Mavericky Puig

[Tackle]

If Puig played every week the Pedri thread would probably be bustling saying he is better, has higher potential and should play more.

It is normal. When the team is playing poorly, players that are injured or not playing many minutes have this great potential and saviour status imposed on them by fans. Just read the Dembele thread when he is injured. He suddenly turns into prime Ronaldinho. Same thing when Pique was injured. He was supposed come back and solve all our problems defensively. Lazy analysis by fans looking to blame the manager/external factors for failure.

 

[vegitot]

If Puig played every week the Pedri thread would probably be bustling saying he is better, has higher potential and should play more.

There is no comparision.

 

[vegitot]

This obsession of deeming every young player that struggles at club just needs a better manager is quite bizarre. Many players can succeed with the ideal system, manager, supporting cast etc. but things rarely ever line up like that in world football. Many fans seem to be stuck in the Pep days and have this utopian mentality that is virtually impossible to implement in practice apart from a few times in history.

The odds are if a player that is almost 22 cannot even make his U-21 national side then 99/100 times he is not going to go on to have a great career at the top level. How many young players in the last few years that we let go went on to prove that they are top level footballers? Not many. Likes of Denis, Digne etc. found their level at lesser clubs, while lads like Arthur, Mina, Samper etc. went on to flop completely. Tempting to bring up Thiago, but that was almost a decade ago and he was behind Xavi and Iniesta. Even then he did not have a very consistent career at Bayern.

But yes, it's always the evil EV, Lucho and Koeman's fault that the vast majority of youngsters at the club never make it at the top and not just simple reality that the level required to succeed at a club like Barca is very high and most don't have what it takes. Keyboard warriors will watch their favourite prospects flop year after year, but will still go on the hype the next Masia star and pretend they have it all figured out.

Top post.

 

[serghei]

This obsession of deeming every young player that struggles at club just needs a better manager is quite bizarre. Many players can succeed with the ideal system, manager, supporting cast etc. but things rarely ever line up like that in world football. Many fans seem to be stuck in the Pep days and have this utopian mentality that is virtually impossible to implement in practice apart from a few times in history.

The odds are if a player that is almost 22 cannot even make his U-21 national side then 99/100 times he is not going to go on to have a great career at the top level. How many young players in the last few years that we let go went on to prove that they are top level footballers? Not many. Likes of Denis, Digne etc. found their level at lesser clubs, while lads like Arthur, Mina, Samper etc. went on to flop completely. Tempting to bring up Thiago, but that was almost a decade ago and he was behind Xavi and Iniesta. Even then he did not have a very consistent career at Bayern.

But yes, it's always the evil EV, Lucho and Koeman's fault that the vast majority of youngsters at the club never make it at the top and not just simple reality that the level required to succeed at a club like Barca is very high and most don't have what it takes. Keyboard warriors will watch their favourite prospects flop year after year, but will still go on the hype the next Masia star and pretend they have it all figured out.

Maybe if we hired a good manager that would show the intent of playing the style we teach our youngsters at La Masia, instead of the mediocrity that we brought post-Guardiola, you would see less of this argumentation because fans would trust the manager more. How can you trust somebody like Koeman when you see what he did at the end of this season, relying on the same old dudes that made us a joke in the last few years? You can't.

As for the "can't even make his U-21 NT" it's an extremely poor argument and you know it. Most managers won't play players that barely get match time at their team. Look at Pedri, if he's not at Barca and playing every week, not in a million years does he get called for Spain, even though he was the exact same player at Las Palmas. Thing is, most managers call the known names and the players that are in the limelight at their teams.

I'm also tired of hearing fans moaning about every signing or every youngster, saying how everyone is a flop, and at the same time giving a free pass to mediocre managers like Valverde or Koeman. So, it goes both ways I guess.

 

[Gnidrologist]

All i want is him being tested more. Our team is so poor overall that it is criminal not to try more experimenting. This is one thing i love Pep for. He is audacious and can implement very weird setups that sometimes fail miserably, but sometimes give unexpected results. Our recent coaches have been stubborn and unflexible. They don't rotate, they don't try out different methods and players even, when this would be perfectly suitable. Like dead rubber matches that don't change anything or games, we have comfortable lead and could try out new things. This just doesn't happen with Barca i recent years and it's not just Koeman vs Puig problem. Like, why did he introduce shitty Pique and Roberto in crucial late season matches and discarded Mingueza and Araujo. Why is Dest regularly subbed off, despite his sub always being worse? Koeman is also totally retarded with his late game subs, where he either brings on 5 forwards to save the match or 5 defensive players to defend the miniscule lead against relagation fodder.

 

[Arnaez]

Puig's main thing seems to be chipped through passes to the right, but there isn't whole a lot of movement atm. That and being built like a squirrel, I can kind of understand Koeman's apprehension

 

[serghei]

All i want is him being tested more. Our team is so poor overall that it is criminal not to try more experimenting. This is one thing i love Pep for. He is audacious and can implement very weird setups that sometimes fail miserably, but sometimes give unexpected results. Our recent coaches have been stubborn and unflexible. They don't rotate, they don't try out different methods and players even, when this would be perfectly suitable. Like dead rubber matches that don't change anything or games, we have comfortable lead and could try out new things. This just doesn't happen with Barca i recent years and it's not just Koeman vs Puig problem. Like, why did he introduce shitty Pique and Roberto in crucial late season matches and discarded Mingueza and Araujo. Why is Dest regularly subbed off, despite his sub always being worse? Koeman is also totally retarded with his late game subs, where he either brings on 5 forwards to save the match or 5 defensive players to defend the miniscule lead against relagation fodder.

Because they are mediocre managers that try to keep their seat. They were all dominated by this conservative idea that veterans know better, even though players like Pique, Roberto, Umtiti are a disaster. Even Koeman, who seemed that he was braver, fell into this idiotic pattern, which cost him the title eventually.

We need to bring someone with better ideas, someone who doesn't get in random conflicts with his players, someone who can change things without worrying that he'll be sacked in 5 months.

 

[mc_lovin]

Still hope he stays for another season even if that means he is ruining his career. Not that I think he will become a world beater one way or another. But I would rather have him as a backup for Pedri than noone. Plus hes a joy to watch.

Because they are mediocre managers that try to keep their seat. They were all dominated by this conservative idea that veterans know better, even though players like Pique, Roberto, Umtiti are a disaster. Even Koeman, who seemed that he was braver, fell into this idiotic pattern, which cost him the title eventually.

He lost his place to Pedri ffs.

 

[serghei]

Still hope he stays for another season even if that means he is ruining his career. Not that I think he will become a world beater one way or another. But I would rather have him as a backup for Pedri than noone. Plus hes a joy to watch.



He lost his place to Pedri ffs.

This is not only about Puig. It's about washed up old players coming back from injury to ruin our end of the season, after the youngsters brought us back into the race.

Even Mingueza was benched. Pique came back into the line-up as if he was Baresi, and he's the worst defender in the team.

The best thing this season was watching the youngsters like Mingueza, Dest, Pedri play. Of the long injury list, nobody missed the likes of Roberto, Pique, Coutinho, let alone Umtiti, but another youngster, Fati.

The fans want something else. Are tired of the same old faces playing half-assed slow football.

 

[Bobo32]

All i want is him being tested more. Our team is so poor overall that it is criminal not to try more experimenting. This is one thing i love Pep for. He is audacious and can implement very weird setups that sometimes fail miserably, but sometimes give unexpected results. Our recent coaches have been stubborn and unflexible. They don't rotate, they don't try out different methods and players even, when this would be perfectly suitable. Like dead rubber matches that don't change anything or games, we have comfortable lead and could try out new things. This just doesn't happen with Barca i recent years and it's not just Koeman vs Puig problem. Like, why did he introduce shitty Pique and Roberto in crucial late season matches and discarded Mingueza and Araujo. Why is Dest regularly subbed off, despite his sub always being worse? Koeman is also totally retarded with his late game subs, where he either brings on 5 forwards to save the match or 5 defensive players to defend the miniscule lead against relagation fodder.

Yes, but I don't know that Pep has failed miserably too much - his teams in individual games yes, but mostly because of individual errors or unlucky match developments. I think he mostly succeeds in his experiments.

The one thing I most admire with Pep is his ability to use his squad well and let players play as well as rest. Pedri would play A LOT less under Pep, but be more hyped.

 

[mc_lovin]

This is not only about Puig. It's about washed up old players coming back from injury to ruin our end of the season, after the youngsters brought us back into the race.

Even Mingueza was benched. Pique came back into the line-up as if he was Baresi, and he's the worst defender in the team.

The best thing this season was watching the youngsters like Mingueza, Dest, Pedri play. Of the long injury list, nobody missed the likes of Roberto, Pique, Coutinho, let alone Umtiti, but another youngster, Fati.

The fans want something else. Are tired of the same old faces playing half-assed slow football.

Point is Puig just doesnt belong in that list. So its hardly relevant discussing it here.

Edit: Pep and City are a terrible comparison for every other top club.

 

[serghei]

Point is Puig just doesnt belong in that list. So its hardly relevant discussing it here.

Edit: Pep and City are a terrible comparison for every other top club.

He belongs in the list of players that should have played more minutes. That we are sure of. The rest, wether he does well with the minutes or not, is unknown.

 

[BBZ8800]

This obsession of deeming every young player that struggles at club just needs a better manager is quite bizarre. Many players can succeed with the ideal system, manager, supporting cast etc. but things rarely ever line up like that in world football.

Exactly.

Poor Puig/insert any new La Masia kid with Barca DNA, needs:
1. a perfect coach
2. perfect midfield teammates
3. wingers who can run and stretch the opponents

Yet, Xavi grew up playing with midfield partners Cocu, Fabio Rochemback, Riquelme, Motta, Gerard Lopez.
Attackers were Rivaldo and so-so Kluivert, shitty Saviola, granny Lucho, Dani Garcia.
And coaches were Sera Ferrer, Charlie Rexach and Antic.
Team only started to look better in 2004/05 season with Deco, Ronaldinho, Etoo, while Xavi missed the whole season of 2005/06 due to a knee injury.

So, by the age of 26, Xavi played only two seasons under Rijkaard, two seasons with Ronnie, one season with Deco.

Poor Xavi, had to play with bums and was coached by bums.
How did he make it at all in those circumstances?

While current kids, protected by our forum need a prime world class coach, awesome midfield and Ronaldinho/Henry on wings paired with Etoo in attack in order to fluorish.
And a lot of love by coach who needs to hold their hand in tough situations and take care not to hurt player's feeling and confidence.

Fc Snowflake, more than just a flake.

 

[serghei]

Exactly.

Poor Puig/insert any new La Masia kid with Barca DNA, needs:
1. a perfect coach
2. perfect midfield teammates
3. wingers who can run and stretch the opponents

Yet, Xavi grew up playing with midfield partners Cocu, Fabio Rochemback, Riquelme, Motta, Gerard Lopez.
Attackers were Rivaldo and so-so Kluivert, shitty Saviola, granny Lucho, Dani Garcia.
And coaches were Sera Ferrer, Charlie Rexach and Antic.
Team only started to look better in 2004/05 season with Deco, Ronaldinho, Etoo, while Xavi missed the whole season of 2005/06 due to a knee injury.

So, by the age of 26, Xavi played only two seasons under Rijkaard, two seasons with Ronnie, one season with Deco.

Poor Xavi, had to play with bums and was coached by bums.
How did he make it at all in those circumstances?

While current kids, protected by our forum need a prime world class coach, awesome midfield and Ronaldinho/Henry on wings paired with Etoo in attack in order to fluorish.
And a lot of love by coach who needs to hold their hand in tough situations and take care not to hurt player's feeling and confidence.

Fc Snowflake, more than just a flake.

How many titles did Barca win back then with Sera Ferrer, Rexach, and Antic?

2000-01 - 4th in La Liga (we qualified 4th in the last minute of the last match, with a Rivaldo golazo vs Valencia)
2001-02 - 4th in La Liga (barely)
2002-03 - 6th in La Liga (lol)

So, Xavi did well in the years before Pep, in a team having mediocre results for Barca standards, or even lower. So, he made it, but the standards were much lower back then. He was also one of the greatest CMs ever.

 

[Gnidrologist]

This forum should have feature to automatically ignore BBZ posts as they are redundant and stupid most of the time. And so fucking long that it shits up the whole thread.