Neymar Jr. - v5

[BBZ8800]

That's just not true come on he's not andre gomes. They mark him attentively, just from a safe distance. No one wants to get sat on their ass like someone said, and i've always been one to agree with him needing to improve his efficiency and end result, but you cannot deny he's uncontainable when he faces off against defenders. There's nothing they can do to stop him getting past them, too explosive, too much skill, too unpredictable. Messi was the same way when he was this age, except he backed up with 50+ goals and a ton of assist but he's Messi ffs.

Imo, he is holding a world record in terms of stopping and killing the flow.
I posted this a few weeks ago, and now when you posted your post, I wanted to post his match against Monchengladbach when there was no Messi on a field.
And while I was watching a video, I started to count again (I can't resist that urge) how many times he killed/ruined actions or the action is just dead once he receives the ball (foul, shot on goal, fight).

Action 1: a good pass
Action 2: loses the ball, end of an action
Action 3: poor shot on goal, end of an action
Action 4: loses the ball, end of an action
Action 5: great through ball
Action 6: fouled, action stopped
Action 7: fouled, action stopped
Action 8: lost the ball, end of an action
Action 9: lost the ball, end of an action
Action 10: a bad pass, end of an action
-- gets the ball back a few seconds later, only to lose it again
Action 11: poor long pass, end of an action
Action 12: foul/throw in, a flow killed one more time
Action 13: a poor 1-2, he lost the ball, but the ball luckily gets back to our player
-- only for him to lose the ball one more time a few seconds later (or he was offside)
Action 14: a good run and a pass. He didn't kill the action (omg!!)
Action 15: assist for Arda's goal
Action 16: a simple pass
Action 17: dribbles past 3, loses the ball
Action 18: a bad pass, end of an action again
Action 19: didn't lose the ball (omg!!)
Action 20: I don't have words to even explain what he is doing. End of an action again
Action 21: If I had no words in a previous action, I don't know what to add on this one. A tragedy, end of an action, as always. Killer of every action
Action 22: a bad cross, end of an action

On the other hand, I tried to count dribbles in these actions:
He had around 5-6 successful dribbles in this match.
So, on the other hand, someone could say: he had 5-6 dribbles in the match, he was trying all the time and he was our key man. He had a key assist for Arda and one more awesome through ball.

On the other hand, he had:
6 good passes
12 lost balls
1 poor shot attempt
Fouled 3 times

In short, from 22 times when he got the ball, the action was dead around 3-5 seconds later on 16 occassions.
Also, out of 22 times when he received a pass, NONE Barca's player touched the ball after him in 16 occassions.

So, once again, when you give the ball to Neymar, the action is dead.
He will lose the ball, get fouled, try a weak shot on goal, or in 30% of actions=he will pass the ball or create something.

People will say again: but he is trying to create things blah blah blah. Nobody else can do that.
Well, with his success rate, please Neymar, don't try to create anything anymore.

A guy is probably the least effective creator in a modern history of football with the highest amount ever of lost balls, missed chances, and killed actions for our team.

Remember, Barca's game made sense during Pep and during Tito, when we didn't have Neymar.
When Tata and Lucho came, we still had Messi, Xavi, Iniesta, Busi and Alves.
But we got "the best gift ever, Neymar", and since then our game turned into a way more chaotic, right?

Ok, Xavi and Iniesta declined.
Ok, Tata and Lucho are not Pep.
But Neymar alone and his style of play are one EXTREMELY big factor why Barca plays chaotic football in the last few years.

How on Earth can you play controlled and possession football with this guy on a field?
You can keep the ball and play 50 passes in a row, and then you will give the ball to Neymar, he will dribble past 3 defenders and lose the ball.

Guy is insanely horrible fit for our team and for our phylosophy of football.
But Barto and guys will never understand that.

Also, imagine if Real bought Neymar in 2013.
There is no chance that they would win 3 CLs in 4 years with Neymar/turnover machine.
RM dodged the deadliest bullet ever and turned into a best team in the world.

On the other hand, we have a guy who's fans on our forum are counting how many dribbles he had, how scared are opponents of his dribbles etc.

So, we have scared opponents, the highest number of successful dribbles and the highest number of ruined actions.
RM has 3 CLs in 4 years.

Nobody can dribble like Neymar.
But 99% of other guys can keep the ball better than Neymar

 

[DonAK]

They try to contain Messi because he's the most dangerous player on the team, someone who actually manages to convert most of his actions into something meaningful for the team unlike S & N.

 

[putogusiluz8]

So you think RM 3 champions league trophies in 4 seasons is Neymar's fault?

 

[CatalinR10]

So you think RM 3 champions league trophies in 4 seasons is Neymar's fault?

of course he does , lol

 

[DonAK]

BBZ makes some good points, but then manages to ruin everything with drivel like that.

However it's now or never for Neymar. He need to grow the fuck up.

 

[JamDav1982]

3 CL in 4 years prove that peak Xavi and Iniesta were the real reason Barca were so dominant and not Messi as so many used to claim?

2 CL in 3 years since Suarez arrived his fault?

So many wrong conculsions to be drawn from that.

Neymar has been one of Barcas top performers in the CL. It is no more his fault than Messis that Real have won 3 of last 4.

 

[clemente]

Imo, he is holding a world record in terms of stopping and killing the flow.
I posted this a few weeks ago, and now when you posted your post, I wanted to post his match against Monchengladbach when there was no Messi on a field.
And while I was watching a video, I started to count again (I can't resist that urge) how many times he killed/ruined actions or the action is just dead once he receives the ball (foul, shot on goal, fight).

Action 1: a good pass
Action 2: loses the ball, end of an action
Action 3: poor shot on goal, end of an action
Action 4: loses the ball, end of an action
Action 5: great through ball
Action 6: fouled, action stopped
Action 7: fouled, action stopped
Action 8: lost the ball, end of an action
Action 9: lost the ball, end of an action
Action 10: a bad pass, end of an action
-- gets the ball back a few seconds later, only to lose it again
Action 11: poor long pass, end of an action
Action 12: foul/throw in, a flow killed one more time
Action 13: a poor 1-2, he lost the ball, but the ball luckily gets back to our player
-- only for him to lose the ball one more time a few seconds later (or he was offside)
Action 14: a good run and a pass. He didn't kill the action (omg!!)
Action 15: assist for Arda's goal
Action 16: a simple pass
Action 17: dribbles past 3, loses the ball
Action 18: a bad pass, end of an action again
Action 19: didn't lose the ball (omg!!)
Action 20: I don't have words to even explain what he is doing. End of an action again
Action 21: If I had no words in a previous action, I don't know what to add on this one. A tragedy, end of an action, as always. Killer of every action
Action 22: a bad cross, end of an action

On the other hand, I tried to count dribbles in these actions:
He had around 5-6 successful dribbles in this match.
So, on the other hand, someone could say: he had 5-6 dribbles in the match, he was trying all the time and he was our key man. He had a key assist for Arda and one more awesome through ball.

On the other hand, he had:
6 good passes
12 lost balls
1 poor shot attempt
Fouled 3 times

In short, from 22 times when he got the ball, the action was dead around 3-5 seconds later on 16 occassions.
Also, out of 22 times when he received a pass, NONE Barca's player touched the ball after him in 16 occassions.

So, once again, when you give the ball to Neymar, the action is dead.
He will lose the ball, get fouled, try a weak shot on goal, or in 30% of actions=he will pass the ball or create something.

People will say again: but he is trying to create things blah blah blah. Nobody else can do that.
Well, with his success rate, please Neymar, don't try to create anything anymore.

A guy is probably the least effective creator in a modern history of football with the highest amount ever of lost balls, missed chances, and killed actions for our team.

Remember, Barca's game made sense during Pep and during Tito, when we didn't have Neymar.
When Tata and Lucho came, we still had Messi, Xavi, Iniesta, Busi and Alves.
But we got "the best gift ever, Neymar", and since then our game turned into a way more chaotic, right?

Ok, Xavi and Iniesta declined.
Ok, Tata and Lucho are not Pep.
But Neymar alone and his style of play are one EXTREMELY big factor why Barca plays chaotic football in the last few years.

How on Earth can you play controlled and possession football with this guy on a field?
You can keep the ball and play 50 passes in a row, and then you will give the ball to Neymar, he will dribble past 3 defenders and lose the ball.

Guy is insanely horrible fit for our team and for our phylosophy of football.
But Barto and guys will never understand that.

Also, imagine if Real bought Neymar in 2013.
There is no chance that they would win 3 CLs in 4 years with Neymar/turnover machine.
RM dodged the deadliest bullet ever and turned into a best team in the world.

On the other hand, we have a guy who's fans on our forum are counting how many dribbles he had, how scared are opponents of his dribbles etc.

So, we have scared opponents, the highest number of successful dribbles and the highest number of ruined actions.
RM has 3 CLs in 4 years.

Nobody can dribble like Neymar.
But 99% of other guys can keep the ball better than Neymar

You realize that his job is to go for these decisions where he will probably lose the ball? He is not a center back

 

[JamDav1982]

BBZ makes things up to suit.

My personal favourite was when tried to claim had been shit this year and only three good games then posted stats to show he was voted MOTM in close to every second game he claimed he was so bad.

A guy is probably the least effective creator in a modern history of football with the highest amount ever of lost balls, missed chances, and killed actions for our team.

He actually created more goal scoring chances than any other player in the team but dont let the truth get in the way.

Makes me happy that BBZ cant enjoy Neymar play.

 

[putogusiluz8]

BBZ makes some good points, but then manages to ruin everything with drivel like that.

However it's now or never for Neymar. He need to grow the fuck up.

Absolutely, and he doesn't necessarily have to disect every touch he has in a game to make me understand Neymar slows down our game and is incredibly frustrating with his end product. I've voiced that opinion here before, my point was simply because of his age, being at the pinnacle of his physical prowess he is the most dangerous dribbler in the world now, just absolutely uncontainable in 1v1 situations. Does he make the most of it, no he doesn't and it's a shame because if he would to combine his skills with a great end product and a more conservative, intelligent approach to the game he'd be a serious ballon d'or candidate. Like someone already said there's a reason he was a finalist in 2015, and during the time i thought it would only be a matter of a season or two before he'd win it himself but he's just not consistent and as serious as he needs to be.

Now i would not take as far as to say he is a hindrance to the team winning, that's just too much. He's clearly still a plus to me, and a big one. Just needs to learn to play the game with more prudence.

 

[JamDav1982]

To get best of Neymar need to stretch the pitch with either Messi or another RW as the way it was last season with slow midfield and Messi coming central made it too easy for teams to go narrow and shut off Ney, Messi and Suarez. Particularly in the bigger games.

Neymar is frustrating when not getting enough of ball in good areas and tries to do too much when gets it and doubled up. Just as Messi gets frustrated he comes too central looking for ball and tries to many risky passes/dribbles and Suarez when he gets frustrated his touch completely goes to fuck.

Dont think any of MSN looked particularly happy in a lot of the games last season and all of them got frustrated and it stems from a fucking shit midfield who couldnt support them properly.

 

[gasgas]

Don't mind [MENTION=16942]BBZ8800[/MENTION].
He's only bearable in the Relationship thread

 

[BBZ8800]

You realize that his job is to go for these decisions where he will probably lose the ball? He is not a center back

I do.
Just look at our wingers in the last 15 years.
None of them was such a killer of our own team as Neymar.

Ronaldino: efficient and smart.
He was creating and losing balls. But he was way more influental in end product than Neymar and he was losing less balls than Neymar.
Not to mention that he wasn't fouled all the time (people will say that it is not Neymar's fault. Well, he falls down quite easily, way easier than all our wingers in the last 15 years. Then, he forces lots of fouls with his style of play of hogging the ball for too long, dribbling backwards and that thing when he stops, turns his back and waits until openents kick him. And finally, we have his delightful personality which creates that 90% of opponents, and our fans lol, want to kick him, lol). So, he is guilty to some extent why he is fouled as often as he is.
Guily, not that good player, but a nice team player. More efficient than current Neymar, wasn't forcing fouls, wasn't killing actions.
Again, way weaker player than Neymar, but a team plays differently with a player like him (Pedro style).
Henry. More efficient than Neymar, losing less balls, killing less actions. Not fighting all the time.
When he receives a ball, the action is not dead, as in Neymar's case.
Pedro, wasn't an action killer. Ok, he was far from Neymar's quality, but with Pedro in the team, we could have controlled matches and keep the ball. Unlike with Neymar in the team.
Alexis, well he is too dumb. I won't comment him.
Messi, no need to even explain what he does and how he is not killing the flow and team's actions.

So, you see, we had lots of other wingers, and a job of ALL of them was to dribble, take risk, create assists and score.
Yes, all of them lost some balls.
But can you name one player in the last 15-20 who was losing as many balls as Neymar? (except maybe Alexis).
I can't.

So, an alibi for Neymar how he loses balls because that's how he is supposed to play is not true.
When you sum all of his pros and cons, he is one very average winger for Barca's standards.
And again, the biggest turnover machine in Barca's shirt whom I have watched since 1995-ish till today.

3 CL in 4 years prove that peak Xavi and Iniesta were the real reason Barca were so dominant and not Messi as so many used to claim?

2 CL in 3 years since Suarez arrived his fault?

So many wrong conculsions to be drawn from that.

Neymar has been one of Barcas top performers in the CL. It is no more his fault than Messis that Real have won 3 of last 4.

MSN as a project is quite a large reason why we are in a mess.
At first I hated only Neymar, but lately I don't care too much about Suarez either and about whole MSN crap.

When Real had Galacticos after 2002, they turned into a shit.
Barca turned to a team without superstars back then (Ronaldinho, Etoo and a bunch of not too famous players) and we started to dominate.
We continued with a homegrown team and without too many superstar signings (even though we did have some).

What is funny, when we turned into RM with buying MSN crap=we turned into a poor Real Madrid's team who was always behind us.
Real, even though they have star players, finally have an allround team, and they play even better when they don't have Bale, when they have only Cr7+Benz+Isco.

My point: in a recent 15-20 years in Spanish football, whenever teams had too many star players (individualistic players) in their starting 11, those teams usually failed long term.
And more balanced, allround teams, with less star players, actually dominated (Barca 2005-2006, Pep's Barca, Zidane's Real).

What is worse, I mentioned on other topics, Verratti is the only guy who can save us.
If we don't get him and buy Dembele, we are fckng dead. Dead, dead, dead.
Imagine playing with 4 galactico-attackers in Dembele+Msn.
Our team will be eaten alive long term.

Real is aiming for balance lately, we are aiming for dribblers and individual actions and neglecting midfield and teamplay.

So, in my eyes, MSN is not the answer.
It sounds good on paper, it looks good on youtube, it looks good and fun for neutral fans.
But in terms of trophies, it will probably end bad, the same as in the last 18 Months.

 

[JamDav1982]

Totally disagree with all of that and love watching Neymar who for me is second best player in the team.

Can be frustrating at times but is massively productive and MSN is last reason for team not winning last season. They are by far the strongest part of the team and need to be supported better by midfield in particular.

Ronaldinho was 'way more influential in end product'?

Dont think he was. You have said that before. What is it based on?

Just lies to claim someone who creates more chances than anyone else in the team 'kills so many attacks'.

It is not even close that Neymar is a better wide player than likes of Guily, Henry, Pedro etc were no matter how you try to spin it.

 

[clemente]

These comparisons are just so bad.. They played completely different roles than Neymar, its his job to go for those 1v1's, to provoke fauls, if he wasn't Neymar and playing for Barcelona he would win a yellow card every 5 minutes.

 

[evilhita666]

These comparisons are just so bad.. They played completely different roles than Neymar, its his job to go for those 1v1's, to provoke fauls, if he wasn't Neymar and playing for Barcelona he would win a yellow card every 5 minutes.

It's his job to go 1v1 not 1v5 like he does at the moment, hehehe...