Luis Enrique

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linetty

Guest
Anyway, the players need a major ass kicking and I hope Lucho can provide that. They looked like they didn't care today, this winning streak fucked up their heads. Seriously, all I see is a bunch of guys that won basically everything and a few lads that actually tried to do something. Iniesta is in ghost mode since like three years and only Messi dropping deep is masking his flaws and the 'I don't care' attitude.
 
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Gasgas

Guest
Had he rested messi and neymar wisely when he had the time none of this would happened. They loooked tired and ,lethargic
 

DonAndres

Wild Man of Borneo
Lucho himself claims that there has been no tactical changes since the defeat against Anoeta.

The team started to perform better due to our two most imminent individuals (Messi especially and Neymar). Not due to some revolutionary tactically changes from Lucho. Anyway my premise from the start was that the 11-game winning steak is not the real level of the team this season. I very much hope that I will be wrong but I doubt it.

We didn't just get 3 wins against Atletico, have the likes of Pique, Messi, Neymar, etc. go on peak form, and tie Pep's best win record immediately after our absolute worst state as a club without any changes. That's just naive. There's more to see than just 'Messi is scoring and assisting, Neymar is scoring=good team". Our passing transition improved (a good reason as to why we've been able to adjust the pace of our verticality at will), Alves' offensive role changed, Rakitic's support role became much more deliberate and effective in helping Messi. We tactically outclassed Atleti in the league and CDR, hitting them fast and on the break when we wanted to. We displayed great tactical maturity against an extremely in form Villarreal team as well. The quality of our overall play improving is NOT just because Neymar upped his conversion rate and Messi decided to play better. The improvement of the system helped them as much as they've helped us. It's just lazy to say that Messi and Neymar orchestrated a team-wide improvement just by being on form.

Is Lucho revolutionary? No, these changes aren't miraculous or paradigm-shifting. They are, however, an example of him doing the right thing. Playing to our strengths and getting the team to perform.

There was close to no other options. Pushing Alves and Alba upfront as permanent wingers would have guaranteed a presence on the wings at least. There was zero room in front of the penalty box. A lucky deflection or a precise flat cross was the team's best option of scoring today. That or a free kick.

He should have subbed Pedro on right after the half-time. There was no need to wait. Rafinha was invincible. The team needed firepower up front.

You omitted the unexplainable substitution of Mascherano? What was he actually going to contribute with offensively speaking? He had Xavi on the bench.

We had plenty of presence on the wings. Alves/Alba/Messi were often attacking on the wings with direct balls to the middle. Pushing the fullbacks up permanently would've just made it a more static presence instead of their usual late runs. 'Presence on the wings' offers no explanation as to how playing Alves/Alba higher would have changed the game (they'd be giving the same output more or less).

Rakitic was subbed for Rafinha, not Pedro. Pedro for Iniesta could've been done at the same time as the Raki sub but you really can't have expected that to change much. It didn't change much later on as Pedro couldn't provide a new avenue for penetration. You bring up Xavi again yet I'm puzzled as to how you think Xavi could possibly help the team? His history against parked buses speaks for itself, we would've been more stale if anything. He's not a better set piece taker than Rakitic or better with offensive runs/shooting so he couldn't have provided a lone, spontaneous moment of fortune either. Mascherano's sub was to play a 3-4-3, which ultimately proved to be a lateral change and not one that really helped/hurt us. Xavi wouldn't have been any better.

As for the whole "has not changed the course of a match with tactical changes" criticism, I find that to be a pretty bullshit criteria but even that can be deemed false considering the Almeria win where he subbed Suarez on after HT (playing Messi deep and Suarez up top helped us create chances, namely Suarez assisting 2 for the comeback win). I'd classify that match as one of Lucho's low points where he was fortunate to walk away with all 3 points but it technically is an example of him 'changing a match' with subs and adjustments.

Málaga were not lucky at all nor brutal. Gracia outclassed Lucho tactically (one again mind you) and unlike FCB they played with real desire and were committed to running their asses of. None of that was visible from Lucho's team despite FCB having much, much more to play for and despite playing at home.

They were lucky, there were a number of bad refereeing decisions. They were lucky to have a goal early on due to Alves's error. They were lucky that this caused the team's momentum to die out as time went by and they had the luxury to just sit back and defend (we were building some good attacks in the first half).

Tactically, they did play the right system to win. Park the bus in the box, leave the wings with literally no markers, and crowd Messi whenever he gets the ball. We kind of fell for it and decided that crossing was our best chance of winning, which is pretty unreliable. As I said, we would have been better off using the same approach we did against Atletico: play without patience and hit them on the counter. This game was a bad game but not evidence of a systemic failure. Lucho may not be "the one" but I won't blame this match on him and I'll continue to give him the benefit of the doubt for the near future as he's done practically all he can to deserve it.
 

Leo_Messi

New member
Sure, 48 crosses. Great tactic.

This I won't blame Lucho for. When your opposition, in this case Málaga, are parking their Airbus A380 in front of their goal you have to make the pitch bigger. You do that mainly by stretching the field and creating two vertical lines on both flanks of the pitch.

Regarding those 48 crosses. Are corner kicks and free kicks included here? If so shorten that number to a half.

There were very few other options today. The team is generally very poor in the air. You could say that the intensity should have been greater and I agree. More valuable runs should have been made by both Neymar and Suárez. The team should have threatened Kameni from the distance too. Unfortunately not many of our players are able to do that.

If just Alves and Alba were more composed crossers of the ball and preferred to make flat and hard crosses it would have looked differently. I don't understand why Lucho is not instructing them to make mostly hard, flat and precise crosses. It's very hard to defend against and in a very crowded penalty box such crosses can turn into deflections.

I saw maybe 2-3 of such crosses in 93-94 minutes of play. Despite Alba and Alves having tons of space in long periods of the game. As one of the few FCB players on the pitch.
 
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serghei

Senior Member
This game was a bad game but not evidence of a systemic failure. Lucho may not be "the one" but I won't blame this match on him and I'll continue to give him the benefit of the doubt for the near future as he's done practically all he can to deserve it.

Well, it depends on what do you think a coach should do. A manager is responsbile if the players show a lack of motivation in an important game. The team wasn't mentally in the game. That's on the manager. Tactics can't help you if the other team wants the win more than you do. Malaga's coach prepared the game much better than Lucho did.
 
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Leo_Messi

New member
I see where you're coming from but seriously on a day where Messi fucks up half of his passes nothing can be done. You can't give only a pinch of credit to Lucho for a winning streak that equaled the almighty Pep. I doubt you can win 11 games in a row solely due to individual brilliance especially when that 11 games consists 3 games against very well organized Atleti side.

Look, the few tactical changes that he did after the embarrassing defeat at Anoeta were changes that most of us fans called for weeks prior to him finally "seeing the light". As stubborn as he is he even denies those few tactical changes. In his typical awkward fashion mind you.

Once again, nowhere do I write or did I write, that the 11-game winning steak (kind of overrated as a whole too but that's another discussion) was solely down to Messi's brilliance or Neymar's. I am just not willing to give Lucho most of the credit.

Partially because I believe that the winning streak had more to do with our two most imminent attacking players stepping up big time (especially the best of them all - Messi) and the momentum that the team rode on. I also believe that those few tactical changes should have been done much, much earlier. Maybe the team would not have lost against La Real or been unable to defeat Getafe.

Lastly I never saw Lucho as the right man for the job but that's another discussion altogether.
 

JamDav1982

Senior Member
Well, it depends on what do you think a coach should do. A manager is responsbile if the players show a lack of motivation in an important game. The team wasn't mentally in the game. That's on the manager.

But you dont seem to give Lucho credit for motivating the players in games like Atletico when they played like men possessed.

Did you not say that players will all be motivated after a season of winning nothing so Lucho deserves no credit? I am sure you did.

So let me get this right - motivated players is down to players drive. Unmotivated players is down to manager.

You contradict yourself all the time on here.
 
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Flavia

Guest
Well, it depends what do you think a coach should do. A manager is responsbile if the players show a lack of motivation in an important game. The team wasn't mentally in the game. That's on the manager.

We had similar bad games under Pep, Tito, Tata. LE might have failed in keeping the players down to earth after so many wins. Complacency hit, it showed today. That and starting Iniesta and Rafinha. Tha duo shouldn't play together, as Xavi-Iniesta also shouldn't.
 

serghei

Senior Member
But you dont seem to give Lucho credit for motivating the players in games like Atletico when they played like men possessed.

Did you not say that players will all be motivated after a season of winning nothing so Lucho deserves no credit? I am sure you did.

So let me get this right - motivated players is down to players drive. Unmotivated players is down to manager.

You contradict yourself all the time on here.

I did. I said this year we matched Atletico on desire to win, and that's the main reason why we won against them. That's giving the team and Lucho credit. However, the game at hom against Atletico, which we won 3-1, is just as important as the game we lost today because we didn't give a f..k.

Unmotivated players is always down to the manager. It's his job to make sure the players TRY hard to win every game. That's not even for discussion.

We had similar bad games under Pep, Tito, Tata. LE might have failed in keeping the players down to earth after so many wins. Complacency hit, it showed today. That and starting Iniesta and Rafinha. Tha duo shouldn't play together, as Xavi-Iniesta also shouldn't.

How can you be complacent when you're actually behind someone in the league? You can be complacent, and it is understandable, if you're like Bayern in Bundesliga. That's normal. Players don't focus as hard because they are 99.99% champions either way. But we, we who have to come from behind and put pressure on Madrid, how can we afford the luxury to waste points because of complacency?

Pep left after he felt the team got complacent.
 
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Barcaman

Administrator
Staff member
Not Lucho's fault our captain has the worst attitude of them all.
Iniesta shouldn't play a game until he decides if he wants to play football.
 

KingMessi

SiempreBlaugrana
Not Lucho's fault our captain has the worst attitude of them all.
Iniesta shouldn't play a game until he decides if he wants to play football.

Pains me to say this, but Iniesta needs the bench treatment. Xavi and Messi are far more capable as captains.
 

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