Bielsa
Luis Enrique
- Thread starter Barcaman
- Start date
I looked at that page 11tegen11, where you can see position and passing network from many games. I looked at Arsenal, Bayern, City, Liverpol, even Real Madrid and Atletico. All of them have one thing in common - compactness. Vertical and horizontal compactness.
Now, I am not a football expert, but in many years watching it and playing it, I`ve learned a thing or two. Probably the most crucial part of modern football is staying compact, confining your opponent to a smaller space, where there are less options to pass the ball, because there are more players in a smaller space. Completely logical and fundamental principle, that our coach currently doesn`t use. Is it his fault or the fault of players not listening to his ideas, I`m not sure.
The first problem is that Suarez is pressing like crazy and the rest of the team is not backing him up, especially Messi. So you lose compactness from the start, because even a mediocre team overrides your pressing with a few passes and takes out of the game 3 or 4 players.
Next phase is attacking our midfield line, which is ridiculously stretched out and can`t absorb the attack. Even if you had three Mascheranos you can`t defend that much space. So they cut through the midfield at ease and attack our backline. Every game we see the same things. Opponents getting to our goal without a problem.
I understand that Enrique wants to nullify Messi`s not defending with Rakitic on the wing, but I don`t understand how can he be so blind and does not see that it is simply too much space to cover. That`s probably why Rakitic is usually half dead in the last 20 minutes of the game. Yeah, maybe he doesn`t run that much more from the rest of the team, but it`s much more important to see at what speed are those km. You can clearly see him running like crazy half the time.
Also, you can see from time to time Suarez to drop back to right wing in defensive phase. But he can`t do that every time and then it is up to Rakitic to go wide and leave the hole in centre midfield. It`s simply too unbalanced.
I don`t know, I`m not a mastermind tactician, but we can all see Messi playing in the centre again. Why stick to that fucking 4-3-3 then? Why not try Rafinha on the right wing and Messi as a free role with two holding midfielders behind him. IMO, it would be much more balanced. I`m not saying that`s the only option, but why not try something else, when this is clearly not working.
Another problem that you can clearly see from our passing and position network is that Enrique sees Busquets as some type of central playmaker and instructs LCM and RCM to go wide, which is a disaster. You can`t hold the ball in midfield, if your midfielders don`t offer themselves for the ball and pass it to each other.
Every team that I looked at that page had many passes between their central midfielders and they were much closer to each other. When they are closer together, they can work as a unit in defensive, transition and attacking phase. Our tactics at the moment are that lcm plays as a unit with left flank and rcm with right flank, leaving Busquets alone and exposed. Clearly not a good idea.
Another problem with that setup is that Busquets is not a playmaker and he will never be. He is simply not mobile nor creative enough to be a true playmaker. But, I think that even if it was Modric in that position, he would play bad.
I wrote a book here.
Hope someone reads it. 
I really hope Lucho will change something for the clasico game. Although I don`t expect it.
Now, I am not a football expert, but in many years watching it and playing it, I`ve learned a thing or two. Probably the most crucial part of modern football is staying compact, confining your opponent to a smaller space, where there are less options to pass the ball, because there are more players in a smaller space. Completely logical and fundamental principle, that our coach currently doesn`t use. Is it his fault or the fault of players not listening to his ideas, I`m not sure.
The first problem is that Suarez is pressing like crazy and the rest of the team is not backing him up, especially Messi. So you lose compactness from the start, because even a mediocre team overrides your pressing with a few passes and takes out of the game 3 or 4 players.
Next phase is attacking our midfield line, which is ridiculously stretched out and can`t absorb the attack. Even if you had three Mascheranos you can`t defend that much space. So they cut through the midfield at ease and attack our backline. Every game we see the same things. Opponents getting to our goal without a problem.
I understand that Enrique wants to nullify Messi`s not defending with Rakitic on the wing, but I don`t understand how can he be so blind and does not see that it is simply too much space to cover. That`s probably why Rakitic is usually half dead in the last 20 minutes of the game. Yeah, maybe he doesn`t run that much more from the rest of the team, but it`s much more important to see at what speed are those km. You can clearly see him running like crazy half the time.
Also, you can see from time to time Suarez to drop back to right wing in defensive phase. But he can`t do that every time and then it is up to Rakitic to go wide and leave the hole in centre midfield. It`s simply too unbalanced.
I don`t know, I`m not a mastermind tactician, but we can all see Messi playing in the centre again. Why stick to that fucking 4-3-3 then? Why not try Rafinha on the right wing and Messi as a free role with two holding midfielders behind him. IMO, it would be much more balanced. I`m not saying that`s the only option, but why not try something else, when this is clearly not working.
Another problem that you can clearly see from our passing and position network is that Enrique sees Busquets as some type of central playmaker and instructs LCM and RCM to go wide, which is a disaster. You can`t hold the ball in midfield, if your midfielders don`t offer themselves for the ball and pass it to each other.
Every team that I looked at that page had many passes between their central midfielders and they were much closer to each other. When they are closer together, they can work as a unit in defensive, transition and attacking phase. Our tactics at the moment are that lcm plays as a unit with left flank and rcm with right flank, leaving Busquets alone and exposed. Clearly not a good idea.
Another problem with that setup is that Busquets is not a playmaker and he will never be. He is simply not mobile nor creative enough to be a true playmaker. But, I think that even if it was Modric in that position, he would play bad.
I wrote a book here.
Hope someone reads it. I really hope Lucho will change something for the clasico game. Although I don`t expect it.
Last edited:
I looked at that page 11tegen11, where you can see position and passing network from many games. I looked at Arsenal, Bayern, City, Liverpol, even Real Madrid and Atletico. All of them have one thing in common - compactness. Vertical and horizontal compactness.
Now, I am not a football expert, but in many years watching it and playing it, I`ve learned a thing or two. Probably the most crucial part of modern football is staying compact, confining your opponent to a smaller space, where there are less options to pass the ball, because there are more players in a smaller space. Completely logical and fundamental principle, that our coach currently doesn`t use. Is it his fault or the fault of players not listening to his ideas, I`m not sure.
The first problem is that Suarez is pressing like crazy and the rest of the team is not backing him up, especially Messi. So you lose compactness from the start, because even a mediocre team overrides your pressing with a few passes and takes out of the game 3 or 4 players.
Next phase is attacking our midfield line, which is ridiculously stretched out and can`t absorb the attack. Even if you had three Mascheranos you can`t defend that much space. So they cut through the midfield at ease and attack our backline. Every game we see the same things. Opponents getting to our goal without a problem.
I understand that Enrique wants to nullify Messi`s not defending with Rakitic on the wing, but I don`t understand how can he be so blind and does not see that it is simply too much space to cover. That`s probably why Rakitic is usually half dead in the last 20 minutes of the game. Yeah, maybe he doesn`t run that much more from the rest of the team, but it`s much more important to see at what speed are those km. You can clearly see him running like crazy half the time.
Also, you can see from time to time Suarez to drop back to right wing in defensive phase. But he can`t do that every time and then it is up to Rakitic to go wide and leave the hole in centre midfield. It`s simply too unbalanced.
I don`t know, I`m not a mastermind tactician, but we can all see Messi playing in the centre again. Why stick to that fucking 4-3-3 then? Why not try Rafinha on the right wing and Messi as a free role with two holding midfielders behind him. IMO, it would be much more balanced. I`m not saying that`s the only option, but why not try something else, when this is clearly not working.
Another problem that you can clearly see from our passing and position network is that Enrique sees Busquets as some type of central playmaker and instructs LCM and RCM to go wide, which is a disaster. You can`t hold the ball in midfield, if your midfielders don`t offer themselves for the ball and pass it to each other.
Every team that I looked at that page had many passes between their central midfielders and they were much closer to each other. When they are closer together, they can work as a unit in defensive, transition and attacking phase. Our tactics at the moment are that lcm plays as a unit with left flank and rcm with right flank, leaving Busquets alone and exposed. Clearly not a good idea.
Another problem with that setup is that Busquets is not a playmaker and he will never be. He is simply not mobile nor creative enough to be a true playmaker. But, I think that even if it was Modric in that position, he would play bad.
I wrote a book here.
I really hope Lucho will change something for the clasico game. Although I don`t expect it.
It's a good book. I read it
I hate to burst your bubble but truth is, lucho doesn't see that.
This system we have now, is the same one as the one we had earlier in the treble season, only now with worse players/ tired and unmotivated players
Luftstalag14
Culé de Celestial Empire
I will add another problem of ours to the wonderful book kilian wrote: We are too damn slow and lethargic in our general play.
Icarium
Lifestealer
Our midfield is weak af. That is the main reason. No pressure. It is so open, there is no engine. With the new players the midfield did not evolve in the right direction. Players dont complement each other. Busi awful doesnt help either. Iniesta has to be back and Busi needs to regain form. Then we will perform better than ever.
BBZ8800
Senior Member
We weren't doing that in a recent, Messi-era history.
Because:
1. we had Messi
2. and when you have Messi, you are usually 50% overpowered and you will have trophies and play well in majority of seasons.
But before our new era (Rijkaard, Pep, Tito&Tata, Lucho), we were firing coaches way more easily.
For example, after Van Gaal's first 3 years here, we had:
-- in the summer of 2000', we fired Van Gaal (after his 3 years here) and appointed Serra Ferrer
2000/01 Lorenzo Serra Ferrer
-- but the team was very poor (even though we had Rivaldo and some awesome players), and he was fired after 31 rounds (Osasuna 1:3 defeat), while we were 5th on a table (out of a CL spots)
-- we hired a new coach, another former legend, Carlex Rexach
His duty was to qualify to top4 places and get us into a Champions league.
In the last 7 rounds, we played better and in the last round at home vs Valencia (CL finalists in 2000, they were as strong as Atletico Madrid today), we needed a win at home to secure a Champions league spot (4th place). It was a direct battle between us and Valencia for the 4th place. We needed a win, they needed a draw.
And then this match happened:
Rexach was given another chance in a 2001/02 season, but we ended 4th in La Liga and lost to winners Real Madrid in a CL's semis.
Rexach was fired in a summer of 2002, and Van Gaal was appointed again for a season 2002/03, and he signed a new 3 years contract, but he was fired after only 19 rounds of that season (his 2nd spell at Barca).
We were 12th on the table after 19 rounds, and De La Cruz was a new coach until we will find a new coach.
We dropped to a 15th place with De La Cruz and finally we hired Radomir Antic (a former Atletico Madrid's coach).
So, Antic was our 3rd coach in that season...
We were 15th on a table in that moment (23 points from 20 matches. Six wins, five draws, and nine losses).
Antic's only duty was to NOT get relegated, lol.
Antic wanted some fresh blood, and he loaned Argentine full back Sorin right away, plus promoting Victor Valdes right away, promoting young Iniesta and moving Xavi from Cdm to Cm.
Barca finished 6th under Antic and qualified for Uefa Cup, and we lost against Juve in quarters of a CL.
After that, in a summer of 2003, we sacked Antic (after only 3-4 Months in charge) and we (new president Laporta) hired Rijkaard, who started a new era, with firing almost the whole squad, and keeping only younger domestic players like Xavi, Iniesta, Puyol, Valdes, Motta etc and buying a completely new team (Ronnie, Etoo, Deco, Marquez, Gio, Belletti, Edmilson, Larsson, Guily).
This new generation of players managed to win 2 La Ligas (2005 and 2006) after lots of years of waiting (since 1999) and a CL in 2006.
After that, Pep continued with those core players (Messi, Xavi, Iniesta, Puyol, Valdes plus promoted some new guys).
More or less, we were a stable club ONLY from 2004 till today.
We were blessed with Messi, Xavi, Iniesta, Puyol, Busi, Valdes. We had results, we had players, and we had coaches who had an easier job with that once-in-a-lifetime La Masia team.
I wanted to say: people say sometimes that we are not a club who is sacking coaches, and how we are not Real Madrid.
But again, that principle worked only since 2004 till today, when we had Messi and the best La Masia team ever.
With that team almost gone, and Messi getting older, we will become mortals again.
Imo, that means 10s of expensive hit and miss transfers each new summer and lots of hit and miss appointments of random coaches.
If Lucho and a team will continue to sink deeper and deeper each new week (which I personally think that will happen), then: why not? Why not fire a coach in the middle of a season?
** I am reading around internet that Lucho had a huge fight with players during a half time in San Sebastian.
He told to players that they won't win against any opponent ever again if they will play as bad as they are playing currently.
He had an one hour talk again with players on Monday.
Plus, Messi didn't train (exactly the same as after Anoeta 2 years ago).
So, it could all be just a coincidence and a paper talk, or something is happening, except that we can't rise back 2 times like Phoenix, like in 2014/15.
If we'll lose against Madrid this weekend, which is imo very likely, then more or less: everything is possible:
-- huge fights
-- Lucho losing the locker room
-- Messi going riot
-- players going riot
-- players fighting with eachother
-- horrible displays in upcoming weeks etc
I have said before, even if we'll sack a coach, we will need way more changes than just sacking a coach.
As said above: when Antic improved our team (that is a moment when our team started to be a big team again. Antic introduced some fresh spark and hope. Rijkaard continued it and Pep turned us into GOATs), he introduced some fresh blood and promoted youngsters because our old players were dead on a motivational level.
That improved our team, and Rijkaard sold 90% of a remaining team and built a new team which will be a core for the next 10 years (Valdes, Xavi, Iniesta, Puyol, Messi).
When Rijkaard's foreign oldies lost motivation (Ronnie, Deco, Larsson, Guily, Edmilson, Gio, Belletti etc), Pep sold all those players and bought new foreigners for his, new cycle.
Those foreigners and oldies were again semi-dead during Tito and Tata, and Lucho brought a life in our team with NEW foreigners in Neymar, Suarez, Rakitic when he came.
But now again, both foreigners and domestic players have totally lost energy and motivation, and as 100s of times in our past, a moment will come when we'll need to sell half of our current team, turn the page, keep only some core players, some domestic youngsters and start a new era with new players and a new coach.
(I know that I am "boring" with this part about motivation, but I just don't see a way for a current team to rise back ever again with the current set of players).
Last edited:
Raketa10
Senior Member
I am also afraid if we do not win el clasico, and that might happen, Lucho will lose locker room completely and our board will be forced to do something. That game is crucial for the rest of the season, if we lose on saturday I am afraid we will collapse.
Last edited:
F
FlaFCB
Guest
It's hard to press when 2 midfielders are up there with the forwards, and the dm is alone. Team is not compact, so they can't press.
serghei
Senior Member
Yea, personally, I think we need to play at least 15-20m more advanced with our defensive line. No matter what. If we don't find a way to provide a passing option to the player with the ball faster we will suffer.
Last edited:
DRUNKY
New member
Could he maybe said that in a sarcastic/provocative context? That would make my day if true.
Barcilliant
Senior Member
LoL@ Bielsa. He fell out spectacularly with lesser teams and players. Management in big teams is also about handling big egos. Bielsa has the biggest ego ...would be a disaster.
Luftstalag14
Culé de Celestial Empire
Yeah no Bielsa, he is going to drive us into the ditch.
Home of Barca Fans
