Paulinho

[Potroh]

You can't take one point out of these and argue it's flaws, it's the whole package.

Of course I can take out an important point and generalize on the "age question", because it seems to be a very common misunderstanding or prejudice.

 

[Zuti]

Of course I can take out an important point and generalize on the "age question", because it seems to be a very common misunderstanding or prejudice.

Ok, right you can, but it doesn't help in arguing the Paulinho case.

 

[Potroh]

Ok, young man. Which WC did you play in and which club and country did you play for?
Serious questions. No trolling. I'm almost 50 and the best I could do were trials with Queens Park rangers in the old first division.

It's easy my slightly younger friend. You can browse back my messages from approximately a year ago, and all is there.
In case you are lazy to do that, I played 60+ games for the Hungarian national team, played in France and elsewhere later and also worked as a coach in four different countries.

 

[Potroh]

Ok, right you can, but it doesn't help in arguing the Paulinho case.

Right, it does not but there's little to say about the "Barca Paulinho" yet.
Regardless his age, he might be a good and valuable signing but it's also possible he will noit succeed in Barca. Too early to tell.

BTW, the Chinese league argument is fraud in itself, because it's too easy. If a world-class musician goes on a tour in a remote country, it doesn't mean he/she is losing qualities just because of that...

 

[Barcaman]

Right, it does not but there's little to say about the "Barca Paulinho" yet.
Regardless his age, he might be a good and valuable signing but it's also possible he will noit succeed in Barca. Too early to tell.

BTW, the Chinese league argument is fraud in itself, because it's too easy. If a world-class musician goes on a tour in a remote country, it doesn't mean he/she is losing qualities just because of that...

What qualities he lost? Being the worst signing in history of Tottenham?

 

[wisconsincule]

I'm too lazy to look but I thought we signed him to a 4 year contract, not 5? Regardless in principle this transfer stinks but at this point we've gotta get behind him. Maybe he's capable of putting in the Rakitic shift of 2015.... he obviously is capable of scoring goals. Had Pique passed to him in the Alaves match he most likely would have been on the scoresheet.

 

[Total-Football]

[MENTION=21136]Potroh[/MENTION]

I do agree with 90% of what you are saying, but the case here is that we are re-doing it multiple times.. This board signed way too many 29 year-old players. You can make a case for them competetiveness wise (i second this opinion too) but you should know more than anyone that a club is a company, with Financial obligations especially regarding investments. Look at the neymar case. we bought him, milked him by making the legendary attacking trio, won mad titles and finally sold him for 220 Millions ! you don't you think that age was the decisive variable here ? Now imagine if we had bought A 29 year-old Neymar, and everything went the same way, namely, the success on the pitch etc.. 4 years or 5 onwards, do you think we could get 220 Millions for a 34 year-old neymar ?

Sometimes, nothing is wrong with signing those in case of need, but when you are doing way too often, then you clearly give 0 fucks about the long term Financial sustainability of the club.

 

[Zuti]

Right, it does not but there's little to say about the "Barca Paulinho" yet.
Regardless his age, he might be a good and valuable signing but it's also possible he will noit succeed in Barca. Too early to tell.

BTW, the Chinese league argument is fraud in itself, because it's too easy. If a world-class musician goes on a tour in a remote country, it doesn't mean he/she is losing qualities just because of that...

You are doing it again, arguing one point,ignoring the whole.
Instead of looking at single trees, try and have a look at the forest instead.

 

[Potroh]

What qualities he lost? Being the worst signing in history of Tottenham?

I think he lost NO qualities (supposing he ever had very good qualities). You misunderstand what I tried to say.
Tottenham? Doesn't really matter now, and don't forget that Brazilians or South-Amercians generally could almost never succeed in Britain.
The PL is not really for that type of players...

 

[jamrock]

What qualities? The run very very long & shoot from very very far? That's worth 40m for a 29 year old from China these days?.

Pretty sure you could find a random player in Europe that does the same thing for less that is younger

 

[Devils]

Paulinho MIGHT come good actually. He looks solid and hardworking, something we definitely need. Thats a plus.

What is minus is that he is nearing his 30, and he is on 5yr contract. On top of that he was paid 40 FUCKING million. He simply cant do good enough for long enough for that to be considered smart buy. Should have gone for Fabinho. 7 years younger, could have gotten him for 50m max at start of the window.

Only hope we have now.

No one can argue that he hasn't been quality for Brazil in recent times. We have to hope that we get the Brazil version of him and not the Spurs one.

 

[Potroh]

This board signed way too many 29 year-old players.

Yes, I agree. But they could also sign Dembele.
This board is awful in making strategic decisions and they indeed seem to have no conceptional strategies in the long run.

You can make a case for them competetiveness wise (i second this opinion too) but you should know more than anyone that a club is a company, with Financial obligations especially regarding investments. Look at the neymar case. we bought him, milked him by making the legendary attacking trio, won mad titles and finally sold him for 220 Millions ! you don't you think that age was the decisive variable here ? Now imagine if we had bought A 29 year-old Neymar, and everything went the same way, namely, the success on the pitch etc.. 4 years or 5 onwards, do you think we could get 220 Millions for a 34 year-old neymar ?

Yes, in Neymar's case age was an importantly decisive factor, I agree.
Nevertheless his case was somehow unique (being the most liked and adored footballer and show-maker in South America). His signing was a good decision and just as you say, it even payed back financially. But I feel these handful of "superstars" cases are always a bit exceptional. But you are absolutely right.

I've never said that "age wouldn't matter", as it does but sometimes there are deeper considerations in play compared to the mere age of a player.
People tend to forget that "age" is a very different factor if we compare a goalkeeper, a defender, a midfielder or an attacker. Specific posts require specific skills and talents, some are more physical, some are not that much dependent on stamina or speed.
The Neymar type of player (which apart from the almost "static" tricks depends a lot on immediate acceleration and speed) will not be the same at 32, so you are right again: financially it was good for the club. The only problem is that it was not their conscious decision and they earned the money almost accidentally...

 

[Total-Football]

I think is [MENTION=21136]Potroh[/MENTION] is absolutely right about the fans overrating the age factor in judging the potential of a foot-ball team. He gave the example of the world cup performances from the 60's; well you may be skeptical and say that the physicality of the game was not at the same level in comparaison to nowdays. But 2015 is just two years ago, this is the team that almost won a treble, a team that gave us trouble in the champions league final. I will just post the respective ages of players which started for that Juve side:

37 - 31 - 34 - 28 - 34 - 29 - 36 - 22 - 28 - 31 - 22

6 players in their 30's already. 5 players in their 20's.

 

[gasgas]

I think is [MENTION=21136]Potroh[/MENTION] is absolutely right about the fans overrating the age factor in judging the potential of a foot-ball team. He gave the example of the world cup performances from the 60's; well you may be skeptical and say that the physicality of the game was not at the same level in comparaison to nowdays. But 2015 is just two years ago, this is the team that almost won a treble, a team that gave us trouble in the champions league final. I will just post the respective ages of players which started for that Juve side:

37 - 31 - 34 - 28 - 34 - 29 - 36 - 22 - 28 - 31 - 22

6 players in their 30's already. 5 players in their 20's.

None of them was bought for 40m from China

 

[God Serena]

- Regardless if you are right or wrong, a bunch of your posts clearly show that you are capable of writing pragmatic messages, with somehow logical reasoning, therefore it is absolutely unnecessary to name someone else an "idiot". It says nothing, apart from your own rude emotional state at the moment of writing. Hurting others is far from reasoning.

Once again, I wasn't actually calling him an idiot. I was making a very specific point that I guess you're simply incapable of comprehending. I made it so clear, too, but maybe you're just being willfully ignorant. Who knows.

- Times have changed, they always do, but we are chatting about football and not gymnastics, where the 25kg and 12 yrs old girls seem to have a definite advantage over "normal" humans, not coming out of an artificially created breed.
If you think someone is a demented fossil - just because he is above a certain age - you make the exact mistake of our age, namely that knowledge and experience means nothing, compared to the mere young age. If Indian, Japanese and quite a few other cultures still respect and admire age in itself, there is a reason behind that. You shouldn't be too "American" in this regard, even if this time they managed to elect a 70+ medical case as president.

What are you even talking about? We're talking about football, not respecting your elders. 29 year old players are rarely a better investment than players in their low to mid 20s. Experience (Especially from a player who's only experience is in fucking China) isn't as valuable as youth. Sorry. Who would you sign for your club, Iniesta, or Verratti? Ronaldinho, or Neymar? Adriano, or Grimaldo? Toure, or Kroos? Dembele, or Pedro? The Eastern civilizations can "respect and admire" age all they like, but you should probably stop pretending it's 30 year olds they're admiring and not senior citizens. Senior citizens who probably aren't competing on a top flight level in football, although I wouldn't be surprised if you disagree with that, too.

- I might be a "grandpa" regarding my age, but I lived my entire life among football players, which gives an advantage, perhaps by knowing them a tiny bit better than the average lurkers, who more or less watch the game as if it was a pancratium, and their opinions - with the beer in a hand in front of the TV - would represent ultimate truth and professional views.
Hence, if you knew these players as private humans or often as just ambitious sportsmen on the field, you would also know that "age" in itself means little. There are "fresh" players in their 30's and there are 22 yrs old "talents" who will never ever develop or play better.

I've lived my entire life playing the game too, bud. I may not have a professional career behind me but I live in America, where you're actively discouraged by clubs to even try to play on a higher level unless your parents have the cash, so go somewhere with your "beer in hand in front of the TV" bullshit and shove it. Who the hell are you to make judgments about me? You being a former pro doesn't make you better than anyone here, and it doesn't validate your opinion any more, either. Get off your fucking high horse, abuelo.

One consistent thing I've been able to recognize as a fan, a player, and a referee, is age *does* matter. Older players start to slow down. They lose their skill bit by bit. They decline. There's nothing that can be done when what was once a top class defender can no longer keep up with the young wingers who get faster and faster with the ball at their feet every season. Who cares if there are 30 year olds who can still perform and 22 year olds who can't? That's far from the norm and in most cases signing a younger player means they will be competing on a higher level for longer. Who the hell cares if Dos Santos isn't as good as Pirlo...

The 30+ Buffon, Ronaldo, Messi, Cavani and hordes of others can play just as good (if not better) as youngsters do, IF they psychologically speaking did not lose their actual ambitions, be it trophies, money, fame or anything else for that matter.
Try to absorb that average players in average teams always age faster (nothing to achieve anymore, no national teams or aims, etc.) whereas elder but charismatic players can easily extend their carriers for couple of years, if they have the inner urge and ambition.
A footballer ALWAYS starts to age in his head first.

You're listing TOP CLASS PLAYERS as examples, ffs. Is Paulinho a top class player? Is that what you're trying to say? If not you are speaking utter nonsense and arguing against a strawman.