DonAK
President of FC Barcelona
Also 4 goals in his last 19 CL appearances.
Our #9.
Best/Top 3 striker in the World no doubt.
And that's not even taking into account his overall play which is just getting worse every season.
Luis Suárez
- Thread starter jj_101
- Start date
Also 4 goals in his last 19 CL appearances.
Our #9.
Best/Top 3 striker in the World no doubt.
And that's not even taking into account his overall play which is just getting worse every season.
soul24rage
Senior Member
I bet Coutinho will score more goals than Suarez in the CL this season
Alik
Moderator
Only from outside the box.
clemente
New member
Of course not, that doesn't even make sense.
BBZ8800
Senior Member
More cherry-picking depressive stats from our team:
Messi's away goals in quarters, semis and finals in the last 7 CL years.
2012:
1/4: Milan 0:0, --
1/2: Chelsea 0:1, --
2013:
1/4: Psg 2:2, 1 goal (Messi, Xavi)
1/2: Bayern 0:4, --
2014:
1/4: Atletico 0:1, --
2015:
1/4: Psg 3:1, -- (Neymar, Suarez, Suarez)
1/2: Bayern 2:3, -- (Neymar, Neymar)
Final: Juventus 3:1, -- (Rakitic, Suarez, Neymar)
2016:
1/4: Atletico 0:2, --
2017:
1/4: Juventus 0:3, --
2018:
1/4: Roma 0:3, --
In the last 5 seasons in quarters, semis and finals, out of 13 matches, Messi didn't score at 12 out 13 matches.
He scored only against Bayern at home in semis 2015.
If we are looking only at away matches in quarters, semis and finals:
Roma 18', Juve 17', Atletico 16', Juve 15', Bayern 15', Psg 15', Atletico 2014', Psg 2013' (1 goal), Chelsea 2012', Milan 2012'.
On away matches in quarters, semis and finals, Messi hasn't scored since 2013' Psg at quarters.
It will be 6 full years by the quarters in 2019' and 7 away matches in a row for now.
Or: in the last 7 years, after 2011', Messi scored in only 1 out of last 10 quarters, semis and finals in AWAY matches.
I am not only defending Suarez.
I am saying:
1. if Suarez doesn't score
2. if Messi doesn't score
3. if Suarez doesn't run, move, fight
4. if Messi doesn't run, move, fight
= we won't get past 1/8 or 1/4 again in a CL.
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DonAK
President of FC Barcelona
Honestly I shouldn't even bother. Been here before.
If you were smart enough you would realize I was pointing out Suarez' impact in all CL games from the group stages to the point we reached, but when you want to cherry pick stats and paint your own narrative and simply be intellectually dishonest, it gets to a point when such clear details becomes hard to spot.
I'm not going to partake in that so please don't quote or tag me and I won't quote or tag you. Just a small request.
Thanks.
If you were smart enough you would realize I was pointing out Suarez' impact in all CL games from the group stages to the point we reached, but when you want to cherry pick stats and paint your own narrative and simply be intellectually dishonest, it gets to a point when such clear details becomes hard to spot.
I'm not going to partake in that so please don't quote or tag me and I won't quote or tag you. Just a small request.
Thanks.
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BBZ8800
Senior Member
I won't tag you, I'll just reply.
Yes, Messi's stats are cherry picking, but the point stands that Messi scores for fun in La liga, and in a CL in group stages (aka: against Spanish teams whom he knows well, or against weaker CL teams).
When big opponents come, our whole team is usually dead.
People will turn this as always to: we have a poor midfield, so Messi can't do anything.
Well, for years we don't see his magical goals out of nowhere anymore.
I now, we are spoiled, but still...
And since for years, our 2 main goalscorers and Messi and Suarez, if we agree that Suarez is not scoring enough.
And if you add Messi's cherry-picking stats from quarters, semis and finals, we are in problems.
I'll go further and say:
1. if Messi will play awesome and if Suarez will suck=we probably won't win a CL
2. if Suarez will play awesome and if Messi will suck=it surely won't be enough
We will need magic from the whole team.
And the point of my post is that majority of our team was far from magical for years in a CL.
Messi not scoring enough in key matches.
Suarez poor.
Busi poor.
Rakitic not good enough for a lot of fans.
Iniesta was barely running due to age.
Pique often poor.
No RB.
We will either need a way better form from these key players in a CL quarters and semis.
Or we will need some magic from new guys who will step in and bring victories.
They way how both Messi and Suarez (and majority of core players) played in the last couple of biggest CL matches won't be good enough.
So, Suarez alone stepping up, also won't be enough.
Yes, Messi's stats are cherry picking, but the point stands that Messi scores for fun in La liga, and in a CL in group stages (aka: against Spanish teams whom he knows well, or against weaker CL teams).
When big opponents come, our whole team is usually dead.
People will turn this as always to: we have a poor midfield, so Messi can't do anything.
Well, for years we don't see his magical goals out of nowhere anymore.
I now, we are spoiled, but still...
And since for years, our 2 main goalscorers and Messi and Suarez, if we agree that Suarez is not scoring enough.
And if you add Messi's cherry-picking stats from quarters, semis and finals, we are in problems.
I'll go further and say:
1. if Messi will play awesome and if Suarez will suck=we probably won't win a CL
2. if Suarez will play awesome and if Messi will suck=it surely won't be enough
We will need magic from the whole team.
And the point of my post is that majority of our team was far from magical for years in a CL.
Messi not scoring enough in key matches.
Suarez poor.
Busi poor.
Rakitic not good enough for a lot of fans.
Iniesta was barely running due to age.
Pique often poor.
No RB.
We will either need a way better form from these key players in a CL quarters and semis.
Or we will need some magic from new guys who will step in and bring victories.
They way how both Messi and Suarez (and majority of core players) played in the last couple of biggest CL matches won't be good enough.
So, Suarez alone stepping up, also won't be enough.
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RMU ReBorn
New member
How are you gonna convince your future generation that Messi was Motm against Man city away in 2015 without even netting a goal . Comparing Messi and suarez is like apples and oranges . Messi can still contribute without scoring . He set up two goals with his key passes against Bayern away in 2014-15 . Should i explain more about his involvement in all three goals in final ? . Forward to 6-1 win over PSG . Messi playing as a CAM in 3-4-3 . 80%+ passing accuracy whilst PsG was pressing hard and set Suarez for a goal which led to the penalty . These are few facts that you exlcuded while comparing the stats of two players
BBZ8800
Senior Member
[MENTION=20085]RMU ReBorn[/MENTION] my point is that a lot of our players are playing weaker than on their prime.
Suarez, we all agree.
Pique, we all agree.
Busquets, a lot of fans agree.
Messi also.
So, yes, Messi is still awesome.
But he stopped, imo, doing wonders and pulling goals and solo actions out of nowhere in a CL knockout matches.
These are not real numbers, just an example to explain what I aiming for.
Let's say that Messi during Pep:
Xavi and Iniesta would create 10 good actions for him per match.
Messi created 5 key passes for his teammates.
And pulled 3 crazy solo actions, dribbles and shots out of nowhere.
So, let's say that he had 18 actions.
Today, that is my impression:
Teammates are weaker and they are creating let's say only 5 good passes for Messi, instead of 10.
Messi's key passes remained the same, let's say 5 per match.
But his input in terms of goals and crazy solo actions out of nowhere dropped from 3 per match to 0 or 1 per match.
So, imo, instead of saying: our midfield sucks or Suarez is a problem, my opinon is:
1. Our midfield is weaker
2. Suarez is weaker
3. But Messi alone is weaker.
He can still create, but some aspects of his game dropped (physical skills, movement).
And that paired with Suarez, weaker midfield and a team depending too much on Messi is causing problems.
My point: I don't like single scapegoats like: no controller, weak midfield, Valverde, Suarez, Rakitic.
The answer is: a combination of 10 different factors/players.
So, I am not comparing Messi and Suarez.
But: majority of players are to blame and we will need a way higher level from majority of them (not only Suarez) if we want to reach even semis of a CL.
Suarez, we all agree.
Pique, we all agree.
Busquets, a lot of fans agree.
Messi also.
So, yes, Messi is still awesome.
But he stopped, imo, doing wonders and pulling goals and solo actions out of nowhere in a CL knockout matches.
These are not real numbers, just an example to explain what I aiming for.
Let's say that Messi during Pep:
Xavi and Iniesta would create 10 good actions for him per match.
Messi created 5 key passes for his teammates.
And pulled 3 crazy solo actions, dribbles and shots out of nowhere.
So, let's say that he had 18 actions.
Today, that is my impression:
Teammates are weaker and they are creating let's say only 5 good passes for Messi, instead of 10.
Messi's key passes remained the same, let's say 5 per match.
But his input in terms of goals and crazy solo actions out of nowhere dropped from 3 per match to 0 or 1 per match.
So, imo, instead of saying: our midfield sucks or Suarez is a problem, my opinon is:
1. Our midfield is weaker
2. Suarez is weaker
3. But Messi alone is weaker.
He can still create, but some aspects of his game dropped (physical skills, movement).
And that paired with Suarez, weaker midfield and a team depending too much on Messi is causing problems.
My point: I don't like single scapegoats like: no controller, weak midfield, Valverde, Suarez, Rakitic.
The answer is: a combination of 10 different factors/players.
So, I am not comparing Messi and Suarez.
But: majority of players are to blame and we will need a way higher level from majority of them (not only Suarez) if we want to reach even semis of a CL.
You keep repeating this, yet your reasoning is so weak, that you need to rely on the "less solo goals" notion, while ignoring his progress in other areas.
Weaker team creates less chances/space for him and executes less chances he produces. No need to complicate, it is rather simple.
I dread the day, he will actualy declined. The moaning level on this forum will be unbearable.
BarcaMessi
Banned
Messi became better in some areas as he aged.
He is definitely slower and less physical than his younger days. His dribbling not as successful as it used to be.
His biggest weakness and Barca's biggest problem is pet Suarez.
He is definitely slower and less physical than his younger days. His dribbling not as successful as it used to be.
His biggest weakness and Barca's biggest problem is pet Suarez.
Does that mean ignoring Dembele when he's wide open just so Luisito can score, like it happened last match? : | Luisito should help himself, by moving into goal scoring positions and finishing the chances he gets.
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