Luis Enrique

gasgas

Senior Member
Im getting sick of the pitchforks out for him every time we lose. Pique and Alba go down through injury, our defense suffers and all of the sudden, Lucho is shit.

Iniesta gets injured, Lucho tries to find the replacement and the midfield starts to struggle, now all of the sudden Lucho is shit.

It's like we have to be über Pep-era, 5-0 golazofests or its the worst this teams been in years and Lucho is an imposter. Like, we aren't the only elite team and everyone automatically bows down before us. It's absurd really.

They were arguably full strength while we have some key injuries. We'd smash them even worse if they didn't have KDB and Otamendi/Stones.

Also, totally different game if Gomes' chance doesn't go off the crossbar. Suarez, Busi, Bob underperforming. It's just a bad spell and it's a good time to have one rather than later on. Last season, without Messi we looked unstoppable. Suarez and Neymar were scoring for fun, we got overconfident and complacent and we slipped.

1st season, we had an unconvincing start and looked like on the verge of utter failure and then we go unbeaten and sweep every title.

Still a lot of season left and honestly this loss could help us down the line this season so people need to get a fucking grip and stop this bullshit every time we don't get a result.

Besides, for me Lucho stays till Xavi is ready as long as we keep La Liga. That simple.
Lol
Our defence suffered with Pique and Alba

Havent you watched any of our games this season?

Our midfield had been stale prior to this game.

At the CN City were dominating us before the red card

City too hit the post with kdb, gundogan

Nobody is saying we won't win a title but inthe first season we could see lucho trying to find a system and he did

Third season, no excuse
He should be clear on how the team should play
 

mssarm

Member
Lol
Our defence suffered with Pique and Alba

Havent you watched any of our games this season?

Our midfield had been stale prior to this game.

At the CN City were dominating us before the red card

City too hit the post with kdb, gundogan

Nobody is saying we won't win a title but inthe first season we could see lucho trying to find a system and he did

Third season, no excuse
He should be clear on how the team should play

and City was utter shit previous 3 weeks.. and that proves what? And they were not dominating us in 1st leg before the red card, if we are not moping the floors with the opponent it doesn't means they are dominating us. This meltdown is simply ridiculous. Where's this "3rd season no excuse" coming from, who made that call. The last season for Pep was the worst, what that proves. You want to talk about changing the coach, wait until we finish the season. Lot of fans made predictions in this forum in Lucho's first year and when we won everything they all magically disappeared or deleted their posts.
 

Gaudi

Senior Member
Two things need to be sorted out:
we tend to lose control after opposition goal, it happened many time now. We are champions team that won everything, shouldn't lose our heads this easy. We played a good first half, we looked better than them, like we'll score againg and then falling appart.
Second, and most important, thing is defence. But like some here I don't believe our problem is last 4, even though we of course suffer with injuries. But our defending as a team is bad. I thought Lucho had a plan in first season. In my opinion he wanted us to defend slightly deeper than with Pep and press on our half. Not a bad idea, we are compact, not so tiring and also leaves room for counter. But now we neither high press neither defend deeper. We have a high defensive line, our front 3 stands up high with Suarez trying some "suicide" pressing against 3 players, Ney and Messi standing, then our mid of course gets bypassed easily as we go 4+2 full backs against our 3 mids and then our last 4 needs to save the day. Every attack for them is a counter with players runnig in speed towards them, even if it wasn't counter but positional attack. It's impossible not to concede that way...and I'm affraid what teams that pack a punch can do.
No need for Messi to run much more, neither Ney or Suarez but we are either going back to high TEAM pressing or drop back. In that case Suarez and Ney must come to midfield line and form a line with 3 mids with Messi floating and lurking for a ball withoout too much commitment, then we can form 2 walls with defense that will be much harder to pass.
 

gasgas

Senior Member
and City was utter shit previous 3 weeks.. and that proves what? And they were not dominating us in 1st leg before the red card, if we are not moping the floors with the opponent it doesn't means they are dominating us. This meltdown is simply ridiculous. Where's this "3rd season no excuse" coming from, who made that call. The last season for Pep was the worst, what that proves. You want to talk about changing the coach, wait until we finish the season. Lot of fans made predictions in this forum in Lucho's first year and when we won everything they all magically disappeared or deleted their posts.
Prior to the red card, city had the most and best
chances

And if you read carefully I talked about him being his third season he has no excuse for not having a plan.


Even in his worst season.
Pep had a plan
 

Barcilliant

Senior Member
We need to play on the counter imo.

We simply don't have the players to control the midfield. Xavi is gone and Iniesta is fading.

Gomes, Rakitic & Mascherano/ Roberto iñ midfield. Defend deeper and hit on the break.

Keep Messi behind Neymar and Suarez. He can provide the creativity because noone barring Arda and Iniesta has any creativity.

All of these purists need to wake up and smell the coffee. We are not Cruyff Barca or Pep's Barca.

This is Luchos team.
 

gasgas

Senior Member
Yeah counterattcacks

Pep counterattacked us perfectly yesterday

We can't play possession anymore. Why insist? :rolleyes:
 

Raketa10

Senior Member
I have said that 100 times but I will say it again. It's not our defense, it's not our attack its CLEAR MIDFIELD problem. Defense is suffering because of that and defense has to much of ball possesion because midfield is basically doing nothing and the reason for that apart from players bad form is Lucho and his tactics.

Barcelona was always special because of midfield even before Xavi-Iniesta duo we had Deco-Ronaldinho and before that Laudrup-Guardiola etc. My point is that apart from having great attack we had midfield which always controlled the game. This midfield today is playing everything except controlled game and that is the main reason we are suffering!

And saying that I blame Lucho and his tactics for 80% of the problem an 20% on terrible player selection. We have huge amount of very slow players who are playing only in one direction (Gomes, Arda, Rafinha, Denis). All of this players are only good in attack, they are not fast and they do not have a habit of finding space nor do they do a bit of playmaking like Xavi or Deco did.

If you want to play counter attacking football than in the defending phase players have to return beyond the ball fast and we are NOT doing that. If you go for a high pressing than again midfielders have to be solid in defending and these new ones ARE NOT! If you play high possession game than midfield has to move quickly trying to find space all of the time and we are not doing that either. So what the hell are we doing than?!?!?
 
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Gaudi

Senior Member
[MENTION=20770]Raketa10[/MENTION], I agree but I think i does start from attack. Look, only idiots this day can compare CR and Messi but I remember in big games CR defending deep. Atletico as well, but we expect that. Watch again yesterdays match, Kun, De Bruyne, Sterling all playing in defence. Messi can be carried because he is magical and smart as well, he can float and look for mistake when defending, but you can't expect 3 mids (even though I agree with your statment that they are either one dimensonal or slow) to defend against at least 6 opponents and their defence playing with ball as well. There is simply to much space. Look, even against weak team such as Granada many said: these counters and this much space City will use...and it happened. Real will use it too.
Lucho needs to deal with this tactically because we defended well with Andres-Busi-Raketa midfield and neither is fast as well.
 

Raketa10

Senior Member
[MENTION=20770]Raketa10[/MENTION], I agree but I think i does start from attack. Look, only idiots this day can compare CR and Messi but I remember in big games CR defending deep. Atletico as well, but we expect that. Watch again yesterdays match, Kun, De Bruyne, Sterling all playing in defence. Messi can be carried because he is magical and smart as well, he can float and look for mistake when defending, but you can't expect 3 mids (even though I agree with your statment that they are either one dimensonal or slow) to defend against at least 6 opponents and their defence playing with ball as well. There is simply to much space. Look, even against weak team such as Granada many said: these counters and this much space City will use...and it happened. Real will use it too.
Lucho needs to deal with this tactically because we defended well with Andres-Busi-Raketa midfield and neither is fast as well.

I agree with you but remember that Iniesta, Busi and Raki have very high football IQ and they do much better on game control part than any of the new ones so as consequence they need to defend less than guys who can not control the ball possession.

I don't even know if those 3 (Arda, Denis and Rafinha) are midfielders at all or are they wingers?!?! For me Gomes has biggest potential of the new ones and Sergi Roberto is also better solution for our midfield than any of those three but than again we have what we have. All of those 3 (Denis, Arda, Rafinha) were Lucho's choice and it's his fault if they do not function at all.

His only tactics for months now is "pass the ball to MSN and expect miracle" and that should not be the description of his job.
 

Gaudi

Senior Member
I agree with you but remember that Iniesta, Busi and Raki have very high football IQ and they do much better on game control part than any of the new ones so as consequence they need to defend less than guys who can not control the ball possession.

I don't even know if those 3 (Arda, Denis and Rafinha) are midfielders at all or are they wingers?!?! For me Gomes has biggest potential of the new ones and Sergi Roberto is also better solution for our midfield than any of those three but than again we have what we have. All of those 3 (Denis, Arda, Rafinha) were Lucho's choice and it's his fault if they do not function at all.

His only tactics for months now is "pass the ball to MSN and expect miracle" and that should not be the description of his job.

Again i agree, especially with last sentence, Lucho must do better if he is to coach Barca.

I think we should return to defending on our half, something like this:

FB...CD...CD...FB

...........Busi...

Suarez..Rakitić..Iniesta...Neymar

........Messi.....
----------------------

Messi can be meters right or left or forward, but at least we would have 2 walls 1 corrector in Busi and tight lines. Ney and suarez don't need to follow FB al the way, they don't need to "kill themself" defensively, but they at least need to throw their boddies to the first line of defence.

Now we have:

....FB....CB...CB...FB



............Busi...

......Raketa...Iniesta.....
----------------------


Messi...........................Ney



........suarez pressing GK

Of course our mid can't hold!
 

FC B

Senior Member
I will support Lucho for this season and see how things go once the competitions are wrapped up.

I think November is going to be hell for him though based on the fixtures and how poorly we are playing.

Hope he can get a efficient system going for the second half of the season like he did in 2014/2015.

This is our only hope from Lucho atm...
 

te amo barca

Blaugrana al vent
I think the mentality is the problem. Lucho and his players think that they are still the best, when in reality, in 2016 we have been worse than Atleti, Madrid and Bayern, maybe Juventus as well.
 

Raketa10

Senior Member
Again i agree, especially with last sentence, Lucho must do better if he is to coach Barca.

I think we should return to defending on our half, something like this:

FB...CD...CD...FB

...........Busi...

Suarez..Rakitić..Iniesta...Neymar

........Messi.....
----------------------

Messi can be meters right or left or forward, but at least we would have 2 walls 1 corrector in Busi and tight lines. Ney and suarez don't need to follow FB al the way, they don't need to "kill themself" defensively, but they at least need to throw their boddies to the first line of defence.

Now we have:

....FB....CB...CB...FB



............Busi...

......Raketa...Iniesta.....
----------------------


Messi...........................Ney



........suarez pressing GK

Of course our mid can't hold!

Agree with you. This problem is even worse with Gomes, Denis, Rafinha or Arda in the team.

We should also work on our game control since when we the have ball in our possession we do not have to defend so actively, this was our "defending mechanism" for years and it worked perfectly. You can not say that Xavi was a defense master but he was controlling game like a KING. Back than we would have 70% of time ball in our possession and when we lost it we would press high immediately to get it back. In this way yo do not have to defend like we do nowadays. This is not our way, this is Real way and we can not play like that, we are not build like that. That said when you press you can not pres if our first three players in attack are doing nothing at all.

If Messi is released from that duty ok but Ney and Suarez simply can not be. They have to contribute.
 
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serghei

Senior Member
We can't control games like we used to and we can't press like we used to. We need to accept that, and do what every team does, that is work hard off the ball to close teams down. We need to improve our off the ball game, even if it means MSN need to stay less advanced and need to actually get involved in helping in defence.

Midfield is good in our team, it's just that it's playing against teams that bring more men in that zone, so it's impossible to control it when you are purely outnumbered. Teams crowd the midfield against us, and that gives them numerical advantage. So everytime we misplace a pass we're left in 3 vs 5 scenarios, because our tactic in possession is not about forming superiority in tight spaces, but exactly the opposite, stretching the play positionally, by having players at long distances between them. Look at this image:

barcacity.jpg


It's actually a 2 vs 5!!! here. Unacceptable. If we plan to play a long team in possession, stretched all over the field, then the pass has to be perfect. What's Busi supposed to do here, he's surrounded by City players FFS!

This style can work. We can move the ball well in a formation that consists of players being farther apart from each other in terms of distance. But if the pass is not good, then that extra distance between our players will kill us, especially when we play against teams that have a different approach and bring more men where the ball is. We have a positional play based on the individual quality of the players now. It's fine, but on an individual level we have to be strong.

The way we play right now, it's a 50-50 game. We can get to teams and score on the counter like we did and could've done more vs City in the first half, or we can make mistakes and concede goals.
 
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snowy

Well-known member
...

I think we should return to defending on our half, something like this:

FB...CD...CD...FB

...........Busi...

Suarez..Rakitić..Iniesta...Neymar

........Messi.....
----------------------

Messi can be meters right or left or forward, but at least we would have 2 walls 1 corrector in Busi and tight lines. Ney and suarez don't need to follow FB al the way, they don't need to "kill themself" defensively, but they at least need to throw their boddies to the first line of defence.

With all our current injuries, the idea of 2 walls + 1 corrector would be a sound solution. Not sure Busi is up to the task though. Only 2 players left standing with ball control skills, vision, coolness under pressure, defensive skills and aptitude for key passes are Ney and Messi. Thinking out of the box, they could temporarily fill in our ailing midfield, bring back some liaison to our tactics.


.........FB..........CB.........CB...........FB

...........................Raki.............

.........Messi..........................Neymar.......


Rafi or Gomes........................Arda or D. Suarez


........................El Vampiro.............................

This formation could take some serious bite out of the position and provide the traction we need till Iniesta, Busquet, Alba recover. :wheelchair:
 

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