielder. Both Rakitic and Iniesta preoccupying the defense. Now also look at Messi in relation to Neymar. Neymar is almost level with Suarez, but Messi is deeper.

1vLwH1L.png


Immediately after, Alves passed to Messi. Notice again, Neymar is almost level with Suarez but Messi is deeper. Notice also how Messi receiving the ball deeper drags Gamez away from the back 4 formation, also drags Koke to try to double team Messi. Notice thirdly how Rakitic immediately attacks the space left by Gamez, dragging both Thiago and Godin away from their formations.

ul0Yq2L.png


This is the result. Four defenders for 2 players in the right wing. The back 4 defensively is broken.

BndKztq.png


Rakitic does well to release the ball back to Alves and watch how unorganized Atletico is left by the simple move of Messi receiving deeper, dragging Gamez, and Rakitic attacking the space. Godin is out of position and sprinting to recover. Gamez left guarding no one. Thiago and Koke are scrambling. A nice penetrating pass from Alves to Messi creates all sorts of havoc and leads to the goal in which both Suarez and Neymar are 1v1 in the box vs Gimenez and Juanfran.

x18SSoz.png


The other 2 goals were from similar dynamics.

I've no doubt Simeone will adjust to this and then we'll see. I also still have doubts whether he'll field a starting 11 or again another B side like he did in the first leg vs Real Madrid. In any case, there is only so much he can do to counter Messi's presence. Maybe he'll pull Thiago from the middle to double team him with Koke, instead of pulling the fullback, but that leaves the midfield expose. Maybe he's willing to sacrifice that. Give the ball to the lesser midfield and have them beat you vs allowing Messi to beat you instead.
 

zanela

Senior Member
And your prerogative is to underrate Barça's performance? Because Atlético won against rm. You are ignoring the confidence boost that gives. They had a good cushion for the next game, and the liga is their primary objective, not the cdr. That's why simeone rested half of his team against rm.

I don't know what made the players perform, but if recent history is taken into account, whenever too much pressure and uncertainty were present, they failed.

One, starting a player on the bench in a high-pressure game doesn't amount to "resting". Two, the factors in contention may or may not 've played a part, but I choose not to ignore in this instance as I saw physical evidence in this effect. Three, that doesn't, however, mean I'm underrating my team's performance. It's one thing to identify a weakness, and another to exploit it. That deserves credit, and Barca deserves credit. Four, with much uncertainity and an ultimatum in the Barca camp, playing a big team at home was basically the perfect platform to quell the detractors.
 

JamDav1982

Senior Member
One, starting a player on the bench in a high-pressure game doesn't amount to "resting". Two, the factors in contention may or may not 've played a part, but I choose not to ignore in this instance as I saw physical evidence in this effect. Three, that doesn't, however, mean I'm underrating my team's performance. It's one thing to identify a weakness, and another to exploit it. That deserves credit, and Barca deserves credit. Four, with much uncertainity and an ultimatum in the Barca camp, playing a big team at home was basically the perfect platform to quell the detractors.

Did you predict the Barca performance before the game?

Seems like a foregone conclusion the way you describe it.

Clearly Atleticos main focus was the Barca game, evident in the teams the put out for each of the games.
 

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