Ousmane Dembélé

[Sorin]

Typical brainless comment that contribute nothing to the topic.
Prove that EV forced Dembele to eat junk foods, played game instead of training, will you??? That is what we debate here.
As a coach who is in top 4 most wins in Laliga history, far from mediocre.

Seems I touched a nerve. Not even mentioned anyone but there you are crusading against the tyrants that slag off the hero Valverde.

Mate, I don't care about who is responsible for Dembele's injuries, probably a combination of factors: from poor diet, to questionable entourage, to being guided by a weak manager etc. I just find it funny how people come out of the woodwork to counter everything thrown against a manager who directly called physical training not important. A manager that let the players walk over him, a manager that gave more days of rest to the players than hair folicules on his head. A manager who directly contributed to the creation of the so called "club de amigos", where everyone and their mother did everything they wanted because the manager was a weak ass individual.

You would think that such a good manager would have a job in the top 5 leagues but alas, Olympiacos apparently don't need a manager right now so he's shit out of luck.

 

[vegitot]

Seems I touched a nerve. Not even mentioned anyone but there you are crusading against the tyrants that slag off the hero Valverde.

Mate, I don't care about who is responsible for Dembele's injuries, probably a combination of factors: from poor diet, to questionable entourage, to being guided by a weak manager etc. I just find it funny how people come out of the woodwork to counter everything thrown against a manager who directly called physical training not important. A manager that let the players walk over him, a manager that gave more days of rest to the players than hair folicules on his head. A manager who directly contributed to the creation of the so called "club de amigos", where everyone and their mother did everything they wanted because the manager was a weak ass individual.

You would think that such a good manager would have a job in the top 5 leagues but alas, Olympiacos apparently don't need a manager right now so he's shit out of luck.

Typical hater lol. Just like you guys think Messi is destroying Barcelona lmao.

Read the post that lead to this discussion. Birdy blames EV for Dembele's injuries and we are talking about it. Part of EV too but mainly Dembele himself. Koeman has changed a lot but then Pique, Fati Araujo, Roberto all are injuried. Is that Koeman's fault???

Your last line is dumb. Cruyff didn't coach any club after he left Barca in 1996. Was he mediocre coach??? Or Tele Santana didn't coach after 1996. Was he mediocre too???
Or Rijkaard???

EV is not a top elite but not a mediocre either.

 

[Sorin]

Typical hater lol. Just like you guys think Messi is destroying Barcelona lmao.

Read the post that lead to this discussion. Birdy blames EV for Dembele's injuries and we are talking about it. Part of EV too but mainly Dembele himself. Koeman has changed a lot but then Pique, Fati Araujo, Roberto all are injuried. Is that Koeman's fault???

Your last line is dumb. Cruyff didn't coach any club after he left Barca in 1996. Was he mediocre coach??? Or Tele Santana didn't coach after 1996. Was he mediocre too???

EV is not a top elite but not a mediocre either.

Not a hater when i only presented facts in my posts. Or what, did the players not have way too much leeway in his time? Did they not have poor conditioning causing us to crumble against any physical side? Don't go around making stuff up. Who is "you guys"? I never said anything about Messi destroying Barca, on the contrary, i took his side even when a good deal of posters slagged him off left, right and center.

Cruyff retired due to having heart problems and due to the stress caused by managing Barca. Now back to Valverde, maybe he'll manage another club of Barca's stature, who knows, but until then Bilbao is the next big club in his resume and right now he's out of a job. His level is middle of the league kind of teams at best. I call that as being mediocre, if you want to call it something else be my guest.

 

[vegitot]

Not a hater when i only presented facts in my posts. Or what, did the players not have way too much leeway in his time? Did they not have poor conditioning causing us to crumble against any physical side? Don't go around making stuff up. Who is "you guys"? I never said anything about Messi destroying Barca, on the contrary, i took his side even when a good deal of posters slagged him off left, right and center.

Cruyff retired due to having heart problems and due to the stress caused by managing Barca. Now back to Valverde, maybe he'll manage another club of Barca's stature, who knows, but until then Bilbao is the next big club in his resume and right now he's out of a job. His level is middle of the league kind of teams at best. I call that as being mediocre, if you want to call it something else be my guest.

Only Dembele was an injury prone under EV. Not Messi, not Suarez, not Rakitic, not Pique.... This is what we discuss here.

Barca beat all of better physical side like RM, Ateltico or even Liverpool (lost after all though) btw.

Your last line is so stupid. You think EV or any Barca coach didn't deal with stress??? Why Pep needed a year rest before return??? Why Lucho needed two years??? How about Rijkaard??? What about Tene Santana??? What about Sacchi (Grande Milan's coach), why didn't he coach any team after 2001 even he was the one that formed the legendary Ac Milan from 1987-1991???

If you think a coach that only fit to lower team, not a top team is a mediocre coach, well, your opinion.

 

[Sorin]

Only Dembele was an injury prone under EV. Not Messi, not Suarez, not Rakitic, not Pique.... This is what we discuss here.

Barca beat all of better physical side like RM, Ateltico or even Liverpool (lost after all though) btw.

Your last line is so stupid. You think EV or any Barca coach didn't deal with stress??? Why Pep needed a year rest before return??? Why Lucho needed two years??? How about Rijkaard??? What about Tene Santana??? What about Sacchi (Grande Milan's coach), why didn't he coach any team after 2001 even he was the one that formed the legendary Ac Milan from 1987-1991???

If you think a coach that only fit to lower team, not a top team is a mediocre coach, well, your opinion.

Is English too hard for you? The primary reason he quit with profesional football is because of his health. It's a fact mate, not an opinion. He literally had a heart attack in 1991 while he was managing us, and after years of stress he called it quits.

 

[vegitot]

Is English too hard for you? The primary reason he quit with profesional football is because of his health. It's a fact mate, not an opinion. He literally had a heart attack in 1991 while he was managing us, and after years of stress he called it quits.

Read my post. And what about Sacchi, Rijkaard, Tene Santana...
Why didn't Sacchi coach any team after 2001??? If you think Valverde now is not coaching because he is mediocre then Sacchi must be mediocre coach as well. After Parma he didn't coach any team. I'm talking about Sacchi who made Grande Milan from 1987-1991 (one of the greatest team) here. What about Fabio Capello now???
Or why Marcello Lippi coach in China, not in Europe??? Is he a mediocre coach in his entire career???
Or Arsene Wenger???

"He is not coaching because he is a mediocre coach" is so stupid line. There are many reasons behind it (stress/ personal life/not contact to any club yet...).

 

[Birdy]

[MENTION=23091]vegitot[/MENTION]

No one forced Dembouz to eat junk, mate.
But they didn't guide him properly to adjust to a professional life of a footballer.

The guy didn't have a single injury at Dortmund, and his record shows no serious injuries before that.
And suddenly he plays not even 1/3 of the games he could in 3 whole seasons.
Guess what changed in between?
1) TRAINING
and
2) How club TAKES CARE of athlete's diet and habits

You don't want me to say how well the club and EV fared in both 1 and 2.
Not only they are responsible, but they are HUGELY responsible.
It's easy scapegoating to put it all on the immaturity of Dembele.


- Then about EV (off-topic but still): Some coaches simple go out of fashion when football changes, like Sacchi, Cappelo. Mourinho will head that direction soon too..
Valverde is a different case.
He is not a great coach that is going out of fashion because football is changing: he is a coach suited not for top clubs, because of his cowardice.
I am sure he will get another job, but it will be Valencia again or Villareal, or Bilbao or a team like Lazio in Italy, like Everton in EPL etc
That's his ceiling.

 

[JamDav1982]

Never see Rijkaard getting the blame for Messi injuries or Ronaldinho/Deco getting fat.

There is only so much coach can do and sometimes it takes a change of surroundings or more maturity for players changing ways also.

Barca have nutrionists and fitness coaches that monitor and advise players it is not coach that does that.

 

[vegitot]

[MENTION=23091]vegitot[/MENTION]

No one forced Dembouz to eat junk, mate.
But they didn't guide him properly to adjust to a professional life of a footballer.

The guy didn't have a single injury at Dortmund, and his record shows no serious injuries before that.
And suddenly he plays not even 1/3 of the games he could in 3 whole seasons.
Guess what changed in between?
1) TRAINING
and
2) How club TAKES CARE of athlete's diet and habits

You don't want me to say how well the club and EV fared in both 1 and 2.
Not only they are responsible, but they are HUGELY responsible.
It's easy scapegoating to put it all on the immaturity of Dembele.


- Then about EV (off-topic but still): Some coaches simple go out of fashion when football changes, like Sacchi, Cappelo. Mourinho will head that direction soon too..
Valverde is a different case.
He is not a great coach that is going out of fashion because football is changing: he is a coach suited not for top clubs, because of his cowardice.
I am sure he will get another job, but it will be Valencia again or Villareal, or Bilbao or a team like Lazio in Italy, like Everton in EPL etc
That's his ceiling.

And Dembele himself was unprofessional. And it is his nature body as well. He is just vulnerable to injury. This is not rare in football. Messi and co had no problem with EV (Messi was an injury prone when he was young, remember that). Only Dembele. This season things are better for him, this is mainly because of him. He starts to act like a footballer.

Do you think Bayern didn't care for Thiago at all??? Or Ac Milan destroyed Nesta's body??? Or PSG destroyed Neymar??? Or Rijkaard didn't care for Ronaldinho after 2006???

Back to EV, you are right that EV may not suit for top team lile Barca or Real but that doesn't mean he is not a good coach. Just by Sori's logic that he is not coaching now mean he is shit, should apply to all coaches in the world. Guys like Sacchi, Capello, Wenger...must be mediocre, by that logic.

 

[Birdy]

Never see Rijkaard getting the blame for Messi injuries or Ronaldinho/Deco getting fat.

There is only so much coach can do and sometimes it takes a change of surroundings or more maturity for players changing ways also.

Barca have nutrionists and fitness coaches that monitor and advise players it is not coach that does that.

Do you think Bayern didn't care for Thiago at all??? Or Ac Milan destroyed Nesta's body??? Or PSG destroyed Neymar??? Or Rijkaard didn't care for Ronaldinho after 2006???

Again, you are comparing apples with oranges.
Not all injuries are alike, and an one-off even terrible injury can happen to any athlete with no one being responsible for it.
When a player has constant injuries though, and especially muscular injuries (as is Dembele's case), then there are responsibilities which should be examined.

 

[JamDav1982]

Again, you are comparing apples with oranges.
Not all injuries are alike, and an one-off even terrible injury can happen to any athlete with no one being responsible for it.
When a player has constant injuries though, and especially muscular injuries (as is Dembele's case), then there are responsibilities which should be examined.

No I am comparing very similar situations and how folk react to coaches involved.

Who said anything about 'all injuries being alike'?

Messi was muscular injuries also anyway.

It can be that Dembele now has matured and reacting to same advice he got in the past.

 

[Birdy]

Messi was 17 at the time you are referring to, and when you are so young muscular injuries are common because your body is trying to adjust to the intensity of playing so much.
Happened with other people.
And besides happend only twice (in 05/06 and 06/07) for a couple of months with Messi

Nothing like a player being a wreck from age 20 to age 23 through constant injuries that let him play less than 1/3 of 3 seasons in total

 

[vegitot]

Again, you are comparing apples with oranges.
Not all injuries are alike, and an one-off even terrible injury can happen to any athlete with no one being responsible for it.
When a player has constant injuries though, and especially muscular injuries (as is Dembele's case), then there are responsibilities which should be examined.

And why only Dembele under EV faced something like this??? Not Messi (who was an injury prone before)??? Neymar faces even more than Dembele, no one blame PSG at all.
Again, Dembele's nutrition was part of it. Junk foods are not good at all for your body. Ask Messi who also had problem with nutrition but could change it by himself. Same with current Dembele.

Ronaldo ((Brazil) also was an injury prone after 1999. Did Inter, Real Madrid destroy him??? No. No club in the world would do something ridiculous like destroy your own player's physicality. Some are just vulnerable to injury.

Saying EV destroyed Dembele's physicality is wrong at so many levels. What if Dembele faces another injury again, is that Koeman's fault???

 

[vegitot]

Messi was 17 at the time you are referring to, and when you are so young muscular injuries are common because your body is trying to adjust to the intensity of playing so much.
Happened with other people.
And besides happend only twice (in 05/06 and 06/07) for a couple of months with Messi

Nothing like a player being a wreck from age 20 to age 23 through constant injuries that let him play less than 1/3 of 3 seasons in total

If he could stay healthy (it was up to him), he could recover better. He didn't though.
And you just explain the reason behind his injuries. He was so young here and injuries happend. Just like Messi except Messi was more professional.

 

[JamDav1982]

Messi was 17 at the time you are referring to, and when you are so young muscular injuries are common because your body is trying to adjust to the intensity of playing so much.
Happened with other people.
And besides happend only twice (in 05/06 and 06/07) for a couple of months with Messi

Nothing like a player being a wreck from age 20 to age 23 through constant injuries that let him play less than 1/3 of 3 seasons in total

No he wasnt '17 at time'.

Messi went off injured v Celtic in 2008 and was in tears as was yet another injury. That summer is when they changed approach going by all reports.

Large reason given for those injuries reducing massively was the diet and approach of Messi to his preaeration.

If it is the fault of coaches and club then should see multiple muscle injuries to different players when comparing seasons.

You are focusing on one player and rest based in guess work.