Miralem Pjanic

[FC433]

What a mistake. Very frustrating. Something to note, Arthur will earn 5.5m, while Pjanic 7.5m according to some reports.

 

[vuji_31]

That is bad.

 

[DonAndres]

That is based purely on assists/chances.

There was similar graph for last season that showed him as one of most progressive passers in Europe.

This season he is playing deep in almost the Jorghino role and doesnt suit him.

He is more mobile and fitter than Arthur is.

Expected assists, not assists. A huge difference which you clearly don't seem to understand.

xG Chain per 90 for Arthur in the last 2 seasons have been:

18/19-> 0.71
19/20-> 0.58

xG Chain per 90 for Pjanic has been:

18/19-> 0.56
19/20-> 0.57

He has been in a clear and underwhelming decline. Plenty of Juve fans have seen it and call him a shit, sideways passing metronome and massively prefer Betancur. It's not even just a matter of this season in a new role, he's genuinely just getting worse and worse.

And I'm not even AGAINST selling Arthur, and agree he has performed poorly. But Pjanic is dead weight and if Arthur is shit, Pjanic is just as bad as well as being old/declining. And due to his name, he is more likely to get significant minutes in important games than Arthur was which is a bigger problem.

 

[JamDav1982]

Expected assists, not assists. A huge difference which you clearly don't seem to understand.

xG Chain per 90 for Arthur in the last 2 seasons have been:

18/19-> 0.71
19/20-> 0.58

xG Chain per 90 for Pjanic has been:

18/19-> 0.56
19/20-> 0.57

He has been in a clear and underwhelming decline. Plenty of Juve fans have seen it and call him a shit, sideways passing metronome and massively prefer Betancur. It's not even just a matter of this season in a new role, he's genuinely just getting worse and worse.

And I'm not even AGAINST selling Arthur, and agree he has performed poorly. But Pjanic is dead weight and if Arthur is shit, Pjanic is just as bad as well as being old/declining. And due to his name, he is more likely to get significant minutes in important games than Arthur was which is a bigger problem.

Yes I said it is based on assists/chances.

Many Juventus fans also say he is still their best midfielder and suffered due to Sarris tactics.

Last season he passed ball forward almost as much as anyone in europe. The stats back that up.

Lets see how he does but I really doubt he wont provide more to squad across season than Arthur has past couple years.

 

[serghei]

JamDav, initially you were of the opinion that Arthur for Pjanic is a bad deal, because Pjanic is much older. Now you're advocating this is a good deal for us?

 

[JamDav1982]

JamDav, initially you were of the opinion that Arthur for Pjanic is a bad deal, because Pjanic is much older. Now you're advocating this is a good deal for us?

Bad deal for straight swap and still not enamoured with the finances.

Fuck knows if will be a good deal. Depends on how Pjanic performs and if Barca sell him to get some money back at some point.

Arthur in last few games entrenched for me everything thought he lacked and made it less of a shit deal but maybe being too harsh on him as being distracted.

 

[DonAndres]

Yes I said it is based on assists/chances.

Many Juventus fans also say he is still their best midfielder and suffered due to Sarris tactics.

Last season he passed ball forward almost as much as anyone in europe. The stats back that up.

Lets see how he does but I really doubt he wont provide more to squad across season than Arthur has past couple years.

Do you understand what an expected assist is? It is the weighted probability that a pass that a player makes is one that is followed by an expected goal, xG. Based on a large sample of a historical dataset of shots / goals from certain field positions to give a probability weighting.

It is not similar to "assists" and nowhere near as rudimentary of a stat. You cannot make that comparison, period.

And that graphic you're referring to about "passing the ball forward" is complete nonsense. OPTA's definition of a forward pass based on simple direction is fairly meaningless, as it is binary difference between "forward" or "backward". A pass can be completely sideways, but maybe 2-3 degrees above the plane in forward direction and be counted as a forward pass. It means nothing in terms of the actual vertical yardage gained by those passes.

Pjanic is not a more progressive player than Verratti, De Bruyne, or Kroos as that measurement would suggest. Not even close to it.

Don't make arguments regarding analytics when your understanding of it is extremely primitive.

 

[JamDav1982]

Do you understand what an expected assist is? It is the weighted probability that a pass that a player makes is one that is followed by an expected goal, xG. Based on a large sample of a historical dataset of shots / goals from certain field positions to give a probability weighting.

It is not similar to "assists" and nowhere near as rudimentary of a stat. You cannot make that comparison, period.

And that graphic you're referring to about "passing the ball forward" is complete nonsense. OPTA's definition of a forward pass based on simple direction is fairly meaningless, as it is binary difference between "forward" or "backward". A pass can be completely sideways, but maybe 2-3 degrees above the plane in forward direction and be counted as a forward pass. It means nothing in terms of the actual vertical yardage gained by those passes.

Pjanic is not a more progressive player than Verratti, De Bruyne, or Kroos as that measurement would suggest. Not even close to it.

Don't make arguments regarding analytics when your understanding of it is extremely primitive.

I understand yes they were talking about assists and chances created and that is expected assists.

He passes it forward more than those players. Simple analytics.

 

[DonAndres]

I understand yes they were talking about assists and chances created and that is expected assists.

He passes it forward more than those players. Simple analytics.

Lmfao you're just trolling now, the language even sounds like Donald Trump talking about science when he doesn't understand it.

I can play a 10m pass sideways, that goes 5cm forward, and I can do it super consistently too. That's a forward pass. Barca should sign me up, I can be one of the most progressive passers in all of Europe.

I've been waiting for my contract offer, dunno where its at.

 

[JamDav1982]

Lmfao you're just trolling now, the language even sounds like Donald Trump talking about science when he doesn't understand it.

I can play a 10m pass sideways, that goes 5cm forward, and I can do it super consistently too. That's a forward pass. Barca should sign me up, I can be one of the most progressive passers in all of Europe.

I've been waiting for my contract offer, dunno where its at.

If you try to claim he only passes it sideways dont cry when stats show otherwise.

FAKENEWS!

 

[wisconsincule]

What a mistake. Very frustrating. Something to note, Arthur will earn 5.5m, while Pjanic 7.5m according to some reports.

I saw this too. If this is true it’s a nice little pay jump for Pjanic. What could go wrong with giving yet another over 30 player a bump in pay.

Shameful.

 

[DonAndres]

If you try to claim he only passes it sideways dont cry when stats show otherwise.

FAKENEWS!

The stats which don't even have a variable designated as "sideways", right. Math and science and logical thinking isn't your forte mate.

Like I said, I can do it too. Even more consistently than Pjanic I reckon. I could pretty much be the most progressive passer in all of Europe if I wanted to. I'm just waiting on the multimillion dollar contract offers that should be coming in any day now.

 

[JamDav1982]

The stats which don't even have a variable designated as "sideways", right. Math and science and logical thinking isn't your forte mate.

Like I said, I can do it too. Even more consistently than Pjanic I reckon. I could pretty much be the most progressive passer in all of Europe if I wanted to. I'm just waiting on the multimillion dollar contract offers that should be coming in any day now.

Fakenews.... 'they are counting sideways passes'.

Wrong!

 

[JamDav1982]

I saw this too. If this is true it’s a nice little pay jump for Pjanic. What could go wrong with giving yet another over 30 player a bump in pay.

Shameful.

Boils down to more or less a straight swap with that 10m to cover wages it seems.

 

[Raketa10]

Another horrible deal. Elections can't come soon enough.