Neymar - v2

[Hatem Ben Arfa]

did all those tricks hurt Ronaldinho?

 

[el tren]

So, you won't argue about anything good the videos shows, just the bad stuff? If you just watched Messi playing the bad games he had so far, I imagine what you'd say about him, then. I don't think no one here is claiming neymar's perfect(apart from hba), but a horrible player? If that's not hate, I don't know what that is... I really feel sorry for this kid, sometimes. All the media hype is being more hurtful than good.

Thing is that i see a lot of good things when i see Messi. And in total the good things outweight the bad things by far - which is different with the Neymar clips on youtube. About the term 'horrible' ... ye, sounds harsh. But i used it like i do in like 'horrible weather' - just to stress the bad.

And like La Furia said, my issue is the decision making. Clearly. But im afraid that this is the most important skill of a footballer. Its what makes Iniesta and Xavi such important players for Barca and the foundation for Barcas success, but also an enormous joy to watch - b/c they almost always take their options right. They do the right pass to the right guy in the right moment. They choose right when to pass, to dribble or to shoot ... or to press or to mark or to be ready for an interception. This is what matters. But Neymar - as far as i could witness - is far far away from this. And it has to be doubtful if he ever gets there.

 

[DucdeOrléans]

I get your points and all that El Tren but are you not guilty of a straw man argument in this case when you have only seen two matches were Neymar took part - one against arguably the best club team at that time (December 2011) Barcelona and one against one of the very best national teams (Germany)?

I mean Youtube clips should not even be discussed. Come on.

 

[Flavia]

I only see a single instance of saying Neymar is horrible. And Tren might be a harsh critic but he's right that Neymar's decision making is not good at all. Having skill and a willingness to (sometimes) track back is a good foundation, but he does a lot of unnecessary stuff that's going to hurt him regularly against European defenses.

And you are right about the media hype, besides being distorted by personal dislike for his game (hey, at least I'm honest), it's messing up his ability to develop normally. It's always extremes with this kid. It's like the exact opposite of how Messi was brought up.

He had a good game against the naive Americans, this thread has reached one extreme..just wait for his next bad game.

Yes, that's surely hurting his development. Specially because he's being portrayed as more than he actually is. He is really good, talented, but nowhere near Ronaldo's level, let alone Messi's. He has a long way to go, but media paints him as a final product already. And a lot of people already believe he is all that.

did all those tricks hurt Ronaldinho?

Ronaldinho didn't have all this hype when he started, and he went to psg before moving to a bigger club. That can make a difference to Neymar's development. Wherever he goes, he'll be expected to perform at top level.

 

[el tren]

I get your points and all that El Tren but are you not guilty of a straw man argument in this case when you have only seen two matches were Neymar took part - one against arguably the best club team at that time (December 2011) Barcelona and one against one of the very best national teams (Germany)?

I mean Youtube clips should not even be discussed. Come on.

Thats true and i said this already. There is also a reason why im pretty quiet in here

Still what puzzles me is that those video are posted to showcase his (supposed) skills, while they just dont show (enough) endproduct - like i posted above. And despite the fact that i didnt watch a lot from him, it should actually be really understandable that these clips alone raise doubt.

 

[Hatem Ben Arfa]

Thing is that i see a lot of good things when i see Messi. And in total the good things outweight the bad things by far - which is different with the Neymar clips on youtube. About the term 'horrible' ... ye, sounds harsh. But i used it like i do in like 'horrible weather' - just to stress the bad.

And like La Furia said, my issue is the decision making. Clearly. But im afraid that this is the most important skill of a footballer. Its what makes Iniesta and Xavi such important players for Barca and the foundation for Barcas success, but also an enormous joy to watch - b/c they almost always take their options right. They do the right pass to the right guy in the right moment. They choose right when to pass, to dribble or to shoot ... or to press or to mark or to be ready for an interception. This is what matters. But Neymar - as far as i could witness - is far far away from this. And it has to be doubtful if he ever gets there.

He just turned 20 for goodness sakes

 

[Flavia]

Thing is that i see a lot of good things when i see Messi. And in total the good things outweight the bad things by far - which is different with the Neymar clips on youtube. About the term 'horrible' ... ye, sounds harsh. But i used it like i do in like 'horrible weather' - just to stress the bad.

And like La Furia said, my issue is the decision making. Clearly. But im afraid that this is the most important skill of a footballer. Its what makes Iniesta and Xavi such important players for Barca and the foundation for Barcas success, but also an enormous joy to watch - b/c they almost always take their options right. They do the right pass to the right guy in the right moment. They choose right when to pass, to dribble or to shoot ... or to press or to mark or to be ready for an interception. This is what matters. But Neymar - as far as i could witness - is far far away from this. And it has to be doubtful if he ever gets there.

Clips on youtube can't be the source of an well formed opinion. And I agree decision making is important, but a lot of it that comes with experience. Neymar doesn't have that much. Brazil's nt coach recommended him to come to europe in 2013, so he's more experienced for the WC. It is something he lacks. And I don't think it's fair to put the benchmark for him in Xavi, Iniesta or Messi. Those are special and unique players, that won't be repeated any time soon, if ever.

 

[Yugi]

I get your points and all that El Tren but are you not guilty of a straw man argument in this case when you have only seen two matches were Neymar took part - one against arguably the best club team at that time (December 2011) Barcelona and one against one of the very best national teams (Germany)?

I mean Youtube clips should not even be discussed. Come on.

well, if he is best player on the planet earth or biggest talent why didn´t he produce something (except 1 goal in additional time against germany when noone cared) in those games El Tren watched? Big players perform in big games and that´s what everyone expect from this "better player than Messi". Neymar is 20 already and Messi already scored hattrick vs Madrid when he was 19 so we are all expecting something big from him, scoring 1 and assisting 2 against USA Messi dribbled past whole USA defence so many times and only ref. whistle stopped him from one absolute golazo...it´s nothing special and I want to see him perform on bigger stage vs good teams because you know, in Europe, it´s not all regional league where he can score 8 and assist 4

 

[Doobs]

I cant believe people in here claim he's already better than Messi

 

[DucdeOrléans]

Thats true and i said this already. There is also a reason why im pretty quiet in here

Still what puzzles me is that those video are posted to showcase his (supposed) skills, while they just dont show (enough) endproduct - like i posted above. And despite the fact that i didnt watch a lot from him, it should actually be really understandable that these clips alone raise doubt.

Well obviously he still has a lot to learn, no doubt. Including his decision making. But despite all this he is a very, very big talent that could turn out to be a magnificent player if he keeps his head cool.

well, if he is best player on the planet earth or biggest talent why didn´t he produce something (except 1 goal in additional time against germany when noone cared) in those games El Tren watched? Big players perform in big games and that´s what everyone expect from this "better player than Messi". Neymar is 20 already and Messi already scored hattrick vs Madrid when he was 19 so we are all expecting something big from him, scoring 1 and assisting 2 against USA Messi dribbled past whole USA defence so many times and only ref. whistle stopped him from one absolute golazo...it´s nothing special and I want to see him perform on bigger stage vs good teams because you know, in Europe, it´s not all regional league where he can score 8 and assist 4

Buddy, I don't know why you are writing all this since I have never ever called Neymar the best player in the world. The point is that Barcelona and Germany are hardly easy opponents or good examples to use as a benchmark for his overall improvements during this season.

That should be clear for all I hope.

 

[Yugi]

he hardly improved anything since copa america to CWC, maybe he worked harder those 4 months but it´s yet to be seen against bigger opposition

 

[DucdeOrléans]

he hardly improved anything since copa america to CWC, maybe he worked harder those 4 months but it´s yet to be seen against bigger opposition

Have you watched him closely to determine whether that's the case or not? Since CWC until now he has improved greatly in all aspects of his game, mainly his vision, decision making and defensive abilities as he has become more prone to track back. That's not something I have invented for this ocassion but something most journalists, experts, fans etc. think. There is still a lot of work to do but that's not the point here.

 

[Yugi]

I said I watched him from Copa to CWC, not following him now as I wrote, anyway I am out of this thread....
better than Messi, oh god what have you done with Neymar fanboys

 

[Flavia]

The problem is expectation, and people believing the hype and saying he's already one of the best players of the world. Being one of the biggest talents is just showing promise to be great, doesn't mean he already is one. For the way things go, sometimes I think if he gets to be a benzema type of player, or Villa, it will be bad for most people. Expectations are too high right now.

 

[DucdeOrléans]

I said I watched him from Copa to CWC, not following him now as I wrote, anyway I am out of this thread....
better than Messi, oh god what have you done with Neymar fanboys

Then you obviously can't tell nor know if he has made progress since last summer if any at all.

Leave that part for HBA since he is the only person who has said that Neymar is the best player in the world. There are the pathetic haters and those who overrate him immensely. Both are annoying.