Luis Enrique

DrPepper

New member
After Guardiola we still had to face Mourinho, plus Simeone's Atletico--the latter a especially difficult defensive team to beat. Think Champions League 2013/2014.

And yes, that was Pep's weakness. We struggled in those situations often. By definition, that's what you call a weakness: something you cannot overcome.

How did we struggle? Creating chances and not being able to finish them is not what I would call struggling, just being unlucky. The only time we truly looked like the second best team was against Chelsea in 09. No comparison to not being able to create any meaningful scoring opportunities as in our clashes against Atletico in 13/14.

Pep's weakness isn't being unable to destroy airplanes, but rather his stubbornness or inability to play a more mixed way other than his typical 75% possession in the opposition's half football. With the frequency he faces those teams he does exceptionally well at breaking them.


Your mourinho obsession is giving me a headache bro.

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i_bleed_blaugrana

Senior Member
We don't face buses anymore because of our tactics, we sit deeper and play more open.

Pep's system demolished most buses he faced. He for the most part, outclassed Mou on numerous occasions. Chelsea 2012 was beyond a fluke, no one besides Messi could finish back then. It was freaking Alexis and Cesc supporting him attack. We completely outclassed them at Stamford Bridge and if we had a real striker who could finish chances like Drogba did, we probably defend the CL that year. Also Messi's PK miss in the 2nd leg was just a gut shot to the team, the crowd and certainty me. If Pep had MSN, he'd be having a field day here.

That being said, these results aren't due to Lucho's ineptitude. A perfect storm of chance and circumstance brought this about, a reoccurring theme with us. Neymar's absence in all of this can't be stressed enough.

The season hasn't started yet. As usual, the true acid test is La Liga and the first clasico. Until then, let the man breath.

I expect us to drop points this first game, the media shitstorm will start and the team will realize it's time to wake up. No title was won on Matchday 1.
 
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vigneshFCB

Guest
The same can be said about Lucho's Barca, including vs Bilbao.

wth? Seriously? Athletic Bilbao DOMINATED Barca in the first leg. Pep's Barca were never dominated. Don't even suggest that Lucho's Barca were as dominant against Bilbao as the legendary Pep Guardiola side were against Inter and Chelsea. Bilbao were simply better, you cannot say about Inter in 2010 or Chelsea in 2012.
 

Chainsaw

Killahead
You cannot blame the oppositions to play defensive against Barca. We have to blame Barca as why they allow the opposition to organize themselves in the back by wasting too much time passing the ball sideways.
 

Alik

Moderator
wth? Seriously? Athletic Bilbao DOMINATED Barca in the first leg. Pep's Barca were never dominated. Don't even suggest that Lucho's Barca were as dominant against Bilbao as the legendary Pep Guardiola side were against Inter and Chelsea. Bilbao were simply better, you cannot say about Inter in 2010 or Chelsea in 2012.

I'm not talking about the first leg.

We're talking about buses aren't we? What bus did you see in the first leg?

Under Guardiola, we seemed to be able to break through these parked buses so easily.
 
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vigneshFCB

Guest
I'm not talking about the first leg.

We're talking about buses aren't we? What bus did you see in the first leg?

I see. Athletic, in my opinion, did park the bus in the second leg (they didn't in the first), but they were not in any way inferior to us even in the second leg. It wasn't like Barca were laying siege to their goal (IIRC Messi goal was Barca's first shot on target). My point is that Lucho's Barca is much weaker at attacking parked buses than Pep's barca.
 

BBZ8800

Senior Member
I see. Athletic, in my opinion, did park the bus in the second leg (they didn't in the first), but they were not in any way inferior to us even in the second leg. It wasn't like Barca were laying siege to their goal (IIRC Messi goal was Barca's first shot on target). My point is that Lucho's Barca is much weaker at attacking parked buses than Pep's barca.

But you don't need to face parked buses if you play faster.
Pep's setup basically begged our opponents: "Please guys, park the Boeing or two of them infront of your box"

Remember how many times during Pep we had a chance to counter, but Xavi or Busi would slow down the game, in order so that we could take our attacking shape, but also, so that our opponents could take their Boeing-shape.

So, on one hand, yes, Pep's team was better at breaking buses because they needed to play against buses for 95% of time (they were partially guilty for that).
On the other hand, Pep's team was extremely one-dimensional, it knew only one way how to break the opponents (with possession, shortpassing game and mostly through the middle).
If it worked, awesome.
But if didn't, Pep didn't have a plan B and he would just repeat the same action over and over like an idiot in hope that he will eventually magically break the bus through the crowded middle from the 1000th attempt.
Also, after 3-4-5 years, virtually any semi-decent team figured out how to park two Boeings around their box and we struggled against anyone.

So, it is questionable whether we have faced tougher opponent's back then, as some said, or our system was way too one dimensional and too easy to neutralize after 2-3 years of success.

On the other hand, Lucho's team (and Rijkaard's Barca did the same) will sometimes "give" you possession so that you will open up (you can't park the Boeing infront of your box if you HAVE the ball).
And then, when we take the ball, without Xavi's/Busi's slowing down like in the past, we now play deadly MSN counterattacks.

So, imo, saying how Pep's team was better in breaking buses is irrelevant.
That is only one aspect of the game.
It is the same as saying that Chelsea scores more goals from corners than Barca.
Who cares? That is only aspect of the game.
Barca has more different weapons today than Chelsea.
And also, Lucho's Barca has more different weapons to break the opponents (not only because of MSN quality, but because of more versatile tactics) than Pep's Barca.

So, breaking the opponent's bus is the same virtue as having more long-ranged goals scored, more goals from corners, more goals after crosses etc.
Irrelevant since it is only one aspect of the game.
And especially since Pep "asked" our opponents to play that way...
 
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Stric

New member
It seems to me that some people intentionally remember the entire 08-12 era by two games against Chelsea.
 
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vigneshFCB

Guest
But you don't need to face parked buses if you play faster.
Pep's setup basically begged our opponents: "Please guys, park the Boeing or two of them infront of your box"

Remember how many times during Pep we had a chance to counter, but Xavi or Busi would slow down the game, in order so that we could take our attacking shape, but also, so that our opponents could take their Boeing-shape.

So, on one hand, yes, Pep's team was better at breaking buses because they needed to play against buses for 95% of time (they were partially guilty for that).
On the other hand, Pep's team was extremely one-dimensional, it knew only one way how to break the opponents (with possession, shortpassing game and mostly through the middle).
If it worked, awesome.
But if didn't, Pep didn't have a plan B and he would just repeat the same action over and over like an idiot in hope that he will eventually magically break the bus through the crowded middle from the 1000th attempt.
Also, after 3-4-5 years, virtually any semi-decent team figured out how to park two Boeings around their box and we struggled against anyone.

So, it is questionable whether we have faced tougher opponent's back then, as some said, or our system was way too one dimensional and too easy to neutralize after 2-3 years of success.

On the other hand, Lucho's team (and Rijkaard's Barca did the same) will sometimes "give" you possession so that you will open up (you can't park the Boeing infront of your box if you HAVE the ball).
And then, when we take the ball, without Xavi's/Busi's slowing down like in the past, we now play deadly MSN counterattacks.

So, imo, saying how Pep's team was better in breaking buses is irrelevant.
That is only one aspect of the game.
It is the same as saying that Chelsea scores more goals from corners than Barca.
Who cares? That is only aspect of the game.
Barca has more different weapons today than Chelsea.
And also, Lucho's Barca has more different weapons to break the opponents (not only because of MSN quality, but because of more versatile tactics) than Pep's Barca.

So, breaking the opponent's bus is the same virtue as having more long-ranged goals scored, more goals from corners, more goals after crosses etc.
Irrelevant since it is only one aspect of the game.
And especially since Pep "asked" our opponents to play that way...

Maybe Pep's Barca did only have Plan A. But what's the disadvantage if Pep's Plan A is exponentially better than any 'plan' in Lucho's Barca?
 
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Flavia

Guest
Maybe Pep's Barca did only have Plan A. But what's the disadvantage if Pep's Plan A is exponentially better than any 'plan' in Lucho's Barca?

Back in 2011. Pep's plan A got found out later, by parked buses. Every system gets found out eventually. The team was playing really well from January to June, no wonder another treble was won.
 

BBZ8800

Senior Member
Maybe Pep's Barca did only have Plan A. But what's the disadvantage if Pep's Plan A is exponentially better than any 'plan' in Lucho's Barca?

As Flavia said:
= Pep's plan A was awesome at some point, and it was the best Plan A probably ever in the history, this is why it worked so good in early years
-- but, even when it worked perfectly, Pep had only Plan A
-- his planning of the match was like this:
1. play our usual way
= if we score, repeat the same
= if we don't score, repeat the same and hope that we will score eventually
(If we don't score, it doesn't matter, again go back and repeat the same.
If we don't score, it doesn't matter, again go back and repeat the same.
If we don't score, it doesn't matter, again go back and repeat the same.
If we don't score, it doesn't matter, again go back and repeat the same.)
Well, you get the point...

We had two problems:
1. when we couldn't score against Chelsea and Inter, we didn't have any other ideas
2. when everyone started to play the same as Mourinho's team, we had problems against everyone
-- Pep's and Tito's answer was: just play the same way over and over and hope that you will eventually break the bus

But with each Month passing by, we were weaker and weaker (not because our team was weaker) but because more and more teams figured out the way how to neutralize that (once unbeatable) one-dimensional system.

A lot of people think that if Pep would be back, he would still stick to the same system from 2009 or 2011.
And we would experience the same problems, multiplied a couple of times.
 

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