Neymar - v2

[Puyol the wall]

Saying the WC doesn't count is just as bad as saying only national football counts.

What about the great players who, for a variety of reasons, never stuck with a club for very long? Don't forget club football is a business and before the 90s talent was much more spread out.

Today because there's such an intense concentration of players in wealthy clubs, it's far easier for players from small countries to be recognized even if they come from a mediocre national team. But that doesn't discount national football completely, especially when the discussion in places like this are very euro-centric.

The WC should be considered but not when comparing players from different NT's,club football gives the players a choice to select the club they want if they are good enough,as for national teams they should continue no matter how bad the team is,that is what happened with players like Best.Can we say Best is not a great player because he never played in a WC.

 

[Kerrybai]

I do think it's fair to say Messi needs to prove more on the national level to be in the GOAT discussion.

Blaming him for Argentina's failings is insanity, if he retired from international football tomorrow it would tarnish his image much. Di Stefano never played in a World Cup and I would argue he's a top 5 player. But the question is still there.

We aren't talking about a Best or a Weah who played with scrubs internationally. Argentina is utterly dysfunctional and imbalanced, but there's talent. I'd like to see Messi stand out more, he has plenty of time left, but while he's rarely been bad for Argentina, but he's never really had his moment of glory either. Even if he never wins the world cup, which I'm afraid is possible with the amount of problems the AFA has, he still needs his classic World Cup story.

It also does stand out that Messi's Barcelona teammates formed the core of a World Cup winning side.

I refuse to ignore international football completely. When all is said and done we remember the World Cup most of all.

Im not discounting international level, but as long as a player peforms well for one or the other then he can be considered amongst the best. As good as Pele was, he is considered the best because of what he did for his NT. In the same respect Messi can be considered the best for what he is doing at Barcelona.

Also the CL has taken precedent now over international football. Interest in international football has declined greatly. I know im not the only person who will remember the 2010 world cup as a very dull tournament. Outside of the Netherlands, Spain and Germany the football on display was very poor. Teams like Greece can win European championships. Teams like Turkey can make it to world cup semi finals. However over the last decade 'weak' clubs have not caused upsets of that magnitude in the CL because the level of football amongst the top clubs is simply too good. Only the best teams with the best players have walked away victorious.

 

[UEFA_Barça_Chris]

I mean I was young so it's easy for me to glorify them but I feel like there was more competition back then.

The past two World Cups were certainly better than the 1990 World Cup though.

best if the 1990 World Cup wasn't even mentioned. It really was a horrible tournament

 

[La Furia]

Im not discounting international level, but as long as a player peforms well for one or the other then he can be considered amongst the best. As good as Pele was, he is considered the best because of what he did for his NT. In the same respect Messi can be considered the best for what he is doing at Barcelona.

Also the CL has taken precedent now over international football. Interest in international football has declined greatly. I know im not the only person who will remember the 2010 world cup as a very dull tournament. Outside of the Netherlands, Spain and Germany the football on display was very poor. Teams like Greece can win European championships. Teams like Turkey can make it to world cup semi finals. However over the last decade 'weak' clubs have not caused upsets of that magnitude in the CL because the level of football amongst the top clubs is simply too good. Only the best teams with the best players have walked away victorious.

A middling Cypriot team made it to the KO stage in the CL this year. On the other hand that "dull" World Cup had some excellent football from Uruguay, Chile, Ghana and Japan. Take off your euro-blinders.

No doubt the highest quality is seen in the rich clubs. They have the money to buy whoever they want, so yes, nothing is going to stop Barcelona, Madrid, Man Utd, Bayern, and so on in brutal consistency.

But some players still play harder for country than club. Some, the other way around. Right now I agree the CL is going to have the best quality players every year.

But I don't know how anyone can complain about the 2010 world cup (which I loved, but to each their own) and then sing the praises of the CL. This years CL has been a dreadful show, some absolutely awful football.

 

[Puyol the wall]

Also the CL has taken precedent now over international football. Interest in international football has declined greatly. I know im not the only person who will remember the 2010 world cup as a very dull tournament. Outside of the Netherlands, Spain and Germany the football on display was very poor. Teams like Greece can win European championships. Teams like Turkey can make it to world cup semi finals. However over the last decade 'weak' clubs have not caused upsets of that magnitude in the CL because the level of football amongst the top clubs is simply too good. Only the best teams with the best players have walked away victorious.

We cannot question the quality on show in the WC,its one of the grandest stages in sport but got to agree that the CL has become more prominent over the years.

 

[Puyol the wall]

A middling Cypriot team made it to the KO stage in the CL this year. On the other hand that "dull" World Cup had some excellent football from Uruguay, Chile, Ghana and Japan. Take off your euro-blinders.

No doubt the highest quality is seen in the rich clubs. They have the money to buy whoever they want, so yes, nothing is going to stop Barcelona, Madrid, Man Utd, Bayern, and so on in brutal consistency.

But some players still play harder for country than club. Some, the other way around. Right now I agree the CL is going to have the best quality players every year.

But I don't know how anyone can complain about the 2010 world cup (which I loved, but to each their own) and then sing the praises of the CL. This years CL has been a dreadful show, some absolutely awful football.

Chelsea are the reason for this,the Real-Bayern game was brilliant and so too were some of the games in the QF and Last 16.

 

[Maria]

I know im not the only person who will remember the 2010 world cup as a very dull tournament. Outside of the Netherlands, Spain and Germany the football on display was very poor.

Uruguay and Chile were more entertaining for me then Netherlands and Spain..especially Spain, that bored me to death and if they wouldn't have had so many players from Barca I probably wouldn't have even watched most of their games..

Chelsea are the reason for this,the Real-Bayern game was brilliant and so too were some of the games in the QF and Last 16.

I wouldn't call that game brilliant..it was a good match, but I've enjoyed more an Athletic-Espanyol, for example.

 

[La Furia]

Uruguay and Chile were more entertaining for me then Netherlands and Spain..especially Spain, that bored me to death and if they wouldn't have had so many players from Barca I probably wouldn't have even watched most of their games..

Spain has gotten progressively worse to watch since Del Bosque took over...too many teams are afraid of them so it's always just about waiting for that one goal nowadays. I still enjoyed watching Xavi do work more than I did the Netherlands thuggery though.

I think people forget just how entertaining the group stage was though.

 

[Maria]

Spain has gotten progressively worse to watch since Del Bosque took over...too many teams are afraid of them so it's always just about waiting for that one goal nowadays. I still enjoyed watching Xavi do work more than I did the Netherlands thuggery though.

I think people forget just how entertaining the group stage was though.

I don't remember the Netherlands playing like thuggs until the final..I do remember Sneijder though and from Spain I've quite enjoyed Xavi and Busi. There were many good matches(certainly a bigger procentage then in this year's CL) and some drama, so I don't understand why many believe that the 2010 WC was so boring.

 

[Pepe Silvia]

Chile was the most exciting and mesmerizing team at WC for me.

Netherlands and Germany were about equal for me in their level of quality but they had their setbacks. Germany for trying to bulldoze their way through without relying on their skill and Netherlands for hacking the crap out of everyone.

Still, I might get flack for this, but my most exciting team to watch is always Argentina. Even though they are a train wreck, they are by far my favorite team to watch, along with Spain.

 

[La Furia]

I mean watching Argentina demolish lesser teams is always fun, but the complete lack of structure and Maradona's obsession with scrubs drove me insane. And watching Argentina-Germany in a bar full of Germans was not my idea of fun.

 

[Pepe Silvia]

I mean watching Argentina demolish lesser teams is always fun, but the complete lack of structure and Maradona's obsession with scrubs drove me insane. And watching Argentina-Germany in a bar full of Germans was not my idea of fun.

 

[Kerrybai]

A middling Cypriot team made it to the KO stage in the CL this year. On the other hand that "dull" World Cup had some excellent football from Uruguay, Chile, Ghana and Japan. Take off your euro-blinders.

No doubt the highest quality is seen in the rich clubs. They have the money to buy whoever they want, so yes, nothing is going to stop Barcelona, Madrid, Man Utd, Bayern, and so on in brutal consistency.

But some players still play harder for country than club. Some, the other way around. Right now I agree the CL is going to have the best quality players every year.

But I don't know how anyone can complain about the 2010 world cup (which I loved, but to each their own) and then sing the praises of the CL. This years CL has been a dreadful show, some absolutely awful football.

And that Cypriot team was demolished. Club football brings together the best players from all corners of the world and thus creates the highest level of competition. I agree with you that International football should not be discounted. But if Messi never wins a world cup, for me at least it wont take away from his talent and potential GOAT status. I think it will be a long time before we see another player score 50 CL goals by the age of 24.

Anyway thats enough from me. The only reason im even having this conversation is because some poor delusional soul by the name of heaver seems to think Neymar is better than Messi

 

[Bilal Khan]

Spain's Best player in the WC was Iniesta... he was phenomenal through-out.

 

[UberNjufer]

Spain's Best player in the WC was Iniesta... he was phenomenal through-out.

imo villa was best by far