Ousmane Dembélé

[MonteCuler]

Raphinha will have a better legacy at Barca, and Dembele st QSG.

He left to get out of Messis shadow, and ended up in the shadows of Rapha and Dembouz.

How is Raphinha going to have a better legacy? If we hypothetically win the treble this season that would still not be anything Neymar has failed to achieve.

 

[ajnotkeith]

Looks like he believes he is a top player now.

Evidently working hard and enjoying playing as his movement from the 9 in these games were so unBele like.

When he was younger and he had bigger stars, he was a bit sheepish.

Xavi played a part in this growth to be fair.

Xavi's system really emphasised his strengths and dropped his weaknesses. He was really suitable in Xavi's system because he could hold the opposing defence back without needing fullback support (one of the reasons we were good defensively), and Xavi was willing to let him lose the ball often as long as he could generate from low percentage situations. Our attack was based mostly on Dembele picking up the ball on the touchline for some time.

This version of Dembele seems way different though. Far fewer touches of the ball, more passing, more off ball movement, and going through the middle. He is much more effective than one would think there. Awareness was said to be one of his weak points but actually his striker intuition is pretty good and he seems to do well playing through the centre. Koeman tried this for a little bit and I remember it being surprisingly effective then too like you said yd.

 

[jamrock]

That's a freaking dumb comparison to be honest lol, Dembele is literally playing as a striker while Ney was feeding goals to Mbappe and still delivering a fair amount himself

Then there's the more important thing that a guy like Dembele can never overtake the legacy of a footballer like Neymar, not if he scores a thousand goals

If he leads PSG to the CL, the one thing they want more than anything his legacy at PSG will be significantly better than Neymar's & Mbappe.

Especially to PSG fans and even generally

Legacy doesn't mean he's a better player

 

[ajnotkeith]

Also, this.

Obviously if he 'falls out of form' I was right about him all along. That's the essence of my argument, surely - that he's in a period of form where he's playing way above himself. He will revert to being a good, but not excellent player.

He didn't even play that well last night to justify the wanking in here - it's another case of overrating someone's performance because he scored.

So if he doesn't maintain this level or close to it for the next 5/6 years then of course I will claim I was right about him. That's the point of my argument.

What is actually easy is to claim players are brilliant by taking their once in a blue moon good performances and extrapolating it over their career as if it's the norm. While ignoring the mountains of garbage. Or as I call it, the Rashford special.

The average is what we should measure players by, for sure there have been way more one-hit wonders than world-class talents, but still I feel like in the full seasons he's actually played he was still elite.

He was doing very well here in Xavi's 2nd season and then got injured in January and missed half of that. At that time he was seen as our key player and was starting over Raphinha.

This age of 27 is basically the only point in his career since Dortmund that he hasn't suffered from major injury problems so the 'clock' starts a lot later for him I feel. It's also possible he doesn't stay at the top too long anyhow because of that, his athleticism is a core part of his game, so maybe 3-4 full top seasons is fairer to expect.

Rashford has played plenty of full seasons and been regularly streaky so we know this about him but its less clear if Dembele is reaching this level due to continuity or purple patch. I think its some of both, he will have worse stretches but still his average will be elite.

 

[Maradona37]

The average is what we should measure players by, for sure there have been way more one-hit wonders than world-class talents, but still I feel like in the full seasons he's actually played he was still elite.

He was doing very well here in Xavi's 2nd season and then got injured in January and missed half of that. At that time he was seen as our key player and was starting over Raphinha.

This age of 27 is basically the only point in his career since Dortmund that he hasn't suffered from major injury problems so the 'clock' starts a lot later for him I feel. It's also possible he doesn't stay at the top too long anyhow because of that, his athleticism is a core part of his game, so maybe 3-4 full top seasons is fairer to expect.

Rashford has played plenty of full seasons and been regularly streaky so we know this about him but its less clear if Dembele is reaching this level due to continuity or purple patch. I think its some of both, he will have worse stretches but still his average will be elite.

I respect your opinion, just remain unconvinced. I guess time will tell.

What I will admit is that my original post in here was unnecessarily inflammatory.

Thank you for the discussion.

 

[MonteCuler]

If he leads PSG to the CL, the one thing they want more than anything his legacy at PSG will be significantly better than Neymar's & Mbappe.

Especially to PSG fans and even generally

Legacy doesn't mean he's a better player

That's hypothetical

If Gerard Martin wins the ballon d'or he'll have a better legacy than Roberto Carlos... so what?

But should be noted as well that this is a team sport and he's not "leading" anybody, he's an important component of that team like Kvara, like Barcola, like Neves, Vitinha etc.

You can call it leading in extreme cases when a player is literally carrying the team on his back Messi 2019 esque

 

[jamrock]

That's hypothetical

If Gerard Martin wins the ballon d'or he'll have a better legacy than Roberto Carlos... so what?

But should be noted as well that this is a team sport and he's not "leading" anybody, he's an important component of that team like Kvara, like Barcola, like Neves, Vitinha etc.

You can call it leading in extreme cases when a player is literally carrying the team on his back Messi 2019 esque

Martin
Carlos

Okay i guess.

 

[ajnotkeith]

That's hypothetical

If Gerard Martin wins the ballon d'or he'll have a better legacy than Roberto Carlos... so what?

But should be noted as well that this is a team sport and he's not "leading" anybody, he's an important component of that team like Kvara, like Barcola, like Neves, Vitinha etc.

You can call it leading in extreme cases when a player is literally carrying the team on his back Messi 2019 esque

If Gerard Martin was a horse he'd be a horse. But obviously its a situation that would never apply.

And it is true PSG's project for many years now has centred solely around buying a CL. The Ligue 1 stats have been irrelevant to both the board and the fans. Dembele is part of their new era after they realised they had to build a more organic team, they have been chasing that desperately, so he is right to state Dembele will have a better legacy there if he's the team's best performer in a CL win.

It would also be their first ever which will mark him down in club history way more than if he did it at another top club.

 

[jamrock]

If Gerard Martin was a horse he'd be a horse. But obviously its a situation that would never apply.

And it is true PSG's project for many years now has centred solely around buying a CL. The Ligue 1 stats have been irrelevant to both the board and the fans. Dembele is part of their new era after they realised they had to build a more organic team, they have been chasing that desperately, so he is right to state Dembele will have a better legacy there if he's the team's best performer in a CL win.

It would also be their first ever which will mark him down in club history way more than if he did it at another top club.

I honestly don't know where he was doing with the martin and Carlos comment.

I just tapped out after than.

 

[Maradona37]

I honestly don't know where he was doing with the martin and Carlos comment.

I just tapped out after than.

that was a poor comment but the rest of his post is correct.

 

[MonteCuler]

If Gerard Martin was a horse he'd be a horse. But obviously its a situation that would never apply.

And it is true PSG's project for many years now has centred solely around buying a CL. The Ligue 1 stats have been irrelevant to both the board and the fans. Dembele is part of their new era after they realised they had to build a more organic team, they have been chasing that desperately, so he is right to state Dembele will have a better legacy there if he's the team's best performer in a CL win.

It would also be their first ever which will mark him down in club history way more than if he did it at another top club.

Of course, I agree with this but we should wait until he actually does it before we go out on making such claims

By the way, just a reminder that he wouldn't just take Neymar over but also likes of Mbappe and Messi in eyes of PSG fans so that's not as much of an embarrassment as supposed to be

 

[MonteCuler]

I honestly don't know where he was doing with the martin and Carlos comment.

I just tapped out after than.

Pointing at the absurdity behind making big claims based on things that haven't even happened yet and are far from happening (such as Martin winning the ballon d'or, such as PSG winning the CL)

 

[Maradona37]

Now we have people debating about Dembele's legacy if he is 'the team's best performer in a CL win'

I'd be amazed if they win the CL this season, or next season. Or the season after that.

Football fans love to debate wild hypotheticals that likely won't happen. They're in the quarter finals. Stop prematurely ejaculating, you lot sound like 8 year olds.

 

[jamrock]

that was a poor comment but the rest of his post is correct.

No not really he was trying to be too literal in the use of the word lead.

If dembele leads PSG to a CL win, he will have a better legacy at PSG than Neymar, not much up for discussion there TBH.

Its literally the one thing the club was bought to achieve, its why they spent 400m on two players and still couldn't win it.

 

[Maradona37]

Pointing at the absurdity behind making big claims based on things that haven't even happened yet and are far from happening (such as Martin winning the ballon d'or, such as PSG winning the CL)

Ignore them mate.