Neymar Jr. - v5

[Horatio]

Why good post? I thought you were convinced football IQ couldn't be improved.

 

[Windhook]

Neymar is the personification of everything wrong about the MSN approach, which is excessive individualism.

Now hold on there. Calling Neymar egocentric player is not justified. He's in poor form, we all can see that clearly. But calling him selfish player is absolutely wrong. He does all these crazy things for the sake of the team, not to outshine Messi or anyone else. If he was selfish he would have ended as leading goalscorer in La Liga this season, he had a lot of opportunities to shoot instead of seeking Messi in the area. Lucho knows very well that Neymar is one of the main players who can get his markers booked with all these meaningless tricks. Why do you think Messi overreacts this season with his booking gestures to the referees?

 

[Barcaman]

Why good post? I thought you were convinced football IQ couldn't be improved.

Call me a hopeless optimist.

 

[Meatball]

watching

 

[mark1nhu]

Stats mean shit, you should know that as a barca fan, the only thing that matters is how every pieces are put together to achieve perfect harmony. That's the only way to produce beautiful and efficient gameplay. That's the barca way. The way that allowed us to rule the football world for a decade.

Neymar is the personification of everything wrong about the MSN approach, which is excessive individualism.

Like I said he is never in the tempo, it's like he is playing the game on his own. That doesnt mean I'm putting him on the selling list, he is too much talended for that. He must get better in some key aspects of the game.

He got the skills now he needs to develop his football IQ.

How about fixing the goddamn tatics and letting him play the way he is supposed to play, instead of needing to drop very deep to make the midfield work?

Neymar is not the personification of everything wrong about the MSN approach, our useless midfield is. We all have seen how MSN can work beautifully with a controlling midfield.

 

[dakt]

He got the skills now he needs to develop his football IQ.

You're damn right.
And it doesn't take much really, just fucking pass and move to free space. Man I wish Xavi could slap his ass and show how it's done.
His dribbles are among the best in game, but are often way to complex, against too many opponents and in the wrong position on the pitch.
Yes, Messi can do stupid things also, but there are very rare.

 

[dakt]

How about fixing the goddamn tatics and letting him play the way he is supposed to play, instead of needing to drop very deep to make the midfield work?

Neymar is not the personification of everything wrong about the MSN approach, our useless midfield is. We all have seen how MSN can work beautifully with a controlling midfield.

I'm not rejecting this argument, but at the same time, even with broken tactics, he should have more impact imo. That could come easily with better decision making and less solo playing. Easily.

 

[Sneer]

Stats mean shit, you should know that as a barca fan, the only thing that matters is how every pieces are put together to achieve perfect harmony. That's the only way to produce beautiful and efficient gameplay. That's the barca way. The way that allowed us to rule the football world for a decade.

Neymar is the personification of everything wrong about the MSN approach, which is excessive individualism.

Like I said he is never in the tempo, it's like he is playing the game on his own. That doesnt mean I'm putting him on the selling list, he is too much talended for that. He must get better in some key aspects of the game.

He got the skills now he needs to develop his football IQ.

Statistics is a branch of mathematics dealing with the collection, analysis, interpretation, presentation, and organization of data. In applying statistics to, e.g., a scientific, industrial, or social problem, it is conventional to begin with a statistical population or a statistical model process to be studied.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statistics

 

[BBZ8800]

How about fixing the goddamn tatics and letting him play the way he is supposed to play, instead of needing to drop very deep to make the midfield work?

Neymar is not the personification of everything wrong about the MSN approach, our useless midfield is. We all have seen how MSN can work beautifully with a controlling midfield.

But, it seems that Neymar plays EXACTLY the same for Brasil.
He goes deep, hogs the balls, dribbles past 5 players.
That's just who he is, regardless of in which team he plays.
Unless if a Brasilian coach is as dumb as Lucho?

The problem is that kind of a player isn't helping too much to Barca.
Neymar in Brasil, doing all the same things:

One more time, with the way how he plays, midfield can't do anything.
Once you pass the ball to Neymar, the action is gone.
It will end either as a goal, or as a fail dribble or as a foul.
Midfielders won't "see" the ball anymore.

1. Barca didn't manage to NOT reach CL semis twice in a row since 2003 and 2005 (we didn't play in a CL in 2004)
2. further, 3 seasons in 4 years without CL semis (Neymar's era 2014-2017) didn't happen since 1998 till today
3. further, Messi, since he emerged in 2006, never had as poor run in a CL as now, until we got Neymar
2006: WINNERS
2007: 1/8
2008: 1/2
2009: WINNERS
2010: 1/2
2011: WINNERS
2012: 1/2
2013: 1/2
-------------- Neymar's time:
2014: 1/4
2015: WINNERS
2016: 1/4
2017: 1/4

Barca before Neymar had 7 semis in 8 seasons.
And now suddenly, with him, we had 1 semis in 4 seasons. Interesting.

In La liga, Barca didn't have such low number of points since Rijkaard:
2009: 87 points
2010: 99
2011: 96
2012: 91
2013: 100
= average 94,6 points
Neymar's Barca:
2014: 87
2015: 94
2016: 91
2017: max 90** this season (if we win all matches)
= average 90,5 points (if we'll win all matches this season)

So, to some extent, what is exactly Neymar and MSN in general, bringing to Barca, except a strong attack (but only on paper)?
1. is Neymar having good individual stats (goals and assists)?
= not exactly
2. is he playing extremely well inspite of having poor individual stats?
= not exactly.
In 4 years at Barca, he played well for 6 Months in his 2nd season, 6 Months in his 3rd season, and 2 Months in this season.
3. is a team winning more trophies since he came?
= not exactly
4. is a team scoring more goals since he came?
= more or less, not. We score the same
5. is a team playing more beautiful since he came?
= not exactly. Even though we have more circus tricks and dribbles, which don't lead to anything meaningful in the end
6. is a team playing more fluid with him on a field?
= not at all
7. is a team having weaker results when he is not on a field?
= not exactly. In fact, this season we have better results without him in a team (10 wins in 12 matches).
8. is a team playing uglier or less fluid when he is not on a field?
= not at all. Quite the opposite

It is easy to blame Lucho and midfield for everything.

Pros which he brings to a team (some dribbles, some awesome assists) are during a majority of his Barca's career outweight by cons (his style of play doesn't fit us, his horrible finishing, his behavior, red cards, fights with the opponents, hogging the ball and killing our actions).

As time goes by, I have a feeling that we would have 5-10 points more with any decent winger in our team instead of Neymar (for example, Pedro).
Someone who wouldn't kill our style and system.

I won't even mention world class wingers like Hazard, Griezmann, Dybala, Reus etc.

 

[Potroh]

The problem is that kind of a player isn't helping too much to Barca.

Of course he doesn't help much... Munir was way better being a team player, Paco's passes and imagination is superior again, or almost anyone could be better in his place (good old Pedro in your wise example)... That's what you wanna suggest, don't you?

As in every matter on this planet, there is a rather short sighted local or locality view on a single player and his usefulness to the beloved team.
Thank the almighty that there's also the global or international viewpoint, where there are a few hundred million football fans, who eagerly await to see Neymar or a similar rare caliber and try to enjoy the amazing talent and aesthetics he represents.
So no doubt, you and the similar local-tactical-heroes are the minority, and there exist at least a couple of hundred million 'fans' with a slightly broader view.

But don't worry! Messi is 30, Iniesta is 32, Neymar will leave sooner or later and you will be extremely happy to dry your over-teared trusted handkerchief after a local game won with the mediocre giants you wish to play for your favorite team...

 

[gasgas]

Give him an excellent midfield like Busquets Verratti and Roberto and we will have him receiving the ball and dribbling closest to the box where he is effective instead of him playing LWB as he is now

Neymar will always dribble, but it's different when you are dribbling at the half way line, compared to dribbling closer to goal.

His dribbling is something we can use closer to goal and it can win us trebles

 

[Devils]

The team, and especially Neymar needs a new dynamic. Hopefully the new coach will be able to bring that.

Much like most of the team, since the start of 2016, Neymar's level of play has eroded under Lucho. Still a world class player, but he isn't anywhere near his 2015 level which is what we need to bring out in him again.

 

[BarcaOG]

In a recent tv broadcast Rio Ferdinand and Paul Scholes (now pundits) talked about how, when CR moved to Manchester, they had to 'tackle the entertainment out of him' to teach him to produce more and seek to entertain less. Is that what Neymar needs? (the tackling is figurative. I mean coaching and mentoring).

 

[Sultan]

But, it seems that Neymar plays EXACTLY the same for Brasil.
He goes deep, hogs the balls, dribbles past 5 players.
That's just who he is, regardless of in which team he plays.
Unless if a Brasilian coach is as dumb as Lucho?

The problem is that kind of a player isn't helping too much to Barca.
Neymar in Brasil, doing all the same things:

One more time, with the way how he plays, midfield can't do anything.
Once you pass the ball to Neymar, the action is gone.
It will end either as a goal, or as a fail dribble or as a foul.
Midfielders won't "see" the ball anymore.

1. Barca didn't manage to NOT reach CL semis twice in a row since 2003 and 2005 (we didn't play in a CL in 2004)
2. further, 3 seasons in 4 years without CL semis (Neymar's era 2014-2017) didn't happen since 1998 till today
3. further, Messi, since he emerged in 2006, never had as poor run in a CL as now, until we got Neymar
2006: WINNERS
2007: 1/8
2008: 1/2
2009: WINNERS
2010: 1/2
2011: WINNERS
2012: 1/2
2013: 1/2
-------------- Neymar's time:
2014: 1/4
2015: WINNERS
2016: 1/4
2017: 1/4

Barca before Neymar had 7 semis in 8 seasons.
And now suddenly, with him, we had 1 semis in 4 seasons. Interesting.

In La liga, Barca didn't have such low number of points since Rijkaard:
2009: 87 points
2010: 99
2011: 96
2012: 91
2013: 100
= average 94,6 points
Neymar's Barca:
2014: 87
2015: 94
2016: 91
2017: max 90** this season (if we win all matches)
= average 90,5 points (if we'll win all matches this season)

So, to some extent, what is exactly Neymar and MSN in general, bringing to Barca, except a strong attack (but only on paper)?
1. is Neymar having good individual stats (goals and assists)?
= not exactly
2. is he playing extremely well inspite of having poor individual stats?
= not exactly.
In 4 years at Barca, he played well for 6 Months in his 2nd season, 6 Months in his 3rd season, and 2 Months in this season.
3. is a team winning more trophies since he came?
= not exactly
4. is a team scoring more goals since he came?
= more or less, not. We score the same
5. is a team playing more beautiful since he came?
= not exactly. Even though we have more circus tricks and dribbles, which don't lead to anything meaningful in the end
6. is a team playing more fluid with him on a field?
= not at all
7. is a team having weaker results when he is not on a field?
= not exactly. In fact, this season we have better results without him in a team (10 wins in 12 matches).
8. is a team playing uglier or less fluid when he is not on a field?
= not at all. Quite the opposite

It is easy to blame Lucho and midfield for everything.

Pros which he brings to a team (some dribbles, some awesome assists) are during a majority of his Barca's career outweight by cons (his style of play doesn't fit us, his horrible finishing, his behavior, red cards, fights with the opponents, hogging the ball and killing our actions).

As time goes by, I have a feeling that we would have 5-10 points more with any decent winger in our team instead of Neymar (for example, Pedro).
Someone who wouldn't kill our style and system.

I won't even mention world class wingers like Hazard, Griezmann, Dybala, Reus etc.

Post hoc ergo propter hoc

 

[FinBarcelonafan]

In a recent tv broadcast Rio Ferdinand and Paul Scholes (now pundits) talked about how, when CR moved to Manchester, they had to 'tackle the entertainment out of him' to teach him to produce more and seek to entertain less. Is that what Neymar needs? (the tackling is figurative. I mean coaching and mentoring).

Ronaldo still does his useless step overs. Haha. It's good entertainment, though. His dribbling.

But maybe you're right about that. Look at Messi, the guy does everything so he can either pass a goal or score a goal. Neymar does these tricks to entertain, which is nice, but at the end it might not be the most effective play most of the time. Messi is who he should be studying.