Maradona37
Well-known member
He looks like Bruno Fernandes, if Fernandes wasn't ugly and was indeed quite handsome.
Manchester United
- Thread starter Jenks
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Iniesta Ultra
Senior Member
do you have to put the gay stuff in half your posts for real
Maradona37
Well-known member
True, I will stop. Cheers.
Maradona37
Well-known member
So being serious again, how do you guys see Amorim lining up? He seems wedded to 343/3421, but is there any chance he goes four at the back?
Onana's long kicking seems to have improved and he doesn't see as much of a clown these days. Every chance he will regress again, but if he can maintain the level he's started the season at I don't see him as a real issue. I am sure his short and medium kicking is something that Amorim will want to exploit.
With Yoro still out I don't think they have enough real CB options to go three at the back. I am expecting he will temporarily play a full-back as one of the wider CBs, eg Dalot as the wider CB on the right. Martinez left and MDL in centre. Though usually the central defender gets more of the ball and does more playmaking, and that doesn't suit MDL.
Apparently he likes inverted wing-backs? I have to be honest, even though I don't rate Garnacho much, I feel playing him as a wing-back would be a waste considering he can get into great positions when more advanced. He's also not a defender, though with three CBs it matters less. I expect Mazraoui, Shaw, Malacia and a few others could be considered for the roles, though I actually think this is an area where he will dip into the transfer market to bolster options - maybe not in January but certainly next summer.
Fernandes I guess would be one of the two attacking midfielders, though I question his ability in tight spaces to play the role. The likes of Marcus Edwards and Pedro Goncalves who Amorim had at Sporting seem much better in tight spaces for those positions than Fernandes does (to me). I do think Diallo is one of United's better players (even if they are going OTT about him in their usual fashion) and think - in their squad - he's one of the better bets for that right sided attacking midfielder. Obviously he would drift wide too and be given some license to roam.
The midfield area is interesting. As I say I don't feel Fernandes and Diallo will do enough good pressing and defensive work in general(unless Amorim can really drill them) so that means there will be a huge onus on Ugarte and Casemiro (or Mainoo) to fill these roles. The former two have looked promising as a caveat in recent weeks, BUT we must add the caveat it has been against Leciester Reserves, Leicester and PAOK where they have tended to do well. The sample size and difficulty has been too small to really judge. One thing is for sure - they will have A LOT of ground to cover. Casemiro seems to have dropped some weight and is looking fit again, and Ugarte is a naturally fit guy. What I would say is they made 15 tackles between them against Leicester - that's a lot and highlights that United are still losing the ball in dangerous positions. Even though RVN was getting results, the general issues with the team are still there, and I don't think there's enough ball carrying or ball progressing ability in that mf two.
Their strikers are still a massive problem as I really do not rate Hojlund or Zirkzee, though they are still young, especially the former. Going for Gyokeres is a big possibility but, again, he represents a risk as well.
So, overall, much work for Amorim to do. However, it will be interesting to see how they set up if it is indeed three at the back. United have played that way here and there but four at the back is by far the general way they play (and many English teams). Can this new system give them a leg up, or will it prove to be a disaster? We will have to wait and see what happens.
Onana's long kicking seems to have improved and he doesn't see as much of a clown these days. Every chance he will regress again, but if he can maintain the level he's started the season at I don't see him as a real issue. I am sure his short and medium kicking is something that Amorim will want to exploit.
With Yoro still out I don't think they have enough real CB options to go three at the back. I am expecting he will temporarily play a full-back as one of the wider CBs, eg Dalot as the wider CB on the right. Martinez left and MDL in centre. Though usually the central defender gets more of the ball and does more playmaking, and that doesn't suit MDL.
Apparently he likes inverted wing-backs? I have to be honest, even though I don't rate Garnacho much, I feel playing him as a wing-back would be a waste considering he can get into great positions when more advanced. He's also not a defender, though with three CBs it matters less. I expect Mazraoui, Shaw, Malacia and a few others could be considered for the roles, though I actually think this is an area where he will dip into the transfer market to bolster options - maybe not in January but certainly next summer.
Fernandes I guess would be one of the two attacking midfielders, though I question his ability in tight spaces to play the role. The likes of Marcus Edwards and Pedro Goncalves who Amorim had at Sporting seem much better in tight spaces for those positions than Fernandes does (to me). I do think Diallo is one of United's better players (even if they are going OTT about him in their usual fashion) and think - in their squad - he's one of the better bets for that right sided attacking midfielder. Obviously he would drift wide too and be given some license to roam.
The midfield area is interesting. As I say I don't feel Fernandes and Diallo will do enough good pressing and defensive work in general(unless Amorim can really drill them) so that means there will be a huge onus on Ugarte and Casemiro (or Mainoo) to fill these roles. The former two have looked promising as a caveat in recent weeks, BUT we must add the caveat it has been against Leciester Reserves, Leicester and PAOK where they have tended to do well. The sample size and difficulty has been too small to really judge. One thing is for sure - they will have A LOT of ground to cover. Casemiro seems to have dropped some weight and is looking fit again, and Ugarte is a naturally fit guy. What I would say is they made 15 tackles between them against Leicester - that's a lot and highlights that United are still losing the ball in dangerous positions. Even though RVN was getting results, the general issues with the team are still there, and I don't think there's enough ball carrying or ball progressing ability in that mf two.
Their strikers are still a massive problem as I really do not rate Hojlund or Zirkzee, though they are still young, especially the former. Going for Gyokeres is a big possibility but, again, he represents a risk as well.
So, overall, much work for Amorim to do. However, it will be interesting to see how they set up if it is indeed three at the back. United have played that way here and there but four at the back is by far the general way they play (and many English teams). Can this new system give them a leg up, or will it prove to be a disaster? We will have to wait and see what happens.
Messi983
Senior Member
I like him but don't care about United so wouldn't mind if he gets sacked soon and comes to Barca in a year or two.
Maradona37
Well-known member
Still not a Flick fan I see, lol.
Messi983
Senior Member
I don't see Amorim going away from his prefered system. Would also be stupid to try and play differently than he wants to and what brought him a success so far.
Without knowing United squad too well (I think I've only watched them once or twice this season so I could be way off with some players) I think when Yoro is back Amorim will probably use something like.
Onana
Yoro - MDL - Lisandro
Dalot - Ugarte - Casemiro/Mainoo - Mazraoui
Bruno - Rashford/Garnacho
Hojlund
Back three is pretty self explanatory. Don't see Amorim having too much faith in "oldies" like Maguire and Evans although Coates was a fixed starter in the middle of his defense before returning home to Uruguay last summer.
At Sporting he played inverted wingbacks on the right. Geny Catamo last year and Geovany Quenda this season are both left-footed. Dalot and Mazraoui are right-footed but have experience playing as LBs. Wouldn't surprise me at all though if he would turn Diallo into a RWB (but that transformation will take time so probably won't start to play him there immediately) as he did with Catamo and Quenda and then rotate Dalot and Mazraoui on the other side.
Other thing is he used Pedro Goncalves as LAM and Trincao as RW but with tendency to move inside a lot with one of Catamo/Quenda overlapping. I think at United he might turn this around and play Rashford/Garnacho on the left and Bruno as RAM in the Pote role.
And on the left last season he used Nuno Santos and also Matheus Reis as more defensive LM (he's really more a CB where he has also played lot of games) but this season so far Catamo (who has lost his spot on the right to Quenda) started season as a starter but lately new signing Maxi Araujo took over the position. They are more offensive than either of starters there last season though Araujo looked solid defensively to me (and probably why Amorim ultimately played him over Catamo after short adaptation period). But that's fine for Primeira, not sure he'll actually play two offensive minded WBs in EPL though.
Not sure how much footedness really matters to Amorim's system but I feel like he prefers on one side to have an inverted wing back who runs/dribbles directly towards the goal on his stronger foot while on the other side he wants to either balance that out defensively or keep a more traditional wing back who will do his work defensively but also send a few good crosses.
And in central midfield last season he used Hjulmand and Morita who are both more destroyers than creators. First option off the bench was Braganca who made a big step forward this season imo and also took away starting spot from Morita. Braganca is better on the ball and more creative than Hjulmand or Morita. So I think Amorim will have one pretty fixed CM/DM (whether that's Mainoo or Ugarte) and then rotate in other spot depending on form and opponents. But longterm (this season) I think Mainoo-Ugarte will probably be his starters.
Upfront I think Hojlund will be his prefered striker and Zirkzee will probably come off the bench often also in the Bruno or Rashford (though Garnacho is there too) roles. Similar to how he used Conrad Harder this season. But obviously he doesn't have Gyokeres (yet) so he could just rotate Hojlund and Zirkzee and see who does better too.
I expect Amorim to experiment and try out different things in first weeks/months (so from that perspective is good for him to come mid-season when season is already considered "lost" - though they are really just 4 points behind 3rd place - so won't be under that big expectations results-wise) but when he found the lineup he liked at Sporting he didn't really rotate that much and let them gel. Ofc that will be different in a physically much more demanding league.
As said above I don't know United squad in details but I do believe they have some players who should fit well into Amorim's formation. There are clearly question marks about others and also overall squad depth. We'll see if they'll sign someone in January but more likely he'll use this season for squad evaluation and then make a clear out and bring "his" players in summer.
So far he has shown he's patient and wants to build long term so probably won't be any rash decisions from his side. No idea what United's owners expectations are though. If they want him to turn a decade plus of wrong doings in that club over in a few months then they've probably hired the wrong manager. Someone like Tuchel would be more likely to bring them immediate success (probably still not what their fan base expects though) but in a year or two he would also go into a war with board like he did in previous clubs. I think Amorim can turn their fortune around if given enough time and support but I doubt he'll get that.
Without knowing United squad too well (I think I've only watched them once or twice this season so I could be way off with some players) I think when Yoro is back Amorim will probably use something like.
Onana
Yoro - MDL - Lisandro
Dalot - Ugarte - Casemiro/Mainoo - Mazraoui
Bruno - Rashford/Garnacho
Hojlund
Back three is pretty self explanatory. Don't see Amorim having too much faith in "oldies" like Maguire and Evans although Coates was a fixed starter in the middle of his defense before returning home to Uruguay last summer.
At Sporting he played inverted wingbacks on the right. Geny Catamo last year and Geovany Quenda this season are both left-footed. Dalot and Mazraoui are right-footed but have experience playing as LBs. Wouldn't surprise me at all though if he would turn Diallo into a RWB (but that transformation will take time so probably won't start to play him there immediately) as he did with Catamo and Quenda and then rotate Dalot and Mazraoui on the other side.
Other thing is he used Pedro Goncalves as LAM and Trincao as RW but with tendency to move inside a lot with one of Catamo/Quenda overlapping. I think at United he might turn this around and play Rashford/Garnacho on the left and Bruno as RAM in the Pote role.
And on the left last season he used Nuno Santos and also Matheus Reis as more defensive LM (he's really more a CB where he has also played lot of games) but this season so far Catamo (who has lost his spot on the right to Quenda) started season as a starter but lately new signing Maxi Araujo took over the position. They are more offensive than either of starters there last season though Araujo looked solid defensively to me (and probably why Amorim ultimately played him over Catamo after short adaptation period). But that's fine for Primeira, not sure he'll actually play two offensive minded WBs in EPL though.
Not sure how much footedness really matters to Amorim's system but I feel like he prefers on one side to have an inverted wing back who runs/dribbles directly towards the goal on his stronger foot while on the other side he wants to either balance that out defensively or keep a more traditional wing back who will do his work defensively but also send a few good crosses.
And in central midfield last season he used Hjulmand and Morita who are both more destroyers than creators. First option off the bench was Braganca who made a big step forward this season imo and also took away starting spot from Morita. Braganca is better on the ball and more creative than Hjulmand or Morita. So I think Amorim will have one pretty fixed CM/DM (whether that's Mainoo or Ugarte) and then rotate in other spot depending on form and opponents. But longterm (this season) I think Mainoo-Ugarte will probably be his starters.
Upfront I think Hojlund will be his prefered striker and Zirkzee will probably come off the bench often also in the Bruno or Rashford (though Garnacho is there too) roles. Similar to how he used Conrad Harder this season. But obviously he doesn't have Gyokeres (yet) so he could just rotate Hojlund and Zirkzee and see who does better too.
I expect Amorim to experiment and try out different things in first weeks/months (so from that perspective is good for him to come mid-season when season is already considered "lost" - though they are really just 4 points behind 3rd place - so won't be under that big expectations results-wise) but when he found the lineup he liked at Sporting he didn't really rotate that much and let them gel. Ofc that will be different in a physically much more demanding league.
As said above I don't know United squad in details but I do believe they have some players who should fit well into Amorim's formation. There are clearly question marks about others and also overall squad depth. We'll see if they'll sign someone in January but more likely he'll use this season for squad evaluation and then make a clear out and bring "his" players in summer.
So far he has shown he's patient and wants to build long term so probably won't be any rash decisions from his side. No idea what United's owners expectations are though. If they want him to turn a decade plus of wrong doings in that club over in a few months then they've probably hired the wrong manager. Someone like Tuchel would be more likely to bring them immediate success (probably still not what their fan base expects though) but in a year or two he would also go into a war with board like he did in previous clubs. I think Amorim can turn their fortune around if given enough time and support but I doubt he'll get that.
Maradona37
Well-known member
Thank you for the info. A lot of what I have said about their squad, with added details about Sporting players and personnel used there.
I don't think you mentioned Diallo there. He's probably one of their best and most technical players (no world beater though), so he definitely fits in much better than Garnacho or Rash as one of the two AMs. We will see what happens though. I too think he can do well if given time, but like you say they are a basket case so he likely won't get it.
Maradona37
Well-known member
Not gonna post all competitions, however their run into January and into the second half of the PL season looks quite difficult.
I wouldnt put it past them to get results in some of the games they are not expected to, as they are quite good at that and have a new manager bounce too now. But if Amorim does struggle in these games, results and performance wise, the last thing they should do is get on his back. They need to realise they need to give a manager a little time to implement his vision. Some managers can do it quickly and maybe Amorim will prove to be one of those, but if he doesn't their more toxic fans shouldn't turn on him.
I wouldnt put it past them to get results in some of the games they are not expected to, as they are quite good at that and have a new manager bounce too now. But if Amorim does struggle in these games, results and performance wise, the last thing they should do is get on his back. They need to realise they need to give a manager a little time to implement his vision. Some managers can do it quickly and maybe Amorim will prove to be one of those, but if he doesn't their more toxic fans shouldn't turn on him.
Temptation
Well-known member
Maradona37
Well-known member
Why am I not tagged? I am the biggest ABU here.
I am personally offended
Fati_Future_BallonDor
Well-known member
I remember all the hate Moyes got when he became Manu coach after Ferguson, Manu fans thought they can win cl with an another coach - poor dude 🫣
Maradona37
Well-known member
So, after what feels like an eternity due to the interlull, Amorim's first game is tomorrow at 16.30 UK Time, away at Ipswich.
Thus far this season they have 15 points from 11 games. That's an average of 1.36 points per game. Extrapolated across the entire season, that is a very poor (for a club of United's size) 52 points. However, they will argue they have unperformed so far and will hope for a huge upturn in both results and performances under Amorim.
I question whether his three at the back style will work in England. I know Conte has successfully implemented it before, but these players don't seem suited to it to me. They have no specialist wing-backs really for a start, and I feel if they try to repurpose Garnacho as a wing-back it will stall his development (even though I am not a big fan of his as a player in general). They also don't really seem to have enough number 10s who can play the way Amorim would like, as Fernandes is more of a big spaces passer and struggles with dribbling in small spaces. Maybe the guy will be a revelation under Amorim? Who knows. As stated before I think Amad could thrive as one of the two behind the striker.
I also feel there will be huge demands on the two in midfield, likely two of Mainoo/Ugarte/Casemiro. I don't feel the latter two progress the play or ball well enough. In this system they would also use De Ligt as the 'central' central defender and I think the opposition would be happy giving him the ball in a way they wouldn't with other CBs, who are much better ball players than he is. Maybe they'll use Yoro there instead and MDL on the right of the three.
There's more to talk about with the system, so it will be interesting to see what Amorim tries to do. If he feels the personnel aren't good enough he will likely try to bring in new players - though they have their issues with PSR.
Overall - despite questions and doubts about them - as a United hater I have a bit of a weird, worrying feeling. Under previous coaches I was very confident that they'd continue to struggle. I didn't expect anything from Moyes, Ole and Erik. However, Amorim definitely seems competent and a more capable operator than them. If they ruin this promising young coach's career too then they should probably just give up as a club. Let's hope they do continue to struggle though, he is a disaster, and my fears are misplaced.
Thus far this season they have 15 points from 11 games. That's an average of 1.36 points per game. Extrapolated across the entire season, that is a very poor (for a club of United's size) 52 points. However, they will argue they have unperformed so far and will hope for a huge upturn in both results and performances under Amorim.
I question whether his three at the back style will work in England. I know Conte has successfully implemented it before, but these players don't seem suited to it to me. They have no specialist wing-backs really for a start, and I feel if they try to repurpose Garnacho as a wing-back it will stall his development (even though I am not a big fan of his as a player in general). They also don't really seem to have enough number 10s who can play the way Amorim would like, as Fernandes is more of a big spaces passer and struggles with dribbling in small spaces. Maybe the guy will be a revelation under Amorim? Who knows. As stated before I think Amad could thrive as one of the two behind the striker.
I also feel there will be huge demands on the two in midfield, likely two of Mainoo/Ugarte/Casemiro. I don't feel the latter two progress the play or ball well enough. In this system they would also use De Ligt as the 'central' central defender and I think the opposition would be happy giving him the ball in a way they wouldn't with other CBs, who are much better ball players than he is. Maybe they'll use Yoro there instead and MDL on the right of the three.
There's more to talk about with the system, so it will be interesting to see what Amorim tries to do. If he feels the personnel aren't good enough he will likely try to bring in new players - though they have their issues with PSR.
Overall - despite questions and doubts about them - as a United hater I have a bit of a weird, worrying feeling. Under previous coaches I was very confident that they'd continue to struggle. I didn't expect anything from Moyes, Ole and Erik. However, Amorim definitely seems competent and a more capable operator than them. If they ruin this promising young coach's career too then they should probably just give up as a club. Let's hope they do continue to struggle though, he is a disaster, and my fears are misplaced.
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