Ousmane Dembélé
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Anti-everything
ITT
DONT Dare question the cult of "PHYSICAL TRAINING IS NOT IMPORTANT" Valverde, he was the chosen one and had no faults.
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That Team was literally carried by Messi, when his form dipped the entire teams form dipped. We couldn't cope with them and were fucking lucky to not concede in the first leg. The second leg we also couldn't cope with their intensity and didn't have the physical conditioning to be able to go toe to toe with them after being 3-0 up.
Because the entire team is older were emotional wrecks after the whole Valverde fiasco and secondly didn't have the authority or players to be able to execute their game plans. You could tell that seiten didn't have the authority and the players did what ever the fuck they wanted at the end. That however is on Barto for hiring subpar or mediocre managers in the first place.
Defence tactic of Valverde cultist ? oh but we wont so much, yeah thanks that?s due to a Messi that was 3 years younger. Instead of gradually rebuilding Valverde and Barto fucked this club to the position we are in now.
Going to rehash my comment because it seems like you like to continue to peddle this false narrative.
?Straw man like usual from you. At least make it original if you?re going to make shit up because no one here is inferring any of this.?
Secondly that was down to Messi being Messi as well as Atheltico and Madrid being subpar after the 2016/17 season, just look at the points drop off (until Real?s haul in 2018/19)
2013/14 Real 90 Athletico 87
2014/15 Real 92 Athletico 78
2015/16 Real 90 Athletico 88
2016/17 Real 93 Athletico 78
2017/18 Real 76 Athletico 79
2018/19 Real 68 Athletico 76
2018/19 Real 87 Athletico 70
Secondly I?m pretty sure the manger can instruct or bring in the right people if he so wishes, its just that a person like Valverde didn?t and a person like Wenger did back in the early 2000s.
Agree with the bolded though.
I?m sorry, how is calling out Valverde for his lack to physical preparation ?reaching?? Is it a bit of a long stretch to say that the lack of physical training/discipline/guidance may have played a role in Dembele?s reoccurring injuries?
Is there not enough evidence out there already that our training regime was subpar and severely lacking? And resulted in our players being unable to compete at the highest level?
Neymar is getting impact injuries not muscular ones for the most part. It?s because he?s being hacked by other players in the league.
Ronaldo?s klnee went not a muscular injury
Agree with this, this could and probably did happen, unfortunately I blame the club for not being able to curb that type of thinking? expecting too much with how much leeway the squad got under Valverde?.
I agree, Koeman warned about his discipline but we now somehow have a more focused Dembele I wonder why that is? Could it be due to Koeman? I?d think so. Isn?t that just proving the point about Valverde because he couldn?t do what Koeman did in a couple of months.
Different players different body types different types of training requirements. Yet again your binary logic on display for all to see.
You are not privy to what advice the club gave him; you are merely trying to pass pure speculation as fact. The only thing we know is that the club hired a chef for Dembele but he could of fired him for any number of reasons.
Secondly there was a lot of unfair criticism of Dembele in the media during certain periods of his injury eg. when he was 15 minutes late to training, you didn?t get that with other players who were more consistently late or just didn?t go to training at all because of other ?obligations?.
Its more like blaming your teacher because they didn?t think you needed basic algebra to do trigonometric integrals or geometric locus.
DONT Dare question the cult of "PHYSICAL TRAINING IS NOT IMPORTANT" Valverde, he was the chosen one and had no faults.
==========
That Team was literally carried by Messi, when his form dipped the entire teams form dipped. We couldn't cope with them and were fucking lucky to not concede in the first leg. The second leg we also couldn't cope with their intensity and didn't have the physical conditioning to be able to go toe to toe with them after being 3-0 up.
Straw man like usual from you. At least make it original if you're going to make shit up because no one here is inferring any of this.
Because the entire team is older were emotional wrecks after the whole Valverde fiasco and secondly didn't have the authority or players to be able to execute their game plans. You could tell that seiten didn't have the authority and the players did what ever the fuck they wanted at the end. That however is on Barto for hiring subpar or mediocre managers in the first place.
Defence tactic of Valverde cultist ? oh but we wont so much, yeah thanks that?s due to a Messi that was 3 years younger. Instead of gradually rebuilding Valverde and Barto fucked this club to the position we are in now.
Going to rehash my comment because it seems like you like to continue to peddle this false narrative.
?Straw man like usual from you. At least make it original if you?re going to make shit up because no one here is inferring any of this.?
Secondly that was down to Messi being Messi as well as Atheltico and Madrid being subpar after the 2016/17 season, just look at the points drop off (until Real?s haul in 2018/19)
2013/14 Real 90 Athletico 87
2014/15 Real 92 Athletico 78
2015/16 Real 90 Athletico 88
2016/17 Real 93 Athletico 78
2017/18 Real 76 Athletico 79
2018/19 Real 68 Athletico 76
2018/19 Real 87 Athletico 70
Yes, the staff at that time let the player do what he wanted and were also at fault for not managing the player correctly. There should be stipulations in their contract with penalties (or lower base + bonus?s depending on region) to ensure there are financial penalties for players who don?t toe the line.
Secondly I?m pretty sure the manger can instruct or bring in the right people if he so wishes, its just that a person like Valverde didn?t and a person like Wenger did back in the early 2000s.
Agree with the bolded though.
I?m sorry, how is calling out Valverde for his lack to physical preparation ?reaching?? Is it a bit of a long stretch to say that the lack of physical training/discipline/guidance may have played a role in Dembele?s reoccurring injuries?
Is there not enough evidence out there already that our training regime was subpar and severely lacking? And resulted in our players being unable to compete at the highest level?
Neymar is getting impact injuries not muscular ones for the most part. It?s because he?s being hacked by other players in the league.
Ronaldo?s klnee went not a muscular injury
Agree with this, this could and probably did happen, unfortunately I blame the club for not being able to curb that type of thinking? expecting too much with how much leeway the squad got under Valverde?.
I agree, Koeman warned about his discipline but we now somehow have a more focused Dembele I wonder why that is? Could it be due to Koeman? I?d think so. Isn?t that just proving the point about Valverde because he couldn?t do what Koeman did in a couple of months.
Different players different body types different types of training requirements. Yet again your binary logic on display for all to see.
You are not privy to what advice the club gave him; you are merely trying to pass pure speculation as fact. The only thing we know is that the club hired a chef for Dembele but he could of fired him for any number of reasons.
Secondly there was a lot of unfair criticism of Dembele in the media during certain periods of his injury eg. when he was 15 minutes late to training, you didn?t get that with other players who were more consistently late or just didn?t go to training at all because of other ?obligations?.
Its more like blaming your teacher because they didn?t think you needed basic algebra to do trigonometric integrals or geometric locus.
Birdy
Senior Member
[MENTION=23091]vegitot[/MENTION]
No one said ONLY EV and club were responsible. But they were at least partly.
That's what you refuse to concede and put everything on the player.
And again, every point you make you have to pose the exact same question to yourself about his time at Dortmund.
Was he warming up before matches then?
Was he eating healthy then?
was he refusing to comply with staff advice at Dortmund?
Then collect all the answers and see how much of that narrative has any connection to reality.
When in fact the answer is fairly simple: people at Dortmund FORCED him to do stuff, whereas people at Barca did NOT.
It's definitely due to Koeman and his staff, but EV cultists will never concede that, as they have to distort reality as much as possible to prove that he and his staff do not bear any responsibility for Dembouz becoming an injury wreck in 3 years
No one said ONLY EV and club were responsible. But they were at least partly.
That's what you refuse to concede and put everything on the player.
And again, every point you make you have to pose the exact same question to yourself about his time at Dortmund.
Was he warming up before matches then?
Was he eating healthy then?
was he refusing to comply with staff advice at Dortmund?
Then collect all the answers and see how much of that narrative has any connection to reality.
When in fact the answer is fairly simple: people at Dortmund FORCED him to do stuff, whereas people at Barca did NOT.
It's definitely due to Koeman and his staff, but EV cultists will never concede that, as they have to distort reality as much as possible to prove that he and his staff do not bear any responsibility for Dembouz becoming an injury wreck in 3 years
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Birdy
Senior Member
On his habits you mean?
Because last season he had the worse injuries of his time at Barca
Horatio
You're welcome
I think whenever he played he showed a growth in gameplay. Better passing positioning and more defending. During the recovery of his injury rumours arose that Dembele showed an improved mentality and was eager to increase his physicality. Pics showed he was hitting the gym.
This season to me kind of looks like he is building off of or continuing his process from last season. Props to Koeman for keeping him mentally sharp and guiding him, but that big mentality switch...not sure if it happened this season or previous season already.
As I said before, that long injury you mentioned might be for me what triggered him.
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Your whole post goes to recycle bin when you try to say anything about Ronaldo Brazil injury.
First, Ronaldo was totally healthy in 1996/1997 and 1997/1998 with Barca and Inter. Then he started being injuried more and more since 1998/1999 season. His first major injury at Inter came on the match vs Leece at home, he was subbed after got injury and later revealed that Ronaldo had ruptured his tendon in his right knee. Need 5 months to come back.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/footbal...-ousmane-dembele-facing-four-months-ruptured/
Ronald's second injury, which happened in 2000 Copa Italia Final vs Lazio, he completely ripped the knee-cap tendon.
https://www.fourfourtwo.com/performance/training/ronaldos-kneecap-exploded-it-was-his-thigh
After 18 months, he returned then immediately suffered an injury in his thigh bicep. His last injury at Inter before his move to Real Madrid.
Now are you going to tell me that Inter Milan didn't care for Ronaldo at all??? Just like what EV and Barca did to Dembele???
Now going back to your "Barca was so weak against physical team under EV" point.
First, we all know that Barca won 2 Laliga tittles in a row against Real Madrid and Atletico Madrid, two teams that probably were better in term of physicality and intensity. So it is far from being "so weak against physical team". Now you are trying to tell that both Madrid teams were not as good as their previous seasons. It might be true but again, in 2017/2018 season Real Madrid still rampaged the whole Europe (they were UCL winner 2017/2018 anyway). Their fate in Laliga were sealed after the loss vs Barca at Bernabeu (0-3 loss). This is the same team that beat Barca 5-1 overall in Super Cup. So they were far from weak. It mainly due to Barca's performances. Went on 36 matches unbeaten including beating both Real Madrid and Atletico Madrid.
Next season, 2018/19, Barca continued to win Laliga tittle, again. Beat Real Madrid twice (one without Messi by the way, 5-1 win at Camp Nou, not even mention the 3-0 win at Bernabeu in Copa Del Rey), beat Atletico. Again, if Barca was so weak against physical teams, they should not beat all of Atletico and Real Madrid.
It could be Messi who carried Barca. True but since when Messi doesn't carry Barca??? Even under Pep or Lucho or 2006/07 season with Rijkaard, Messi always shine and carry Barca. Even now when he is nearly 34, he still carries Barca. Without him, this team is nothing. (Don't tell me Dembele will step up and become Ronaldinho).
Hell, even without Messi (because of his shoulder injury) in 2018, Barca beat all of Real Madrid, Inter Milan....easily.
And for that UCL lost, had this happened, thing could have gone differently
Oh, What a shot
Now back to Dembele, EV and Barca were the reason behind his injuries according to Respect or Dembele's fan boys. That is bullshit. No one pray for his injuries. Just like Ronaldo's case above (or many players in history). Thing like that due to many reasons. Player's nature physical (vulnerable to injury or not), training methods (both coaching staff and player himself), life style (Dembele had bad life style with all of his junk foods, video games....). He was not injuried at Dortmund 2016/17 season doesn't mean he wouldn't be injuried if he stayed. Look at Ronaldo's case above, same club, different season then got injuried. Or Van Basten, healthy in 1988/1989 then injuied the following seasons, Thiago at Barca then became an injury prone at Bayern (best physcial training team in the world according to many), Ronaldinho stayed healthy from 2003-2006 under Rijkaard then also under Rijkaard he got fat and lazy (remember he once said that he went to the gym and saw Ronaldinho slept in there instead of training)....
Neymar is tackled hard by Ligue 1 defenders but also his bad lifestye outside the pitch that affects his recovery. Hazard was hacked to death by Premier League but he was still healthy at Chelsea then become fat and get injuried at Real Madrid. Do you think Zidane and RM do all of it to him??? Pretty no.
Dembele has changed this season. Mainly due to himself growing up more. After three years of wasting, you must learn something. Koeman also has changed a lot (already explained above) when it come to physical preparation. Does that help Dembele? Yes. Does that help Dembele if he still is an unprofessional player? No. He must knew that he is no longer a new comer and this is his 4th season. Lack of discipline again with a strict coach like Koeman will end his Barca's career.
Good that he is better. If only he realized it sooner.
P/S: Araujo seems to be an injury prone, even under Koeman who prepare much better than EV when it comes to physical preparation. Or Pique, Roberto keep getting injuries. Just wonder if Dembele's fans will blame Koeman for all of them.
Read your own post when you claim EV and Barca for your beloved Dembele getting injuries time after time.
Again, who told you that Dembele was not warned under EV??? Even Suarez warned about his attitude here. Fact is he even fired someone that club hired to help him, tell you about his personality (though it could be due to different reasons)
https://www.*********/en-us/news/de...-insists-barca-boss/sa3i56pszsj71ujqcu9nmdlfg
https://en.as.com/en/2019/08/21/football/1566389199_870725.html
Dembele from 2017-2020 under Koeman will not recieve such an easy treatment like EV did to him.
Dembele's fanboys never accept these facts. Hope that in the future if he is injured again, they don't blame his coach and club again
Also don't forget Iniesta. Healthy with Rijkaard (he played most games under Rijkaard, more than any coach) then started getting injuries with Pep and later coaches.
Did Pep destroy Iniesa's legs???
Never happened under Rijkaard. Pep must be a fraud for all of this.
4 - Andres Iniesta has suffered four thigh injuries since the start of the 2009/10 season. Delicate.
https://twitter.com/OptaJose/status/15786379520
10- #Iniesta has suffered his 10th injury for Barcelona since 2009, all 10 affecting his thighs: 7 on the right and 3 on the left. Fragile
https://twitter.com/OptaJose/status/138584773038841857
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JohnN
Senior Member
Dembele was a spoilt kid when he got here. He was unlucky with injuries and probably didn't take care of his body enough as he thought he was invisible at that age. Other players were just luckier with the same attitude. There is little the club could do if the player is so immature.
Apart from that and with no correlation to dembele injuries, EVs physical conditioning of the team was laughable.
Those two realities can coexist without conflict.
Apart from that and with no correlation to dembele injuries, EVs physical conditioning of the team was laughable.
Those two realities can coexist without conflict.
Marshall D Teach
Well-known member
Also Dembele's attitude back then + EV's attitude towards physical conditioning made a disastrous combination.
Just fuck off with this piece of shit.He can t even score in a brothel.
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