Messi or Iniesta - the current BPITW?

[zanela]

Thnks

 

[Jordzibob]

"Well of course, he's a top player, but not quite as Iniesta in my opinion. Shakthtar and Sevilla? Cmon now. While Messi usually does great against Madrid, who tend to give him a shitload of space, he has struggled every single time against top English teams that take away space for his runs. This cannot be said for Iniesta."

Leave, now. People on here think I'm an idiot but at least im horrendously pro Barca, that what you just said is a complete insult. THERE WILL NOT be people on this forum spouting that absolute **** about how if you cant play well against English teams your a lesser player, shut up! Seriously! Who gives a **** how Messi plays against English teams? He played badly against Chelsea because they swarmed him whenever he got the ball, he wasnt absolutely fantastic against Man Utd but I think he fully dispelled that crap you've just said, god what a header, =] Little Leo beats huge Van Der Saar and Ferdinand. Ronaldo hasnt scored against a Spanish team yet....OH MY GOD HE MUST BE A WORSE PLAYER BECAUSE OF IT.....or not, its complete crap that ANYONE can now sit there and say "Lionel Messi cant play against English clubs", just dont. And Sevilla came
3rd in the Spanish League, and Shaktar won the Uefa cup, so they arent bad teams at all, in fact I think its highly likely that if Sevilla came up against Arsenal this season then they would in fact have beaten them, so dont give us that crap about English Football

 

[diegomessi]

for me they are two players with completely different objectives when they receive the ball.. iniesta is more of a playmaker receiving the ball deep and central and feeding strikers and wide players, and he is also the direct link to xavi.. while messi is more of the player that is going to run at people from wide, or just link play.... Iniesta is not the best finisher although this seeason he scored some gols i did not think he was capable of. it is a hard debate but i really think that iniesta is a slow version of messi.. if iniesta had the pace of messi wooow i cannot even imagine.. for me messi has something that sets him apart from any player in the world... he is the player that can score a gol no matter where he has the ball on the field... so i think messi is the better attacker, iniesta is the better midfielder

 

[cule19]

Messi:
Dribbling-10
Pace-9.5
Stamina-9
Strength-7
Passing-8
Technique-9
Finishing-9.5
Shooting-8
Heading-7
Crossing-8
Playmaking-9
Tackling-6
Ball control-10
One touch play-10
Decision Making-7.5
X-Factor-10

Iniesta:
Dribbling-9
Pace-8
Stamina-8
Strength-7
Passing-9.5
Technique-9.5
Finishing-9
Shooting-9.5
Heading-7
Crossing-8
Playmaking-9
Tackling-7
Ball control-9
One touch play-9.5
Decision Making-9
X-Factor-9

For me Iniesta is the better overall player, he's got quality in everything. But there is no single player that can reach Messi in his strongest posts. Like maz said Iniesta just seemed to bloom this year, he was somehow transparent previously, mostly opaqued by his teammates, but this year he managed to make a good connection with Xavi, Messi, Toure and everyone else, which concluded in one of his most notable seasons. Meanwhile Messi has always had up and downs, his downs gladly haven't resulted in major loss, and his goods were mostly against Real and times he entered as sub.

tl;dr This season Iniesta was the better collective player, but Messi is better by a few small factors.

 

[Abaddon]

"Well of course, he's a top player, but not quite as Iniesta in my opinion. Shakthtar and Sevilla? Cmon now. While Messi usually does great against Madrid, who tend to give him a shitload of space, he has struggled every single time against top English teams that take away space for his runs. This cannot be said for Iniesta."

Leave, now. People on here think I'm an idiot but at least im horrendously pro Barca, that what you just said is a complete insult. THERE WILL NOT be people on this forum spouting that absolute **** about how if you cant play well against English teams your a lesser player, shut up! Seriously! Who gives a **** how Messi plays against English teams? He played badly against Chelsea because they swarmed him whenever he got the ball, he wasnt absolutely fantastic against Man Utd but I think he fully dispelled that crap you've just said, god what a header, =] Little Leo beats huge Van Der Saar and Ferdinand. Ronaldo hasnt scored against a Spanish team yet....OH MY GOD HE MUST BE A WORSE PLAYER BECAUSE OF IT.....or not, its complete crap that ANYONE can now sit there and say "Lionel Messi cant play against English clubs", just dont. And Sevilla came
3rd in the Spanish League, and Shaktar won the Uefa cup, so they arent bad teams at all, in fact I think its highly likely that if Sevilla came up against Arsenal this season then they would in fact have beaten them, so dont give us that crap about English Football

Someone is taking this a little too seriously...

I don't think you fully understood my post, by no means am I a huge fan of English football or do I think performance against English sides is the measure for everything. It's just an interesting fact that he's been contained by those teams every single time. And no, they have never put 3 guys on him, to suggest anything like that is ludicrous.

@ "little Messi beating huge Ferdinand", he was nowhere near him. Epic marking fuckup if anything.

 

[DivineVisitor]

I'm not talking about Iniesta at all here...

I'm talking about where you said you are yet to see Messi lose the ball more than 1 - 2 times a match, but in the CL final alone he lost it a lot.

Nonsence, his pass completion rate was about 85% (3rd highest behind Xavi and then Iniesta) and the majority of his dribbles ended in free kicks or a pass, he got tackled occasionally perhaps more than he usually does but that's not suprising against one of the top teams in the world.

Someone is taking this a little too seriously...

I don't think you fully understood my post, by no means am I a huge fan of English football or do I think performance against English sides is the measure for everything. It's just an interesting fact that he's been contained by those teams every single time. And no, they have never put 3 guys on him, to suggest anything like that is ludicrous.

@ "little Messi beating huge Ferdinand", he was nowhere near him. Epic marking fuckup if anything.

Well Messi hasn't "been contained by those teams every single time" against English sides. Infact that could only really be said about the two Chelsea legs of this year. Sure he hadn't scored against English sides till the Champions league Final (though when better to get that elusive goal?) but that's not to say he didn't come close on numerous occasions, set up other people's goals or performed well on his part which he had done against said 'top english sides' in the past.
And yes he does get marked redicusly by other teams moreso than Iniesta which was basically Jordzibob's point, yet more often than not it still doesn't stop Messi.

Well of course, he's a top player, but not quite as Iniesta in my opinion. Shakthtar and Sevilla? Cmon now. While Messi usually does great against Madrid, who tend to give him a shitload of space, he has struggled every single time against top English teams that take away space for his runs. This cannot be said for Iniesta.

Messi is marked tighter than Iniesta and usually plays further up the pitch which often gives him less space to work his magic in the way Iniesta can work his. I suppose Aletico Madrid don't count either than since there below the top two in Spain? Other than the fact they could have defeated Liverpool twice this season if not for Gerard diving in the box for a penalty and Aletico having perfectly good goals disallowed in the other game. Yet Barca tore them a new arsehole with Messi being the primary surgeon 3 times out of 4, and still performed well on an individual basis each time.

Here's a fact, Ronaldo has NEVER scored against Spanish opposition, i guess Spanish teams have him sussed then.

Meanwhile Messi has always had up and downs, his downs gladly haven't resulted in major loss, and his goods were mostly against Real and times he entered as sub.

Always had his up's and downs? The only downs he has is when he's injured and his ups have come against all sorts of teams from all over the world, he's schooled guys from France, Germany, Spain, England, Scotland, Portugal, Holland, Brazil, Argentina, Africa, America you name it he's made them look the fool at 21 years. Thats incredible (yes i know he's 22 now but he's not played any games since his birthday has he ).

To be honest people really are being too hard on Messi here which i feel is suprising.

The thing is, messi has been consistently good for so long, whereas iniesta has only really been this good for a season. In previous seasons he was brilliant, but there was no question whatsoever that messi was better. Iniesta was still learning. However this season it seems to have all come together for him. People are fickle when it comes to many things, and this is one of them. I dont mean that in a bad way, but lots of people like change. They're bored of saying messi is the best and now they can say iniesta is the best. But i only say that because i feel messi is better and cant see another reason for why iniesta is displacing messi as best player.

Couldn't agree more Maz.

 

[Abaddon]

Messi is marked tighter than Iniesta and usually plays further up the pitch which often gives him less space to work his magic in the way Iniesta can work his. I suppose Aletico Madrid don't count either than since there below the top two in Spain? Other than the fact they could have defeated Liverpool twice this season if not for Gerard diving in the box for a penalty and Aletico having perfectly good goals disallowed in the other game. Yet Barca tore them a new arsehole with Messi being the primary surgeon 3 times out of 4, and still performed well on an individual basis each time.

Here's a fact, Ronaldo has NEVER scored against Spanish opposition, i guess Spanish teams have him sussed then.

Those defenses do not focus on individuals that much, they just take away space in general, and Messi has no answer for it. He's not a great decision maker and often hangs on to the ball for too long, those are the reasons he struggles against that kind of defense, not being marked by 3 or more players cause that simply doesn't happen.

Bringing up Atletico? How many goals did you put past them? 6? Seriously, everyone on your team was walking right through that defense, it was not Messi who opened that up.

And yes, Messi is contained by English sides and has not played well against them. I've had this debate plenty of times with people on the other board and we'll probably never agree, but showing some flashy dribbles yet being completely ineffectual is not having a good game. He did not have a good game against Man Utd, sorry.

Not sure what Cron has to do with anything, but how many Spanish teams has he played? And I'd love to see his team's record against those.

 

[maz]

Someone is taking this a little too seriously...

Yeah take it easy zanela..he is just giving his opinion. And to say that messi cant do it against english teams has been, for such a long time, a concern for culés. Its definitely a valid argument. Having said that, the fact that he set up the goal for iniesta, and scored the one against man utd shows that he is beginning to have better luck against english teams.

 

[G.J]

Well I dont think its an indivdual issue. The concern was FCB inability to be effective against english opposition. After all Messi motown moment was against Chelsea in 05.

As for CR90,000, I think he played 4 times against Villareal and 3 times against Barca. Zero goals. Dont know if its an indication of anything though tbh.

 

[Fourteen]

I don't think he's particularly struggled against English teams, he's just been unable to score against them (Untill recently of course). One of the best games he has ever played was against Chelsea at Stamford Bridge in 2006 when we beat them 2-1.

 

[Zqa-]

@cule 19, Iniesta shooting 9 and finishing 9.5? What Iniesta is it that you speak of?

 

[G.J]

Iniesta went from fantastic player in November....to one of the best midfielders in the world in January....to one of the best 5 players in the world in april....to the best player in the world in June. That alone speaks volumes about the situation on hand. It will only take a few bad games and people will say hes nowhere near the messi's kaka's and ronaldo's of the world. IMHO hes the most underrated player in the world as shown by FIFA, and is currently among the top 5. But Dont think anyone comes close to Messi atm.

 

[DivineVisitor]

Those defenses do not focus on individuals that much, they just take away space in general, and Messi has no answer for it. He's not a great decision maker and often hangs on to the ball for too long, those are the reasons he struggles against that kind of defense, not being marked by 3 or more players cause that simply doesn't happen.

Bringing up Atletico? How many goals did you put past them? 6? Seriously, everyone on your team was walking right through that defense, it was not Messi who opened that up.

And yes, Messi is contained by English sides and has not played well against them. I've had this debate plenty of times with people on the other board and we'll probably never agree, but showing some flashy dribbles yet being completely ineffectual is not having a good game. He did not have a good game against Man Utd, sorry.

Not sure what Cron has to do with anything, but how many Spanish teams has he played? And I'd love to see his team's record against those.

I brought up Ronaldo mainly to show that the theory of a top player not scoring against a opposition from a particular country and therefore must be ineffective against them is silly, Ronaldo probably played a good role against the Spanish sides he was up against in those games dispite not scoring, like Messi against English sides.

Looks like we'l have to agree to disagree. Messi imo is very, very rarely "showing some flashy dribbles yet being completely ineffectual" he dribbles when he needs to and passes when he needs to, is a very good decision maker and had a good game against Man Utd. Not an amazing game but he was one of the top 3-5 performers in that match. Xavi and Iniesta would be the players of the match, followed by probably Pique, Messi and Puyol.

 

[VivaBarca]

No offence but Messi has been better than Iniesta when he's not been injured in the past 4 seasons. Messi creates and scores more plus Messi has been the best Barca player this season.

 

[Abaddon]

I don't think he's particularly struggled against English teams, he's just been unable to score against them (Untill recently of course). One of the best games he has ever played was against Chelsea at Stamford Bridge in 2006 when we beat them 2-1.

That is one game I forgot about and I have to give you that one. I believe Dinho was still the big man getting the most attention back then tho.