Neymar Jr. - v5

[ATLBarcaFan]

This board is filled with some serious malcontents, what fan base in their right mind would want to sell one of the best players in the world, other than this one of course. It makes no sense at all.

 

[dakt]

Very inconsistent this season. Had he been better or on 100 million euros level, we would have probably snatched la liga.
Will new manager help his game is something we can only speculate, but will probably witness in the next season.

 

[dakt]

This board is filled with some serious malcontents, what fan base in their right mind would want to sell one of the best players in the world, other than this one of course. It makes no sense at all.

Who wants to sell him?

 

[JamDav1982]

Second best player this season probably. No one bar Messi put in as many good performances consistently.

If more players could create as much as him Barca probably win La Liga.

 

[BBZ8800]

People seem to forget the fact that Neymar has played the majority of his career under Enrique. A coach who has shown that he is not tactically astute and one who has destroyed the squad by buying a ton of unnecessary players. A coach who refused to sign a right back in the summer even when he knew that the team needed one.

Rakitic played his whole Barca's career under Enrique.
But we decided that he is not good enough (Rakitic).
Gomes played his whole Barca's career under Enrique.
We decided that he is not good enough.
Denis, Munir, Suarez.

More or less, sometimes when reading Neymar's thread, I get a feeling that people will more or less write one day:
1. we don't have Pep. This is why Neymar can't shine perfectly
2. we don't have prime Xavi and Iniesta and this is why Neymar is poor

Wake up, guys. Barca existed before Pep, Xavi and Iniesta.
We had lots of world class players who played world class without Pep, Xavi and Iniesta (R9, Rivaldo, Ronaldinho, for example).
They also had a fair share of donkeys playing with them and sometimes horrible coaches.

So, what some of you are trying to say is: Neymar needs an absolutely perfect environment (coaches, teammates, system) in order to shine. If something is not perfect, a poor guy can't play good.

Lol.

Ronaldinho played with donkeys like Saviola, granny Lucho, granny Cocu and similar in his first season here.
And had a one-man-show season, with way higher influence on field, on stats and on actual results than Neymar ever had.

Anyway, let's move further.

Individual consistency and team performance are not mutually exclusive. Hazards performance for Chelsea last season is a prime example of how a broken team can affect the best individuals within the team.

This excuse with Hazard is getting funny.

A few questions:
how many seasons in a row Hazard sucked or played way below his potential when he played in a top club?
Can he match Neymar's 3 poor (below his potential) seasons out of 4 seasons in Barca?
He can't.
Not a single top player in the world can't match a level of Neymar's inconsistency.

But ok. It is because of Lucho, poor Xavi and Iniesta.
While, as Torn replied, Hazard probably plays with 10 Messis on the field around him, right?

For the most part, Neymar has had to play in a broken system. This Barcelona side does not even have a midfield! There is no clear passing network or structure in place. Everything that happens on the field is merely spontaneous and as a result of individual brilliance.

Again, have you watched Barca in 2001-2005 and with which donkeys Rivaldo and Ronaldinho had to play, and yet they managed to have way better seasons than Neymar, inspite of donkeys around them?
How is that possible then?
Ronaldinho had Rafael Marquez as a CDM in 2004/05 in midfield.
Mascherano and Andre Gomes are goats compared in playmaking skills with a defender Marquez.

The most crucial years of Neymar’s Barcelona career has been spent playing under clueless management.

This is beyond crazy, mate.
Neymar played with fckng Messi, come on.
We had the biggest cheating codes in a history of sport (Messi).

Rivaldo had to play with Saviola, Dutruel, Bonano, Christanval, Fabio Rochembak and similar and guided our team to CL semis.
Poor guy Ney and his team managed to not get into semis 3 times in Ney's 4 years here.
And he had MESSI around him.
You really need to try extremely hard to suck so hard with Messi in your team.

Your ever repeated notion just brings two questions:
1. What is a weaker but more consistent player? Because for me (specially in comparison with a Neymar caliber) it means mediocrity. You have said not too long ago that Pedro would be better again in that post. I did like Pedro by the way, but comparing him to Neymar is like comparing techno to Mozart.
Why do you permanently have the urge to adjust the team for "official" mediocrity???

2. The MSN scored more goals this season than 85% of other Spanish teams altogether and there is a reason behind that. Are you sure that dismantling a rare and definitely historical trio like that is the solution to the problems you see? Scoring 112 goals so far doesn't tell you that the problem is NOT with the MSN but somewhere behind them???

You said that you are not Barca's fan, but a fan of nice football.
So, you don't care about results.
All you care about is an attacking match, some nice moves, dribbles, tricks, fun.

If Barca finishes 2nd, but plays beautiful and with a lot of tricks, you'll be satisfied.
I could survive with less tricks and trade it for titles. I am not saying that we should play with zero tricks, but you can't live on tricks.

 

[Potroh]

You said that you are not Barca's fan, but a fan of nice football.
So, you don't care about results.
All you care about is an attacking match, some nice moves, dribbles, tricks, fun.

No need to get personal in order to aid your agenda.
If I weren't a Barca fan I wouldn't be here listening & answering to posts like yours.

Otherwise, if you insist and try to compare quality football (nice moves, dribbles, tricks, fun) with a result-oriented and single-sided point of view, you are in the wrong track. Quality play and results often go hand in hand, whereas there are teams winning important trophies with uninteresting and often rough or violent anti-football, which all fans should dislike, regardless the resulted trophies.
If you ONLY care for results, then you are the type of fan who is absolutely out of my scope, mainly because these over-biased spectators rarely see the game itself, specially that their eyes are covered by the flags they flaunt.

If Barca finishes 2nd, but plays beautiful and with a lot of tricks, you'll be satisfied.
I could survive with less tricks and trade it for titles. I am not saying that we should play with zero tricks, but you can't live on tricks.

I'd be glad if the team won the Liga. But I'd be sad if titles were won by mediocre play, mere luck, over-defensive play and the like. I've seen thousands of games in my life, knew a lot of international players who won those titles by playing nothing special, so forgive me if I also care for the game itself and outstanding world-class talents such as Neymar.
I've played 60+ games for my national team as a footballer, so forgive me but I'm the potential one who is able to see the game itself, whereas the mere result-oriented fans care for nothing but those results, which are anyway rapidly forgotten - if they are not paired with outstanding play as well.

BTW, you keep on repeating that Neymar had 3 bad seasons, which is not at all true - apart from your own agenda...

 

[DonAK]

[MENTION=16942]BBZ8800[/MENTION]

You said last year that you hoped Neymar proved you right and that he flopped.

Not sure why you're going off at Potroh for supposedly not being a Barca fan when you kind of wished a Barca player failed, which obviously not only effects that individual player, but the club and team itself too.

 

[te amo barca]

Rakitic played his whole Barca's career under Enrique.
But we decided that he is not good enough (Rakitic).
Gomes played his whole Barca's career under Enrique.
We decided that he is not good enough.
Denis, Munir, Suarez.

More or less, sometimes when reading Neymar's thread, I get a feeling that people will more or less write one day:
1. we don't have Pep. This is why Neymar can't shine perfectly
2. we don't have prime Xavi and Iniesta and this is why Neymar is poor

Wake up, guys. Barca existed before Pep, Xavi and Iniesta.
We had lots of world class players who played world class without Pep, Xavi and Iniesta (R9, Rivaldo, Ronaldinho, for example).
They also had a fair share of donkeys playing with them and sometimes horrible coaches.

So, what some of you are trying to say is: Neymar needs an absolutely perfect environment (coaches, teammates, system) in order to shine. If something is not perfect, a poor guy can't play good.

Lol.

Ronaldinho played with donkeys like Saviola, granny Lucho, granny Cocu and similar in his first season here.
And had a one-man-show season, with way higher influence on field, on stats and on actual results than Neymar ever had.

Anyway, let's move further.



This excuse with Hazard is getting funny.

A few questions:
how many seasons in a row Hazard sucked or played way below his potential when he played in a top club?
Can he match Neymar's 3 poor (below his potential) seasons out of 4 seasons in Barca?
He can't.
Not a single top player in the world can't match a level of Neymar's inconsistency.

But ok. It is because of Lucho, poor Xavi and Iniesta.
While, as Torn replied, Hazard probably plays with 10 Messis on the field around him, right?



Again, have you watched Barca in 2001-2005 and with which donkeys Rivaldo and Ronaldinho had to play, and yet they managed to have way better seasons than Neymar, inspite of donkeys around them?
How is that possible then?
Ronaldinho had Rafael Marquez as a CDM in 2004/05 in midfield.
Mascherano and Andre Gomes are goats compared in playmaking skills with a defender Marquez.



This is beyond crazy, mate.
Neymar played with fckng Messi, come on.
We had the biggest cheating codes in a history of sport (Messi).

Rivaldo had to play with Saviola, Dutruel, Bonano, Christanval, Fabio Rochembak and similar and guided our team to CL semis.
Poor guy Ney and his team managed to not get into semis 3 times in Ney's 4 years here.
And he had MESSI around him.
You really need to try extremely hard to suck so hard with Messi in your team.



You said that you are not Barca's fan, but a fan of nice football.
So, you don't care about results.
All you care about is an attacking match, some nice moves, dribbles, tricks, fun.

If Barca finishes 2nd, but plays beautiful and with a lot of tricks, you'll be satisfied.
I could survive with less tricks and trade it for titles. I am not saying that we should play with zero tricks, but you can't live on tricks.

If the results are all you care about, I suggest rooting for a different team. Football is primarily about the joy of playing in a beautiful way and Neymar is the embodiment of that.

 

[God Serena]

Potroh himself said he isn't a Barca fan. There is no "Supposedly" as DonAK suggests and Potroh deflecting BBZ pointing out this fact by implying he actually is a fan just by being here is intellectually dishonest. BBZ isn't the only person who remembers Potroh saying this:

My mirror says two things:
- If some of my post were emotional they were not that because of my biassed thoughts on xyz player, but rather because of the extreme ignorance of some folks here understanding this game.
- I'm not even a real Barca fan, I started watching Barca games due to the MSN, and it is entirely possible that when Messi leaves or quits and Neymar will be playing elsewhere, I will not be close to this team anymore. As an ex professional player and coach (also as an old fart) I just love nice, creative, aesthetic, playful and joyful football and that led me to this team.
If this team played the game as successfully as Athletico does - and at the same time as ugly as they do it - I'd definitely wouldn't give a shit for the team... and wouldn't argue here with some interesting characters...

So yes, BBZ's point about Potroh not caring about our results and trophies as much as his precious MSN is bang on accurate.

The case remains that despite Neymar being "World class", I'd rather see a player play half as well as him, if he was able to do it more consistently. Neymar having a good game here and there where he shows his world class potential makes people forget about him underperforming on a huge level. Just look at his goal tally now compared to the treble season. There was a time when MSN were unstoppable and Neymar was right there with it. Now? We drop points and lose games constantly and until last weekend he had less goals than Sandro. It seemed like for the longest time Neymar couldn't find the net no matter what happened. I don't care how world class he may or may not be, those numbers are replaceable. I'm not sure why everyone is so happily eager to talk about players "Not fitting our style" when Neymar himself is the most pure contradiction to the Barca style of play imaginable. Standing on the ball, over dribbling, losing possession constantly, etc. are not how you'd typically expect a Barca player to play and when we see a potential forward signing play that way we immediately rule him out, although with Neymar very few people seem to take exception to that. He lost the ball nearly 50 times against Juventus when we tied 0-0. But if we sell him our attack will be doomed. Right.

 

[JamDav1982]

All BBZ ever does is bend 'facts' back to the days of Rijkaard to suit his argument.

Constantly spouts rubbish like three good games in 18 months when in last two last two games alone has been one Barcas best in a number before that.

Neymar has been Barcas second best player this season and has had some shit games but only Messi has had more good games. Only Ney/Messi have had games when they have been out of this world and carried the team on their backs as well.

Great player and there is literally nothing he can do for likes of BBZ to like him. He actively wants him to fail to be proven right. Thankfully he hasnt been.

 

[DonAK]

Here we are again.

Well, we'll magically turn awesome against if we replace Neymar with I don't know.....let's say Victor Moses, if he can perform consistently.

AmIRight?

Because Neymar is the reason for all our failures which @BBZ8800 imply or straight out says all the time.

Some just love to complain about every thing and find a scapegoat they can put all the blame on. I can bring up posts from the Pedro thread where people bashed him even when he played well.

In fact, forget that, just go to the Alexis thread where @BBZ8800 claimed we didn't and couldn't win the CL because we had Alexis in our team. He quickly moved on from Alexis to Neymar as his next scapegoat for everything

How more irrational can you get

 

[JamDav1982]

Potroh himself said he isn't a Barca fan. There is no "Supposedly" as DonAK suggests and Potroh deflecting BBZ pointing out this fact by implying he actually is a fan just by being here is intellectually dishonest. BBZ isn't the only person who remembers Potroh saying this:



So yes, BBZ's point about Potroh not caring about our results and trophies as much as his precious MSN is bang on accurate.

The case remains that despite Neymar being "World class", I'd rather see a player play half as well as him, if he was able to do it more consistently. Neymar having a good game here and there where he shows his world class potential makes people forget about him underperforming on a huge level. Just look at his goal tally now compared to the treble season. There was a time when MSN were unstoppable and Neymar was right there with it. Now? We drop points and lose games constantly and until last weekend he had less goals than Sandro. It seemed like for the longest time Neymar couldn't find the net no matter what happened. I don't care how world class he may or may not be, those numbers are replaceable. I'm not sure why everyone is so happily eager to talk about players "Not fitting our style" when Neymar himself is the most pure contradiction to the Barca style of play imaginable. Standing on the ball, over dribbling, losing possession constantly, etc. are not how you'd typically expect a Barca player to play and when we see a potential forward signing play that way we immediately rule him out, although with Neymar very few people seem to take exception to that. He lost the ball nearly 50 times against Juventus when we tied 0-0. But if we sell him our attack will be doomed. Right.

Even when Neymar scored those goals in the treble season BBZ said it is an easy era and wouldnt give much credit and all he did was go on about his passing as we have Messi and Suarez to score but need more creators.

Now he is creating more chances than anyone in the league and still scoring more goals than most wide men have at Barca in recent years. It is all about him not scoring as many as he did in treble season.

BBZ is like a caricature of himself these days when it comes to Neymar.

 

[God Serena]

Even when Neymar scored those goals in the treble season BBZ said it is an easy era and wouldnt give much credit and all he did was go on about his passing as we have Messi and Suarez to score but need more creators.

Now he is creating more chances than anyone in the league and still scoring more goals than most wide men have at Barca in recent years. It is all about him not scoring as many as he did in treble season.

BBZ is like a caricature of himself these days when it comes to Neymar.

There's no denying BBZ has a possibly unhealthy dislike of Neymar and he is very much prone to stretching out bad performances to suit his agenda, but he's just one side of the coin, the other side is the one which suggests we are nothing without Neymar. Someone a few pages ago implied our attack would actually be useless without Neymar because we'd "Only" have "Uncle" Messi and Suarez. Like really, give me a break.

 

[KingMessi]

That's a straw man. They never said that our attack would be nothing without Neymar, only that Neymar is who we'd have left of the trio in a few years when Messi and Suarez are too old to lead the line.

 

[DonAK]

There's no denying BBZ has a possibly unhealthy dislike of Neymar and he is very much prone to stretching out bad performances to suit his agenda, but he's just one side of the coin, the other side is the one which suggests we are nothing without Neymar. Someone a few pages ago implied our attack would actually be useless without Neymar because we'd "Only" have "Uncle" Messi and Suarez. Like really, give me a break.

This is what really throws me off all the time.

Go and quote his post and argue him to death.

Why do you bring up this argument against other people who had nothing to do with that comment, or said anything like that?

It makes no sense.
@BBZ8800: Neymar is the reason we're not winning

Me: That is not true

Someone else: But LeBronLover321 said that Neymar is the GOAT

Fuck him then, what does that got to do with me or anyone else?