Mavericky Puig

[Maradona37]

Yeah, analysing how good a player is is really different to how enjoyable they are to watch. In fact, whilst it's really effective, a lot of top level football is just mechanical, physical battling, pass and move and mostly running. Football definitely lost some glamour with the advent of the new age of physicality. It's rare to see a top team that will let their players express themselves anymore because they just get closed down too fast.

Yeah I said that too. More players can build a career based on fitness and athleticism now. Plenty aren't actually that good at football, relative to players from the past.

The game is more tactical now so it becomes more mechanical as you say. I like both tactical football and magical football from yesteryear though.

 

[Bobo32]

Fair enough, thanks for the info on him.

On Xavi, that speaks to what I always used to say about football: it is a game of synergies and specialists - players being the best at what they do and other team-mates being the best, and that totals into a brilliant team.

I don't believe football is about a player being 'complete' or a jack of all trades. I'd rather have players who are specialists and the best at what they do, and can operate in that way in their team. It accentuates their strengths and they can compensate for their team-mates' weaknesses.

Isn't that what a team is, after all? Guys who do different things well. Guys who do almost everything to all-time great level (Messi, Maradona, Pele) are anomalies.

I mostly agree, but at the same time, that Barcelona team of 2008-2012 or something was so great because they had very few specialists, it was almost as if they daringly said no to this "need of specialists". It was very synergistic though, they all made each other much better, because they kept the ball so well and were all so good and eager to get it back when they lost it. Or to rephrase it, all their specialists were of the same mold, most teams are/were built with 5-6 different types of specialists, Barcelona were almost 11 specialists of the same style (yes Messi was a little bit of an anomaly, but still of the same style).
I believe Puig could've really thrived in a system like this, where it for example is all about "taking a step forwards when you lose the ball" as Pep's vision famously was, and about that courageous control with which they handled the ball.

 

[Bobo32]

Yeah I said that too. More players can build a career based on fitness and athleticism now. Plenty aren't actually that good at football, relative to players from the past.

The game is more tactical now so it becomes more mechanical as you say. I like both tactical football and magical football from yesteryear though.

When Zidane was the best, consensus was that physicality would become more and more of a necessity, even for the play makers (a need to be 1.85+ and so on, they speculated). Then came Xavi-Iniesta domination, Modric etc. The meta changes all the time and tends to go in waves or circles

 

[Maradona37]

I mostly agree, but at the same time, that Barcelona team of 2008-2012 or something was so great because they had very few specialists, it was almost as if they daringly said no to this "need of specialists". It was very synergistic though, they all made each other much better, because they kept the ball so well and were all so good and eager to get it back when they lost it. Or to rephrase it, all their specialists were of the same mold, most teams are/were built with 5-6 different types of specialists, Barcelona were almost 11 specialists of the same style (yes Messi was a little bit of an anomaly, but still of the same style).
I believe Puig could've really thrived in a system like this, where it for example is all about "taking a step forwards when you lose the ball" as Pep's vision famously was, and about that courageous control with which they handled the ball.

That's a brilliant way to put it actually - a team of specialists that were in the same style and it resulted in something unbelievable. It can't be underestimated how important it is to get players who fit a system.

That's partly why when people compare teams player for player in position it's a more superficial endeavour. First because there will be bigger gaps between some matchups than others, but also because teams are often more than the sum of their parts. What made Barca so special was it was a team of very talented world beaters (including hte best player ever), playing a style that suited them perfectly, under arguably the best coach/manager ever. It was a perfect storm we are unlikely to see repeated in our lifetime.

Like I say I can't talk about Puig, but that teams from 2008 to 2012 was exceptional. There were a few tweaks in personnel, like Henry and Yaya leaving and guys like Ibra then Villa coming in, and other things happening, but the core remained the same.

I know that I watched Barca all the time back then, not because I am a fan of the club (I don't support them), but because I knew I was watching one of the greatest teams of all time (THE greatest imo) and wanted to make the most of it.

 

[Maradona37]

When Zidane was the best, consensus was that physicality would become more and more of a necessity, even for the play makers (a need to be 1.85+ and so on, they speculated). Then came Xavi-Iniesta domination, Modric etc. The meta changes all the time and tends to go in waves or circles

Good point too, these things tend to cycle around don't they.

I just wonder if we are reaching a case of diminishing returns with fitness and nutrition. Like with 4k being about as good as most eyes can see, so do we really need 8k? What do you think? Is there are a lot more to come from sports-science? Will it continue to improve a lot? Players already seem close to the peak of fitness.

 

[Bobo32]

That's a brilliant way to put it actually - a team of specialists that were in the same style and it resulted in something unbelievable. It can't be underestimated how important it is to get players who fit a system.

That's partly why when people compare teams player for player in position it's a more superficial endeavour. First because there will be bigger gaps between some matchups than others, but also because teams are often more than the sum of their parts. What made Barca so special was it was a team of very talented world beaters, playing a style that suited them perfectly, under arguably the best coach/manager ever. It was a perfect storm we are unlikely to see repeated in our lifetime.

Like I say I can't talk about Puig, but that teams from 2008 to 2012 was exception. There were a few tweaks in personnel, like Henry and Yaya leaving and guys like Ibra then Villa coming in, and other things happening, but the core remained the same.

I know that I watched Barca all the time back then, not because I am a fan of the club (I don't support them), but because I knew I was watching one of the greatest teams of all time (THE greatest imo) and wanted to make the most of it.

Curious, what is your team?

 

[Maradona37]

Curious, what is your team?

It's a long story. It was Rangers, but as I grew up I realised that I have different political views to the club and most fans, so I stopped supporting really. Some people don't mind that, but it felt weird for me to want them to win when I don't have the same political/social ideals as the club.

But at the same time I wasn't gonna pick a new club. So I just watch football with preferences now - I like some clubs and hate others, but don't support any. Fortunately I love football enough that I can watch without having a dog in the fight, so to say. For instance Scotland have always been garbage, but I still love watching the World Cup and Euros and never miss a game.

I am something of an ABU though and I love to see Man United lose.

 

[Iniesta Ultra]

Iniesta never had high G/A nor should any midfielder be expected to.

Puig is in 99 percentile of MLS midfielders for goals, xG/xA, shot-creating actions, passes attempted, progressive passes, progressive carries, and successful take-ons.

And this is with him giving 70% effort.

 

[DonAK]

Great for him.
Will build himself quite the forgettable MLS legacy there.

 

[JamDav1982]

Made up stats.

 

[Gnidrologist]

Didn't read the recent walls of texts by delusional cultists here, but i have one thing to say in favour of Poog. Think he realized his level of skill and willingness to commit and chose MLS to accommodate that. He's no fool and knows he'll never be able to rise up to world class level or even near it, so he choose the best possible career path, he could. If not for his flamboyant personality, he'd be much more respected here and thought none of. Just a decent prospect, who didn't pan out and went, where he belongs.

 

[Maradona37]

Didn't read the recent walls of texts by delusional cultists here, but i have one thing to say in favour of Poog. Think he realized his level of skill and willingness to commit and chose MLS to accommodate that. He's no fool and knows he'll never be able to rise up to world class level or even near it, so he choose the best possible career path, he could. If not for his flamboyant personality, he'd be much more respected here and thought none of. Just a decent prospect, who didn't pan out and went, where he belongs.

Most of the walls of texts weren't actually discussing him, but talking about how teams work in general and that and the move to physicality from technique.

 

[Gnidrologist]

Doesn't matter. Some of the posters above have drilled the delusional Poog fandom to death over the years here. Seems like peculiar form of mental disorder. Haven't been paying attention to most of the posts here, just wanted to state what seems obvious to me in his matter.

 

[Maradona37]

Doesn't matter. Some of the posters above have drilled the delusional Poog fandom to death over the years here. Seems like peculiar form of mental disorder. Haven't been paying attention to most of the posts here, just wanted to state what seems obvious to me in his matter.

Fair enough. I never mentioned him as a player myself as I have never seen a full 90 mins of him.

If other people think he's Iniesta reincarnated I wouldn't agree, but people do have their favourite players and stuff.

It is surprising he's playing in MLS aged 25 though. If he has ability he should come back to Europe and get serious I think.

 

[Gnidrologist]

He is definitely very talented in some areas and i was quite excited, when he first showed up and got he hype, when still in B team. He had some very good showings in few matches for the first team too. Definitely has great passing culture and ability to link up. Also not shabby shooter. His downfall was his attitude and lack of hard work to really command respect from coaches. He seemed to love his little bit of fame and spent more time at parties and showing off his good boyish looks with his fake smile than actually lifting weights and improving his skills. That's probably main reason why even Xavi, who is some kind of relative or friend of family of his and knew him from childhood, at the end said, "fuck that dipshit, he wont make it here". Don't even think his small stature and lack physicality was the main reason, mainly his attitude and commitment. This also why he choose MLS - know he can go easy peasy there, without stretching himself too much and still enjoy good night life in Miami. A little playboy he is.