Neymar Jr. - v5

[Giginho75]

i read quicky previous messages, but i'm sure on one point...
neymar is a crack! No discussion!

we can find some aspects or specific moments in the games where he has to improve, to manage better the action, to not exceed in the personal actions...

but anyway he's a great player, too much important for us.

 

[GetIn]

Wasnt the case that every player bar Messi massively underachieved. Neymar had a very good season, so did Suarez overall depsite not being as good as in past. Busi, Umititi and Ter Stegen all had good seasons overall.

He cant shoot? Scoring more goals for Barca than any wide player bar Messi. Check.
He cant pass? Most passes per game in MSN last season and most chances created. Check.
He cant dribble? Most succesful dribbles in the team and from stats on who scored etc he is not massively more losing the ball for those number of dribbles. Check.

He also works as hard and is arguably the fittest player in the squad and doesnt shirk the defensive side of game. All that matters.

Absolutely he has games he is frustrating in and tries too much but what he produces massively outweighs that.

I think you misunderstood me, "What can he not do?" was meant to be a rhetorical question, I was implying that he CAN dribble, pass and shoot very well but struggles to put it all together.

I should be clearer next time, things can get lost very easily in communication online.

 

[JamDav1982]

I think you misunderstood me, "What can he not do?" was meant to be a rhetorical question, I was implying that he CAN dribble, pass and shoot very well but struggles to put it all together.

You said all those things he can do and then seemed to frame it as he cant put together any of those things in games. When he has. That was my point trying to make overall.

Statements like 'no end product' fall flat when his end product is second only really to Messi amongst wide players at Barca in recent times.

 

[GetIn]

You said all those things he can do and then seemed to frame it as he cant put together any of those things in games. When he has. That was my point trying to make overall.

Statements like 'no end product' fall flat when his end product is second only really to Messi amongst wide players at Barca in recent times.

Well of course he has put it all together at times and at others has failed miserably, he is rather inconsistent in that regard. He is a great talent no doubt and all I'm trying to say that he has the talent to become much better than what he is right now, but has failed to do that thus far in his time at Barca bar a few stretches.

20 goals a season in all competitions for a player like him is unacceptable, he should be hitting 35-40 regularly and he can do it if he plays a simpler game, as we saw in 2015.

 

[JamDav1982]

Well of course he has put it all together at times and at others has failed miserably, he is rather inconsistent in that regard. He is a great talent no doubt and all I'm trying to say that he has the talent to become much better than what he is right now, but has failed to do that thus far in his time at Barca bar a few stretches.

20 goals a season in all competitions for a player like him is unacceptable, he should be hitting 35-40 regularly and he can do it if he plays a simpler game, as we saw in 2015.

He should have scored more goals and his finishing was poor at times but 20 goals a season is not poor in comparison to other players. You cant really expect him to be scoring same number of goals as Messi consistently though if not on majority of FKs, penalties and getting 30-40% fewer chances.

Added to that he was creating the most chances and working like fuck even when playing poorly that was a constant.

In my opinion the 2015 Barca was a more balanced side. Messi stayed on the right more and it was functioning better. For Neymar last season he was doubled up on a lot more as Messi came central and teams found it easier to sit narrow. Basically played without a right hand side in a lot of games. That led to Neymar getting the ball in poorer situations that he was double up on a deep narrow defence and he got frustrated and tried to much at times but he also from there created the most chances for team mates.

I think all three of MSN got frustrated. Ney dribbled too much at times, Suarez passing went to fuck and Messi came to central. If there is better balance I think it will be fine again and even then all three of MSN played well overall.

Look at Ney for Brazil in a balanced side that he is the main man in. He is the best player in intl football this past while and plays a very complete game. That is not saying he is better than Messi who has been playing in a mess at Argentina but Ney had been unbelievable for Brazil in a balanced side.

 

[BBZ8800]

Wasnt the case that every player bar Messi massively underachieved. Neymar had a very good season, so did Suarez overall depsite not being as good as in past. Busi, Umititi and Ter Stegen all had good seasons overall.

He cant shoot? Scoring more goals for Barca than any wide player bar Messi. Check.
He cant pass? Most passes per game in MSN last season and most chances created. Check.
He cant dribble? Most succesful dribbles in the team and from stats on who scored etc he is not massively more losing the ball for those number of dribbles. Check.

He also works as hard and is arguably the fittest player in the squad and doesnt shirk the defensive side of game. All that matters.

Absolutely he has games he is frustrating in and tries too much but what he produces massively outweighs that.

You will say that I am manufacturing facts, but the way how you reply is equally the same as:
1. has Barca ever been worse while having Messi? Check
2. Has Barca ever played more chaotic in the last 15-20 years, compared to last 4 years? Check
3. Has RM ever dominated so hard in a CL, before we got this clown? Check
4. when was the last time when Barca managed to get into only one final/semis in 4 years? Long, long time ago...
5. has any Barca's player EVER lost as many balls as him in one season? Check

Maybe we should find a middle ground and agree that he has some awesome stats in terms of dribbles, assists, youtube views, producing magic in which kids are enjoying etc.
On the other hand, he is the most frustarting Barca's player in the last 15-20 years (except Lord Alexis, Lord Gumbau and Lord Douglas, of course).
He is the most inconsistent Barca's player whom I remember, since Kluivert and Quaresma. Name one of our players who was able to produce BallonDOr display one week and play like the biggest garbage ever 7 days later.
He is one of the worst Barca's leaders (and he is supposed to be a leader) due to his hot and cold onfield displays, plus due to his delightful personality.

So, whenever you or some of his lovers post something like: no one can match this or that, he is the best LW, blah blah=that is true.
But majority of what me and some other guys are saying=is also true deep down, even though I am for example exaggerating (Fabio Rochemback, Alexis Sanchez, Neymar are the 3 players who irritated me the most in the last 20+ years of watching Barca and only guys whom I actually want to punch because of a way how they perform in our shirt).

So, some of us are posting only negative things and you get mad.
On the other hand, you post only silly positive things and you don't seem to see Ney's other side.

And, at the end of a day, you MUST look at Ney's other side, because he is the most hot-and-cold or positive/negative guy in our recent history.
Nothing regarding him is simple and nothing regarding him is just black or white.

Jekyll and Hyde to some extent:

A guy has potential.
He can be top3 players in the world.
But in reality, he plays 70% of matches in every season on a level of a 30M winger.

In 48 Months at Barca, he had 12 Months of good form.
And we paid 200-300-500-who knows how many Millions for that shit?

And now Barto is byuing new Brasilians to make Neymar happy, lol?

For the end, a random tricky question: Neymar is single now.
Does that mean that he will party "slightly more than usual" this season?

Oh, fun times are infront of us

 

[JamDav1982]

Barca have been worse due to the midfield being crap mainly.

Neymar has improved his position in the team hugely and is second bet player in the team.

More of your made up stats prove nothing at all.

He is nowhere near as inconsistent as you make out and constantly change the narrative on anyway. Been through this before.

Barcas second best player and going nowhere. Thankfully.

Only clown is you with made up stats. Neyhater.

 

[putogusiluz8]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...r-Neymar-awkward-ex-girlfriend-encounter.html

He is embarrassing, he spends every summer embrassing himself. Maybe we should consider offers this summer. The only thing worser than his goal-conversion rate is his marriage proposal success rate. The stupid hair, every summer I forget how good he is. Sell him and bring dembele and Mbappe

Who cares?

 

[BBZ8800]

Barca have been worse due to the midfield being crap mainly.

That is just your opinion.
This is not maths where you can prove that 2+2 is 4 and if someone claims something else, he is wrong or an idiot.

You think that Barca is bad due to a weaker midfield.
I think, on the other hand, that Barca is bad due to:
1. midfield
2. Lucho
3. older players with drained motivation due to too many titles won during their successful career
4. our system being figured out by opponents over years and we haven't evolved too much
5. not having a plan B
6. short technical players not being good enough for top titles compared to like 5-10 years ago
7. NEYMAR, him being one of our leaders and our game relying too much on a such of a turnover machine as he is
8. MSN
9. RB
10. bad transfers

I don't know whether you will realize, but there is ABSOLUTELY no way how you can prove that my theory is wrong.
On the other hand, I also can't prove it.

We could prove something like this only on a computer with playing 1000 matches against the same opponent WITH Neymar.
Then 1000 matches against the same opponent WITHOUT Neymar.
Then testing possession WITH Neymar in those 1000 matches.
Then testing possession without Neymar.
Then testing how many times we won WITH Neymar.
Then testing how many times we won without Neymar.
Then testing how different is our game WITH and without Neymar over 1000 matches where all other factors ARE EXACTLY the same and we changed only one factor, Neymar.

So, possession would be different.
Our team would play differently (less dribbles, less direct, more possession, more slow build up, not losing as many balls, being fouled and stopped less often).

But, this is real life and we can't test too much. We can only write theories on a forum.

This thing what we are doing (arguing on a forum) is insanely retarded.
You can't prove anything.
I can't prove anything.
You only have a bunch of guys with different theories.
Plus, even if 70% of guys support one theory (pro-Neymar, for example), it again means absolutely nothing.

So, don't take anything as scientific facts like: Barca is weaker ONLY because of Lucho or because of a lack of midfield or a proper RB.
We will never know how a world would looked like if we hadn't bought Neymar and how our play, possession, style, trophycabinet would look today.

Again, we can only post 1000s of random PERSONAL opinions and theories, which are most often extremely hard to prove.

 

[JamDav1982]

Lot of words to say cant prove you are right or I am right.

Yet you state a lot of made up facts based on your hate of Neymar.

I can prove a lot of things you say wrong about Neymars productivity and consistency. Which you change the basis of all the time anyway so doesnt mean much.

You seem to hate Neymar more for being brilliant one game then average/poor the next more than you hate players that are average poor a lot more than that and never as good.

Strange that? No it isnt srange at all I suppose.

 

[Potroh]

You only have a bunch of guys with different theories.

Or as I'd put it: a bunch of guys who are at least aware of the fact that this game has little to nothing to do with "theories".
You mainly need an eye to watch the games, rather than having your own theories, being biased, pre-meditated and emotional - to say the least - but even more importantly: there is a player whom you hate or dislike, which has been mentioned so many times in this forum that it could easily become its emblem...

In your strangely twisted view there are only anti-Neymar (you) and pro-Neymar (everyone else) attitudes, but sooner or later you have to wake up one day realizing that you are quite alone in arguing with yourself and the rest of the world...

 

[Messi983]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...r-Neymar-awkward-ex-girlfriend-encounter.html

He is embarrassing, he spends every summer embrassing himself. Maybe we should consider offers this summer. The only thing worser than his goal-conversion rate is his marriage proposal success rate. The stupid hair, every summer I forget how good he is. Sell him and bring dembele and Mbappe

Lol, that's a new level of hating. Who cares what he does in his free time.

 

[JamDav1982]

Lol, that's a new level of hating. Who cares what he does in his free time.

The article states he was doing some charity work as well but lets all focus on his hair and slight disagreement with ex girl friend.

New low.

 

[Sneer]

That is just your opinion.
This is not maths where you can prove that 2+2 is 4 and if someone claims something else, he is wrong or an idiot.

You think that Barca is bad due to a weaker midfield.
I think, on the other hand, that Barca is bad due to:
1. midfield
2. Lucho
3. older players with drained motivation due to too many titles won during their successful career
4. our system being figured out by opponents over years and we haven't evolved too much
5. not having a plan B
6. short technical players not being good enough for top titles compared to like 5-10 years ago
7. NEYMAR, him being one of our leaders and our game relying too much on a such of a turnover machine as he is
8. MSN
9. RB
10. bad transfers

I don't know whether you will realize, but there is ABSOLUTELY no way how you can prove that my theory is wrong.
On the other hand, I also can't prove it.

We could prove something like this only on a computer with playing 1000 matches against the same opponent WITH Neymar.
Then 1000 matches against the same opponent WITHOUT Neymar.
Then testing possession WITH Neymar in those 1000 matches.
Then testing possession without Neymar.
Then testing how many times we won WITH Neymar.
Then testing how many times we won without Neymar.
Then testing how different is our game WITH and without Neymar over 1000 matches where all other factors ARE EXACTLY the same and we changed only one factor, Neymar.

So, possession would be different.
Our team would play differently (less dribbles, less direct, more possession, more slow build up, not losing as many balls, being fouled and stopped less often).

But, this is real life and we can't test too much. We can only write theories on a forum.

This thing what we are doing (arguing on a forum) is insanely retarded.
You can't prove anything.
I can't prove anything.
You only have a bunch of guys with different theories.
Plus, even if 70% of guys support one theory (pro-Neymar, for example), it again means absolutely nothing.

So, don't take anything as scientific facts like: Barca is weaker ONLY because of Lucho or because of a lack of midfield or a proper RB.
We will never know how a world would looked like if we hadn't bought Neymar and how our play, possession, style, trophycabinet would look today.

Again, we can only post 1000s of random PERSONAL opinions and theories, which are most often extremely hard to prove.

In simpler terms Barca is shit.. . . Is that what you are trying to say, based on your list of problems?

 

[clemente]

That is just your opinion.
This is not maths where you can prove that 2+2 is 4 and if someone claims something else, he is wrong or an idiot.

You think that Barca is bad due to a weaker midfield.
I think, on the other hand, that Barca is bad due to:
1. midfield
2. Lucho
3. older players with drained motivation due to too many titles won during their successful career
4. our system being figured out by opponents over years and we haven't evolved too much
5. not having a plan B
6. short technical players not being good enough for top titles compared to like 5-10 years ago
7. NEYMAR, him being one of our leaders and our game relying too much on a such of a turnover machine as he is
8. MSN
9. RB
10. bad transfers

I don't know whether you will realize, but there is ABSOLUTELY no way how you can prove that my theory is wrong.
On the other hand, I also can't prove it.

We could prove something like this only on a computer with playing 1000 matches against the same opponent WITH Neymar.
Then 1000 matches against the same opponent WITHOUT Neymar.
Then testing possession WITH Neymar in those 1000 matches.
Then testing possession without Neymar.
Then testing how many times we won WITH Neymar.
Then testing how many times we won without Neymar.
Then testing how different is our game WITH and without Neymar over 1000 matches where all other factors ARE EXACTLY the same and we changed only one factor, Neymar.

So, possession would be different.
Our team would play differently (less dribbles, less direct, more possession, more slow build up, not losing as many balls, being fouled and stopped less often).

But, this is real life and we can't test too much. We can only write theories on a forum.

This thing what we are doing (arguing on a forum) is insanely retarded.
You can't prove anything.
I can't prove anything.
You only have a bunch of guys with different theories.
Plus, even if 70% of guys support one theory (pro-Neymar, for example), it again means absolutely nothing.

So, don't take anything as scientific facts like: Barca is weaker ONLY because of Lucho or because of a lack of midfield or a proper RB.
We will never know how a world would looked like if we hadn't bought Neymar and how our play, possession, style, trophycabinet would look today.

Again, we can only post 1000s of random PERSONAL opinions and theories, which are most often extremely hard to prove.

Something to come up with when you have nothing to say to prove your points