Neymar Jr. - v5

putogusiluz8

The Pale One
Despite his overwhelming talent Neymar biggest problem (not just this season) is his is never in the tempo. To achieve new height that's what he must learn. When to accelerate, when to pass,when to dribble, when to slow down in synchronization with other team members specially busquets, alba and Messi.

With a competent coach it might be possible.

Yes, when all players are in synch with the speed of play, not taking too long on the ball just the right amount like a steady beat pass pass pass, dribble, pass, it makes the team run smoother.

Neymar plays at his own rythm this is true. Though he is unselfish, he often feels disjointed from this teammates for this reason. I guess its also ingrained, part the player he is but he can certainly modify this a bit... he just loves to stand out when he is on the ball and to be in time with the team you must be play like another gear in the clockwork sometimes. Messi is able both standout and not slow the rythm.
 

dakt

Active member
Again, goal scoring is horrific. I'm looking at stats, only 9 goals in la liga:

Leganes 1 : 5 Barcelona (1x)
Sporting Gijon 0 : 5 Barcelona (2x)
Celta Vigo 4 : 3 Barcelona (1x)
Eibar 0 : 4 Barcelona (1x)
Alaves 0 : 6 Barcelona (1x)
Barcelona 6 : 1 Sporting Gijon (1x)
Barcelona 5 : 0 Celta Vigo (1x)
Granada 1 : 4 Barcelona (1x)

So in short even when he scored, he scored when we were dominating against weaker teams.
I'm sorry fans, but that's a far cry from what is required to be the world's best player (while he does receive fat paycheck as one of the best). Had he been a bit better, maybe we would be 3 or 6 pts ahead of RM.
Again, I can only wonder if some, even less noticeable players in the world of football, would be more effective.

The only thing imho that pulls him out of the disaster is that game against PSG and couple of other games in the league where he was contributing with assists.

New manager next season, if he fails to improve significantly, I won't care about excuses anymore.
 

BBZ8800

Senior Member
Despite his overwhelming talent Neymar biggest problem (not just this season) is his is never in the tempo. To achieve new height that's what he must learn. When to accelerate, when to pass,when to dribble, when to slow down in synchronization with other team members specially busquets, alba and Messi.

With a competent coach it might be possible.

Yes.
You need some brains and experience to understand WHEN to dribble past 5 players, when to play a simple pass.
When to attack the opponent and when to slow down and wait a few moments (or passes) for a better opportunity to attack and do something lethal.

With Neymar, almost EVERY SINGLE ACTION is a lethal one.
When he gets the balls, he plays as if every action is a matter of life and death and he tries to dribble past 4 players or play a deadly through ball right away (which will either end in a clear 1 vs 1 chance for Suarez or Messi) or, more likely, it will end as possession lost.

This is one of the main reasons (imo) why we play more fluid and more like a classic Barca when we play without Neymar.
Other players have more IQ to play classic Barca's style and to decide when to pass, when to dribble and wait to slow down.

People say often that he is a best LW in the world and that every other LW is a downgrade.
Well, every player is a downgrade on an individual level of skills.
But whether other LWs (Dybala, Griezmann, Reus, insert a random winger) would be a downgrade for Barca, in terms of how those players would fit to our team, how fluently we would play etc, that is another question.

In 3 matches when we played without Neymar, we played MORE like a classic Barca, because those 11 players are not a turnover machines like Neymar.
When Paco had the ball, he is an obvious downgrade to Neymar.
But Paco didn't go into crazy solo runs against 5 players.
That means that Paco didn't create any crazy solo-run-through-ball combo (Neymar is better in that), but that also means that Paco wasn't giving away possession either.
And with less balls lost, our 3 granny midfielders don't lose as much energy to run up and down 50-100 times per match, and then they have more energy for attacking and movement in attack.
With less balls lost, we have the ball all the time, and also opponents have less chances to score on counters.

Also, imo, it is a no wonder lately that even Messi seems to play weaker when both him and Ney are on the field.
How I look at it, in numbers, it is something like (this is my view, NOT a fact):
1) if we will play with Messi-Suarez-a random LW:
-- Messi will have 40 times a ball in his feet around the box due to a higher possession and Messipendencia, and he will be able to decide when to dribble, when to shoot, when to slow down and wait
-- so, Messi will have way more options/attempts to do something. And he will try his solo run/shoot/or deadly pass 5-10 times per match
-- Suarez will "lose/ruin" 5 actions
-- Paco will lose/ruin 5 actions
2) when we play MSN, Neymar is having the ball extremely often this season.
That means that Messi won't be involved as much (40 times like in the previous example), but more likely:
Neymar 25 actions
Messi 20 actions
Suarez 5 actions
Plus, since majority of Neymar's actions are a do or die/all in/a matter of life and death, he will lose 10-15 balls, get fouled 5+ times and in 5+ actions he will create a solo action or he will shoot and fail.
So, basically, Neymar will do a lot of "show" but since he can't score and since he is losing a lot of balls, that will mean slightly less balls/attempts for Messi and Suarez (this is NOT a fact, just my view).
And that means, due to less possession and less balls in Messi's feet, that Messi will do his "tricks" and trademark runs and shots less often when Neymar is on a field.
Is it a wonder that Messi had the best El Classico lately (and the highest number of his solo actions/attempts and shots), without Neymar on a field?
With Neymar on a field, a balance is different, and Messi plays differently.

I have already wrote that we had 10-1-1 ratio (wins-draws-defeats) this seasons without Neymar.
And even in the last 5 La liga matches, our least fluid displays were WITH Neymar on a field (Malaga and Espanyol) and we looked more fluid/classic Barca against Sociedad, Real and Osasuna.

Majority won't agree, but I am starting to look at Neymar as on Zlatan, to some extent.
A player who is obviously a top2-3 in the world at his position, but who just doesn't fit here completely and something is just "broken" when he plays.
Zlatan was extreme example and he was a truly horrible fit.
Neymar is a way better fit, but imo, he is still not a Barca's fit.

About guys who say that he could improve since he play differently for Brasil and for Barca.
I don't agree with that.
Imo, he plays equally as dumb (run and gun) for Brasil as he plays here. Do or die in every single action.

For example a match from last Month, vs Paraguay.
People will say that he played like a Goat and scored 2 goals.
But if you look closer at his actions, he just goes and dribbles whenever possible.
And a result of that is that he will either score (once in 10 actions) or lose the ball when dribbling or miss the target (in roughly 9 out of 10 actions).

Now translate his play into Barca and it's the same.
We tend to play a somewhat possession based football, but Neymar play a totally different football.

Anyway, here is a video. And people, DON'T look at goals.
Look at Neymar before and after goals and how many times he ruins actions or goes into crazy solo runs for no reason.
There are no simple passes with him.
There is no playing safe.
There is no Barca's style.
He just gets the ball and hogs the balls/dribbles past 5 defenders/get fouled/shoots from any position/crosses in the box.
Once again, in short: when Neymar gets the ball, the action will finish in the next 10 seconds. We will either score a goal or lose the ball.
There is no such thing: as keep possession, play around the box and wait for a better opportunity to shot/pass/dribble with him.

This is the video:
 

Potroh

New member
Also, imo, it is a no wonder lately that even Messi seems to play weaker when both him and Ney are on the field.

Weaker? Messi probably plays much happier - regardless the results - just because Neymar is there. Both are looking for each other, because certain creative sparks of imagination can only be understood by the other genius.
BTW, Messi tries to dribble at least as much as Neymar does, and if you count the actual result of who is getting past more defenders, then it is actually Neymar, even if the 5th one is able to stop him. Of course it is an entirely different matter that Messi is much more lethal with his finishing capabilities.
Once again - despite the actual results - football is also an art-form, where exceptional artists like the two of them often try the "impossible", which sometimes comes through and gives the actual beauty of this game...
 

mark1nhu

New member
Jesus Christ, here we go again.

Haters here are simply restless (not a compliment, they should be embarrassed, actually).
 

Mitchell1978

Senior Member
BTW, Messi tries to dribble at least as much as Neymar does, and if you count the actual result of who is getting past more defenders, then it is actually Neymar, even if the 5th one is able to stop him.

Actually no, Neymar by far attempts the most dribbles this season, succes rate is about the same
 

dakt

Active member
^ Did bbz bite you? :lol:

Man fuck it, want to admit or not his stats this season are not better then Pedro's or Sanchez's when they were here (assists included).
He went from 22-24 goals in the first two seasons down to 9. That's a huge deficit for someone who's paid just as Messi or even more at this moment.

The only reason why people tolerate him is marketing, some samba shit he does on the pitch and the prophecy that he will be great one day.
And I'm not sure why people take this so personally. When someone is in bad form, that's just a fact. Nothing emotional about. At one point, Messi will fall on these branches also.
Look how people don't give much damn when they criticize giants like Iniesta, a true legend here in Barca. But fuck it, he's a pale, bald and introvert guy so nobody gives a damn. Go out, leave, sell.

OK, fine, I'm willing to see him under the new coach...even thou that didn't stop Lio or even Suarez to deliver, but since this is pulled as the great reason why he's weak this season, I'm willing to see what happens next.

In that sense, good luck to him and his followers.
 

DonAK

President of FC Barcelona
Some of you guys are crazily unreasonable and happy to paint everyone on this forum with the same paint brush while acting like you're fighting a valiant battle against a bunch of NeyZombies.

And then you wonder why you end up in arguments with people calling you guys out all the time.

Should apply to work in Mendes and Cristiano's PR department. Great at rewriting everything and every argument here like they do with the media and his PR stuff.
 

Sneer

Banned
How about we address the elephant in the room ?
The reason the team hardly score long range goals anymore. . . . Everyone, Neymar most culpable passes the ball to Messi as soon as they get close to the 18 yard box.
Add that to the fact Neymar's role this season as an outright winger has seen him more as a creator than a scorer, should explain things to the whiners a lot better.
 

Windhook

Well-known member
And I'm not sure why people take this so personally. When someone is in bad form, that's just a fact. Nothing emotional about. At one point, Messi will fall on these branches also.

It's all about national pride. The Brazilians on this board are offended and it's normal, just like Croats are about Rakitic. Now say something about... Kun Temenuzhkov to offend me! :lol:

The look for scapegoats continues - until yesterday it was Suarez, today Neymar. Maybe next week we will jump back on our MVP this season Andre Gomes. Or even Messi if he puts on another performance like the Malaga game.

To me the most important thing is to keep winning matches, we have a great momentum, we won three in a row. Individual performances are of not big importance at this stage. I wish we had this kind of approach to every game this season.
 

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